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RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 6:27:23 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

LA's careless and flip attitude towards something which I and others hold sacrosanct.

IronBear


Here i agree with You; a mistake/error in judgment/whatever was made by reducing the Roman Catholic Church in the analogy. Lapsed, birth, or devote, the Church holds special meaning for millions around the world and deserves to be treated as a first-class religion.

candystripper

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 6:29:29 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

My apologies to the Pagan and Wiccan members, I am not as well read on those religions as the more * traditional * ones. So if I missed a March holiday feel free to add to the list.

mbmbn


*signs up for mbmn's Comparative Religion class*

candystripper

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 6:31:05 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Obviously I interpreted it differently than you meant it. I really should stop reading the boards when I'm home sick with a nasty head cold (then again, what else is there to do when you're cooped up at home with a nasty head cold? nap time!) :)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 6:43:04 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

there are some Christians who hold fast to the belief that Catholics aren't Christians! I remember seeing religious tracts in a cartoon form that stated all the reasons why Catholics aren't Christians (Madonna worship, for one...can't recall the others) and these are distributed far and wide by some of the more strident Christian sects. To my way of thinking the dolphin/human analogy is significantly less offensive than distributing such propoganda.

MsIncognito


Now THIS is what i would call strident, in-your-face anti-Catholic bias.

candystripper

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 7:27:55 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Thanks for explaining, though I will honestly admit I'm still not sure why an erroneous analogy would cause such agita but I won't argue that you shouldn't be offended. LA isn't the only one who thinks Catholics aren't Christians - there are some Christians who hold fast to the belief that Catholics aren't Christians! I remember seeing religious tracts in a cartoon form that stated all the reasons why Catholics aren't Christians (Madonna worship, for one...can't recall the others) and these are distributed far and wide by some of the more strident Christian sects. To my way of thinking the dolphin/human analogy is significantly less offensive than distributing such propoganda.


I attended a Luthran school, called The Pawtucket Christian Day School from second grade to when I was expelled in the fifth grade. Huge amounts of school time was taken up by religious studies and bible reading [the latter is not a good idea when the student has an active and curious mind]. Anyway there was a lot of anti-Catholic teaching including the curious concept that it was ok to fight with Catholics as long as the aim was to "correct their mistake." My strongest memory is of a pamphlet about heaven and hell. On the cover it showed St Peter with a flaming sword standing at the crossroads. One road went up to heaven the other, down to hell. All the people on the upward road were nice, white middle class Americans, the men in hats and the women in dresses. On the other road were twisted dark people (not clearly negroid but darker than the ones on the upward road.) Some them had the kind of noses so beloved of Gobbels in his propoganda. Clearly recognizable were Hitler, Mussolini and a guy in papal robes and a mitered hat.

Oh, that kind of prejudice was very very real.

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RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 7:57:35 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

there are some Christians who hold fast to the belief that Catholics aren't Christians! I remember seeing religious tracts in a cartoon form that stated all the reasons why Catholics aren't Christians (Madonna worship, for one...can't recall the others) and these are distributed far and wide by some of the more strident Christian sects. To my way of thinking the dolphin/human analogy is significantly less offensive than distributing such propoganda.

MsIncognito




Now THIS is what i would call strident, in-your-face anti-Catholic bias.

candystripper


Born and raised Catholic here, though since have changed my own thoughts and beliefs.

Every year I purchase my grandmother some books about a saint or the Pope. One year I entered a Christian bookstore searching for a book about a newly cannonized saint that started out his religious service in my grandmother's parish. When I asked the clerk, who was also a minister, about the book she replied "we only have Christian books here". After a moment of shock that a person of religious studies would make such a statement, I assured her that Catholics were in fact classified and Christian and left the store.

It's my opinion with the plethora of churches that spring up everywhere and have no "old time" religious affiliation or denomination, i.e. Baptist, Church of Christ, Evangelical, Lutheran etc. and simply call themselves Christian, the definition of the word has become somewhat blurred. Christian encompasses every person that believes JC to be the son of God and the savior of man.

Oh, and about Lent. When I was a practicing Catholic, I would give up something that was bad for me. Now, say I gave up smoking. I didn't just give up smoking, I also donated the $ I would have spent on cigarettes to a charity. For me it was not all about denying myself something, but also helping someone else.




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(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 8:14:15 AM   
MHOO314


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

LA's careless and flip attitude towards something which I and others hold sacrosanct.

IronBear


Here i agree with You; a mistake/error in judgment/whatever was made by reducing the Roman Catholic Church in the analogy. Lapsed, birth, or devote, the Church holds special meaning for millions around the world and deserves to be treated as a first-class religion.

candystripper



It is MHO that anyone's spiritual beliefs should be treated with respect--Buddhist's do not know of the "Church" yet have deep spiritual beliefs that govern their behavior---as do many differing cultures--I am a Wiccan--I would challenge that My spiritual beliefs governing My actions are as deep seated as any "Christian" or non- Christian with life governing beliefs and hence are not "second class"-- I do not demean or belittle anyone with those leanings, I give credence to all, not selected groups.

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Mistress Hathor


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 8:21:25 AM   
MsIncognito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Now THIS is what i would call strident, in-your-face anti-Catholic bias.



I'm confused. Do you mean my POV or the distribution of those tracts? IMO, those things border on hate literature despite the fact that those who distribute them believe they are just trying to help Catholics see the error of their ways. They do it because they really love Catholics and want them to go to heaven, you know (where is that eye rolling smiley when you need one?)

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 8:22:35 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

the Church holds special meaning for millions around the world and deserves to be treated as a first-class religion.


Perhaps for some. For me, I will always have a deep hesitation regarding the Catholic Church. As an institution it made a practice of hiding/denying/transferring known pedophiles. I can't respect that stand. And it makes me very uncomfortable as a parent of two boys who attended Catholic school during their elementary years.

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(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 8:53:21 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

It is MHO that anyone's spiritual beliefs should be treated with respect--Buddhist's do not know of the "Church" yet have deep spiritual beliefs that govern their behavior---as do many differing cultures--I am a Wiccan--I would challenge that My spiritual beliefs governing My actions are as deep seated as any "Christian" or non- Christian with life governing beliefs and hence are not "second class"-- I do not demean or belittle anyone with those leanings, I give credence to all, not selected groups.

MHOO314


Ma'am, that is what i had intended to say. Whether one's religion is old as Man Himself, such as Paganism, and Wiccan, or is led by a living, breathing person, i respect the religion & its practitioners unless it takes on the "cult" appearance. Brainwashing, for example.

candystripper

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 9:18:13 AM   
incognitoinmass


Posts: 428
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Many religions have similar concepts of denial or fasting. It is considered cleansing. When we deny ourselves things we enjoy, we strenghten our own will so we do not become slaves to the things we like. This exercise helps strengthen us spiritually. It makes us sacrifice.

Of course, I doubt that giving up things like 'chocolate cake' or 'sweets' will get you there --spiritually speaking.

_____________________________

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 9:49:08 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


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Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Whether one's religion is old as Man Himself, such as Paganism, and Wiccan,


Pagan religions and witchcraft itself are ancient. Wicca, as we know it, is fairly new. It cropped up just this past century in fact, with the help of Gerald Gardner, Doreen Valiente, Aleister Crowley (dubious though the reference is), and countless others in an effort to bring back the old, but in part lost, rites of nature-adoring pagan religions, all while bringing themselves closer to the concept of the divine (in this case the Lord and Lady).

Edited to add: While some of the ideas and means of worship are as old as the earth we walk on, Wicca in its current form is not.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 3/3/2006 9:50:22 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 9:55:19 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

LOL my analogy wasn't trying to say that catholics aren't christians. I was trying to say that yes, catholics are one of the many types of christians out there, just like dolphins are one of the many types of mammals out there.

But when you're talking about a specific type of mammal, bringing up the fact that it belongs in an overarching class of things known as "mammals" isn't really the point. I was trying to get ideas on how people viewed catholicism versus christianity in general/other types of christians, when it came to the concept of Lent/overt ritual sacrifice.


That's where your analogy was flawed. Under the general class of mammals, both humans and dolphins reside. Under the general class of religion, Christianity, Judism, Paganism etc reside. Under the general class of Christianity, Catholics, Lutherns, Presbyterians etc reside. Under the general class of human, dolphins do not reside. One is apples and oranges, the other is just different brands of apples.

'The overarching class of things known as mammals isn't really the point' ... however, you are the one who brought it up. I agree with you, to do so was pointless.

Celeste

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 10:23:28 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitoinmass

Many religions have similar concepts of denial or fasting. It is considered cleansing. When we deny ourselves things we enjoy, we strenghten our own will so we do not become slaves to the things we like. This exercise helps strengthen us spiritually. It makes us sacrifice.

Of course, I doubt that giving up things like 'chocolate cake' or 'sweets' will get you there --spiritually speaking.


As I read various religions, "denial," for it to work, must be the giving up something someone wants for the sheer appreciation of giving it up. Having a secondary motive like "I'll save a lot of money" or "I'll lose some weight" or even "This will help me get into heaven" pretty much negates the spiritual benefit one will obtain.

Me, personally? I'm a hedonistic sensualist. Pass the chocolate covered submissives.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 10:29:45 AM   
incognitoinmass


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quote:

Me, personally? I'm a hedonistic sensualist. Pass the chocolate covered submissives.




_____________________________

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 10:40:59 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		I'm Christian, but I don't belong to any particular church. However, as IronBear pointed out, giving up something for Lent is part of the Anglican Church, which I grew up with. So, yes, I like to give things up for Lent. No one asks me to, I just like to do it.

I get a lot out of it as a practice. Sometimes, it's good to give up something you want to do. You can get a lot out of it ~ depending on the reasons you're doing it, and whether what you're giving up is something that is beneficial or overall harmful to your life in general.

(in reply to incognitoinmass)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 11:04:02 AM   
RubberWitch


Posts: 1368
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline 		I had the pancakes, so I should do the lent. It was supposed to be a no confectionary thing. I broke it twice without even realising.

I'm not Christian (well, i'm allfaith, but just not Christian in particular). I just appreciate periods of abstinance between indulgeances

]v[

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 12:24:18 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

Pass the chocolate covered submissives.


::wonders if here are either cherries or nuts with those or if it matters::

;)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 12:48:53 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

Pass the chocolate covered submissives.


::wonders if here are either cherries or nuts with those or if it matters::

;)

Celeste


LMAO,

*and then thinks about the choc covered strawberries she dipped last night.*

See you all later, I have left over chocolate, all I need now are cherries and mmmm bananas!!!!

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Lent! - 3/3/2006 1:23:29 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Y'know I'm happy when I read this thread. There was a stage where I was some what unhappy (well I guess that was obvious). Look at what is happeniong now, we are all sharing our feelings and beliefs without any fear or animosity or even without niping at others.... Just dont you think that this is such a great way for a family to live together????????

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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