Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel?

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SpinnerofTales -> Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 7:42:41 AM)
I have heard, read and seen many instances of what is called sub-frenzy, where a submissive, either just discovering the bdsm world or having resisted the desires they felt for a very long time, jumps into bad decisions due to desire to finally feel what they desire that overcomes caution and good sense. What I haven't seen discussed is a concept I have been calling 'subpanic" As I define it, subpanic is a reaction by a submissive, either just discovering their submissive needs or experiencing the real life fulfillment of these needs. They find that the experience is good, very good and very intense. The intensity scares them, either because it is unfamiliar or because they have fought against these needs for a very long time. As a result, they run from the situation and the person who led them into it. Now, I have discovered this (and not pleasantly) enough times to recognize it as a not uncommon reaction. My question is: have I missed the phenomenon under different terms or has this not been discussed to the point where a general term has been come up with for it? I would appreciate all input.

MaamJay -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 8:16:02 AM)
Well something similar has been discussed over on the Mistress forum sometimes, we tend to call them "poof boys" as in "Poof! and they're gone!" I do like the term subpanic though ... and have had a few "subs" do just that. One in particular, the connection was very strong and the play session very powerful, I was thinking "wow, maybe I've found what I've been looking for!" It was quite shattering when he panicked later and disappeared for quite a few months. When he surfaced he confessed to this overwhelming panic about how much he had enjoyed the scene and what he suddenly wanted for his life ... which didn't fit all the societal norms. However, there was severe erosion of trust by then and changed circumstances so he had to live with the consequences of that. Nice topic OP! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

lovingpet -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 8:40:59 AM)
Yup! And I'm guilty of it. I didn't run away, but I have and still do keep a lot of distance between me and accepting some things about myself. I am slowly coming down off the ceiling and getting to a point of greater understanding and peace with it all. I almost lost my partner over it because as I kept myself distanced from all this, I was also keeping him at arm's length as well. It is something that I am not proud of, but it is also a valuable part of my experience. I have never heard a term for it, but I think subpanic may fit very well. I don't think, however, that this is the only area of life in which something like this can happen. I find myself in this kind of position quite often. Any time one's choices and overriding passions fly in the face of societal conventions, there is a certain panic and even a sort of grieving period attached. I have had to grieve that I am never going to live this normal kind of "ideal" life that people judge as proper, best, or successful. I have to learn to redefine those things in my own terms. It would be good to have more awareness of this process so that people can ride it out with each other without all the negative feelings. I certainly understand them and have caused them and felt them from others in the past. I just think really getting a good handle on the idea that this is a pretty normal thing to go through would be helpful. If I were to be one of those MaamJay discussed I wouldn't be a "poof" girl. I would be a "puff" girl. I bristled up so to keep it all as far from me as I could until my own internal workings settled back down, like a cat that has been scared and cannot escape. Nice concept OP! lovingpet

leadership527 -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 8:47:30 AM)
I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy."

lovingpet -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 9:02:02 AM)
Exactly why I thought it important to point out that this occurs in other areas of life as well. I know things like vocation (or lack of a recognized "vocation"), political views, and more can bring a person to a very similar level of panic when it just doesn't line up at all with what is expected of us. Whether it should or not is really irrelavent. It is just a reality. Feelings are feelings and there is nothing wrong with them in and of themselves. It is how we respond to them that determines our character. I cannot blame an emotion for my behavior any more than I can shift my own accountability to another person. That I would find reprehensible. lovingpet

SerenityLuv -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 9:13:13 AM)
being new to it all as a sub. i can say that i sometimes feel overwhelmed by the vastness of it all. the lingo the different things that can be performed or expectations of the Dom. my thing is that i really just wnat to please my Dom in every way that it would be a huge personal let down if i mess up. i was told to relax and not over think. that is what might scare some ppl off is their own selfdought and fear of failing. i trust my Dom comletely and dont feel the urge to run anywhere but instead want to be by his side when ever i get the chance.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 9:14:35 AM)
quote: I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." ORIGINAL: leadership527 I would tend to agree if one lets the term become a separator from general human experience. Such things can be a useful shorthand. I would say, in this case for example, that you'd find parallels in any case where people stray off their beaten path. I am sure that there are a lot of gay people who, embracing their sexuality for the first time run off after showing strong positive reactions to a first situation or first number of situations. I don't so much think that putting a name to it excuses dumb-assed behavior. And as someone who just found themselves on the wrong end of it I can tell you it doesn't make it any easier. It just gives a shorthand for one possible reason for the dumb-assed behavior so it can be understood.

vield -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 9:16:13 AM)
There are and will be discussions of terms and definitions like this as long as we have boards like this. One problem is that sometimes we do not discuss the situation (as you did) but instead just create a new term in our own jargon to cover what we have found. A lot of people finding that they have an interest in kink will go through a period of approach and avoidance. Their interests draw them to whatever, then their fears and guilts cause them to run away. There are MANY reasons for this. Some of the most common are interests which violate taboos we have learned, whether these be religious, cultural, behavioral or political. Often the person is shocked that they personally might be "one of those..." This happens to dominants, subs and switches. It happens to people of all genders and many different diversities of interests. It does NOT happen to everyone. In some cases the guilt/shame is so bad people burn their collections of books and pictures and movies, people destroy or throw away expensive toys of many sorts. Then if they need to come back to their interests, they cut themselves down for having done that. There are times that we get very attracted to real and strong cultural taboos. A strong woman whose life has been filled with fighting for women's rights can feel horror that she has a slave fantasy or a rape fantasy. A black person may be shocked to be attracted by a "mandigo" fantasy about the slave times. A Jewish person might be terribly torn up by her fantasy of being an SS guard using and abusing concentration camp prisoners. An rape or incest survivor may have fantasies of being a victim again, or even of being the abuser. There is probably close to an infinite number of examples like these. If something IS too heavy to deal with, maybe getting out of the situation is the best option. Sometimes playing through a fantasy can be healing, other times it can be the opposite. My thought is that we need to be aware of potential "landmine" type tramas. We need to keep good communications open with our partners. This may not keep something of this sort from happening, but may enable us to help our partner get through this. In my own case, I know that these were aspects of post-traumatic stress that hit me. In some cases, something which was great with another person was very bad with someone else, even though I thought it would also be great.

SubOnlyForHim -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 9:19:02 AM)
quote: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." HEY! i resemble that remark! [sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif] ETA... Not truly. After a wonderful weekend and some much needed communication between Sir and me, frenzy has passed.

Golden614 -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 10:06:49 AM)
I'm a commitment-phobe. Or used to be anyway, for a little over 6 years. In the vanilla world, I searched out pseudo-relationships with some really amazing well-adjusted men. I can't think of one example where the gentleman in question was anything but wonderful, intelligent and kind. But the minute they showed more than a casual interest, I would panic. Sooo terribly cliche, I know, but it really wasn't them, it was just me. I guess I didn't really know what I wanted, or maybe I wanted all of the benefits of a romantic involvement but none of the responsibility. Sometimes I blame my age, or past experiences. But nothing really makes it okay. It wasn't until I took a long hard look at myself and figured out what i wanted (i.e. a D/s, M/s relationship) and accepted my submissiveness that I was able to settle down and enter into a relationship for more than two weeks. This kind of behavior occurs in all areas of life when someone is unsure of who they are and what they want, not just romantically and not just this lifestyle. It isn't exclusive to any one specific group of people. It's that fear of the reality of a commitment to one human being or job or purchasing that house or getting that dog. The vulnerability, the loss of the freedom of answering to no one but yourself, the possibilty of being hurt or looking back and realizing you made a mistake or missed out on something, having a new responsibility that you can not, or can not easily, walk away from. It is, and should be, a huge thing to really commit to any major life decision. For a new sub, it may be a case of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't," that it was just this lifestyle that caused them to run, but I'd take a look at his/her history before I gave the person any other title outside of plain ol' commitment-phobe.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 10:22:08 AM)
I'm sure there are cases of sub-panic, just like there are gays who, after finding out that they are, deny it and and freak out about it for awhile before accepting who they are, if they ever do. Me? I had massive sub-frenzy for a few months and then settled down into sanity, but I never had sub-panic. What I did have was an overwhelming sense of having "come home," that feeling that it is what I had been waiting for all my life but I didnt' know it. I guess I missed the panic, happily.

RCdc -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 10:30:20 AM)
It's not new and it isn't restricted to s-types and it happens quite often - it's part of life and not restricted to BDSM activities. the.dark.

Acer49 -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 10:40:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales I have heard, read and seen many instances of what is called sub-frenzy, where a submissive, either just discovering the bdsm world or having resisted the desires they felt for a very long time, jumps into bad decisions due to desire to finally feel what they desire that overcomes caution and good sense. What I haven't seen discussed is a concept I have been calling 'subpanic" As I define it, subpanic is a reaction by a submissive, either just discovering their submissive needs or experiencing the real life fulfillment of these needs. They find that the experience is good, very good and very intense. The intensity scares them, either because it is unfamiliar or because they have fought against these needs for a very long time. As a result, they run from the situation and the person who led them into it. Now, I have discovered this (and not pleasantly) enough times to recognize it as a not uncommon reaction. My question is: have I missed the phenomenon under different terms or has this not been discussed to the point where a general term has been come up with for it? I would appreciate all input. I maybe wrong but what I think you are describing may be what a submissive means when they make a statement about "losing one'self"

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 11:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." EXACTLY!!!

agirl -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 11:46:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Now, I have discovered this (and not pleasantly) enough times to recognize it as a not uncommon reaction. My question is: have I missed the phenomenon under different terms or has this not been discussed to the point where a general term has been come up with for it? I would appreciate all input. *No, you haven't missed this phenomenon under a special name.......there is a name for it, it's simply called panic. Shall we just continue to call it thus?* agirl

CreativeDominant -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 12:37:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." But you see leadership, many times it is exactly that---D/s and/or BDSM---that separates what a submissive or a dominant is feeling from "regular" humans. Take the term suggested by the OP...subpanic. I'm not a trained linguist but I could see it being defined in this manner---subpanic: A feeling of anxiety and fear that arises out of circumstances that have shown the afflicted person that they desire something outside the socially accepted norm. The state of subpanic can range from a mild feeling of unease..."I liked that...I actually liked being told what to do by my partner" to "Oh My God...I actually liked being told to bend over to receive a spanking, I did it, and I LOVED the spanking...I loved being hurt. Wait...that is just SOOOOOOOOOOO wrong!!!!! I can't do this..." It is not just a case of a person entering into or beginning a relationship with someone and finding that everything just flows so smoothly in comparison to past relationships and developing anxiety over that...it is the D/s and/or BDSM itself that leads to the anxiety.

agirl -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 1:54:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." But you see leadership, many times it is exactly that---D/s and/or BDSM---that separates what a submissive or a dominant is feeling from "regular" humans. Take the term suggested by the OP...subpanic. I'm not a trained linguist but I could see it being defined in this manner---subpanic: A feeling of anxiety and fear that arises out of circumstances that have shown the afflicted person that they desire something outside the socially accepted norm. The state of subpanic can range from a mild feeling of unease..."I liked that...I actually liked being told what to do by my partner" to "Oh My God...I actually liked being told to bend over to receive a spanking, I did it, and I LOVED the spanking...I loved being hurt. Wait...that is just SOOOOOOOOOOO wrong!!!!! I can't do this..." It is not just a case of a person entering into or beginning a relationship with someone and finding that everything just flows so smoothly in comparison to past relationships and developing anxiety over that...it is the D/s and/or BDSM itself that leads to the anxiety. But it's still just * panic*. Let's rename every feeling and action that pertains to a sub or a dom because of a situation they're in. Second thoughts , let's not. agirl

CreativeDominant -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 4:26:57 PM)
It's not every situation that's being renamed, agirl and the use of terms specific to D/s and BDSM is purely your choice. But an understanding of whether or not it is the relationship that is affecting someone or the dynamic that is could be considered helpful to others who like to separate the two while understanding that they are entwined.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 5:36:47 PM)
quote: But it's still just * panic*. Let's rename every feeling and action that pertains to a sub or a dom because of a situation they're in. Second thoughts , let's not. agirl ORIGINAL: agirl Wow...that's harsh. All I wanted was to come up with a neat new term like subfrenzy :grin:. Seriously, though I think a term for the discomfort and fear one might have when first accepting just how good it feels to stop fighting the societal norm in favor of an alternate sexuality of any kind. In a broader sense, such a term would probably encompass the fear/avoidance of BDSMers, transvestites (though not transsexuals, that is a different matter entirely), homosexuals, lesbians, etc. I think in the case of d/s it might have even further complications as people worry about the possible effects on their affectional preference on the rest of their life (How can I be a submissive, I'm a middle management superstar! or How can I be a Dom, I don't want to be a girlfriend beater!). In all these cases, the root problem, difference from fear of commitment or just plain panic is that the core problem is the difficulty in coming to terms with being a "sexual outlaw" outside of that the society considers and what the individuals have been taught is "normal". Just an opinion. 'Sides...I still want to come up with a trendy term that gets wide use....after all...someone is probably still getting royalties for Smart Assed Maschocist.

slaveluci -> RE: Subpanic - Am I Reinventing the Wheel? (9/28/2009 7:53:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I guess for me, I am wary of all these specialized BDSM terms. Generally, they strike me as somewhat pompous... a way to feel different than the rest of humanity who also experiences these very same feelings. In addition, I feel like the more we distinguish subs & doms from humans, the more we open the door to dumb-assed behavior on their part that becomes excusable, eg: "She's not an idiot, she just has sub frenzy." [sm=bowdown.gif]Yes and OMG don't they use that excuse[8\|] I loathe the concept..........luci

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