What is it about verbal abuse? (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 3:59:44 PM)

I've seen the view often, by now, from femdoms.  It goes something like "I don't get it.  Why would I want to abuse a man in this way if I like him/love him?"  Yet, many of the same femdoms will happily set about the same man's back with their whips or floggers until it's lacerated into a nasty messy pulp.  Now, what I don't get is - why is there a difference?  Both are forms of 'abuse'.  And in wider vanilla society, as we all know, physical attacks on a person are considered worse than verbal attacks.

So what's the squeamishness all about?  Why don't you femdoms get in there and do your worst with those cutting tongues?   Or are you, when it comes down to it, milksops and girly weeds, after all?



AAkasha -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:04:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've seen the view often, by now, from femdoms.  It goes something like "I don't get it.  Why would I want to abuse a man in this way if I like him/love him?"  Yet, many of the same femdoms will happily set about the same man's back with their whips or floggers until it's lacerated into a nasty messy pulp.  Now, what I don't get is - why is there a difference?  Both are forms of 'abuse'.  And in wider vanilla society, as we all know, physical attacks on a person are considered worse than verbal attacks.

So what's the squeamishness all about?  Why don't you femdoms get in there and do your worst with those cutting tongues?   Or are you, when it comes down to it, milksops and girly weeds, after all?


If you are talking about all the "worthless worm, you pathetic idiot LOSER" type talk/attitude, that's quite different from a little cruel, appropriately placed and timed "delicious meanness" which I happily dish out.  It's all about intent and context.  Just the same as a slap across the face, in the context of consensual S&M can be HOT, but kicking a random guy in the nuts out of pure disgust isn't something a lot of femdoms line up for.

That's my impression of what you are getting at, at least.

Akasha



PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:15:15 PM)

Akasha,

Noooo - not "worm".  Anything but "worm".  I'd just cringe at that hideous D/s cliche . . . .  But  "a little cruel, appropriately placed and timed "delicious meanness" " is exactly what I'm talking about.  Words used for the same effect on the sub as would be physical acts like a quick flick with the whip.   Yet, femdoms do seem a lot happier to swing that cane than they do to throw an insult.  That does seem odd to me. 

Generalisation coming:  I must say, I have a feeling that it might be because, for women, words feel more aggressive - plain nastier - than physical acts.  Of course it's not the same for men . . .



AAkasha -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:24:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Akasha,

Noooo - not "worm".  Anything but "worm".  I'd just cringe at that hideous D/s cliche . . . .  But  "a little cruel, appropriately placed and timed "delicious meanness" " is exactly what I'm talking about.  Words used for the same effect on the sub as would be physical acts like a quick flick with the whip.   Yet, femdoms do seem a lot happier to swing that cane than they do to throw an insult.  That does seem odd to me. 

Generalisation coming:  I must say, I have a feeling that it might be because, for women, words feel more aggressive - plain nastier - than physical acts.  Of course it's not the same for men . . .


In my experience, women are less likely to experiment with verbal stuff because they feel silly or stupid saying things.  But I don't think it is as rare as you may assume.  For experienced femdoms, I think verbal cruelty is just part of the mix.  For new femdoms, there's the uncertainty of what to say or how to say it, or worrying about coming off sounding lame. 

I also think that acts of topping or dominance are enjoyable to femdoms because of the reactions you get from the man.  You don't get as much physical response from verbal torment.  It's psychological.  So there's no immediate feedback, like the gasp of breath when a man is in pain, or his body moving against or toward sensation, etc.  With pain, there's an immediate reaction that can be measured and absorbed.  Verbal cruelty often is met with a blank stare or a head bowed in shame or simply nothing - or something hard to read. 

Verbal cruelty is something I do purely for myself and not so much for the reaction, and I think it comes naturally if I am just in that mood and it feels good.  I like to feel lke a sexy villianess and talking in an affectionate yet cruel way. It pushes some buttons and helps me be more cruel physically. But it's a mood thing - sometimes I don't really feel like saying much at all.

Akasha



Venatrix -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:27:59 PM)

I don't understand how you can make that generalisation.  Lots of femdoms have insulted subs on these very boards, and we aren't even in a relationship with them.



PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:34:25 PM)

All right,V.  You got me there.  Well done.   [:D]



SthrnCom4t -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:37:19 PM)

For me there is a big difference between degradation and humiliation. I'm not about the 'worm' concept either. I don't like it in any exchange...call it a personal limit. That said, I love verbal....including exchanges. Just ask Otter about his rendition of "Old MacDonald's Farm" while we did an outdoor scene at DragonFest. Anyone walking past our camp got to see him blindfolded, tied and bent over a swing, being swatted with a slapper, and singing at the top of his lungs. He was completely enthusiastic about making the sounds of a 'various' animals....including ones I chose for him. I mean, what noise does a bunny make? Especially when he knew I expected something VERY vocal.....lol. I got to laughing so hard, I couldn't breathe.

Today, I got a beautiful rendition of "Red, red Rose", while he was on bended knee, after inhaling Helium from a balloon. He's such a sport to do this in his shop in front of our friends.

On another and more serious note, I have great appreciation for Dominants that have the creativity for a finely timed verbal injection. It's something I'm working myself, as it can really take things up several notches.

Off to Denver and dinner with friends,
N



Politesub53 -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:40:39 PM)

What noise does a rabbit make ? ........Bzzzzzzzz

Errr allegedly [:)]



PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 4:58:24 PM)

That all makes sense, A.  I can see that, from a woman's position. 

For new femdoms, there's the uncertainty of what to say or how to say it, or worrying about coming off sounding lame.
 
Yes, I can understand that.  I think - as a submale - the line between laughable and really hurtful is quite thin.  Ditch "worm" and similar words because they're hoary old cliches from bad femdom porn flicks.  But, for me, also ditch "your penis is pathetic, you're no real man" and similar because it would sound equally silly.  It might work on a very young man, but not one who's been around the block a bit. 

It must take a lot of skill - if your aim is to inflict some damage, but not too much.  You'd need to know the man very well. 

I once watched a documentary about a D/s brothel in the US.  In this, clients would be required to fill in a very, very detailed questionnaire about various insults and how they felt about them.  This part of the initial interview, in fact, took longer than any other part, so delicate a matter it was.  A rabbi was one of the clients in question.  He wanted to be abused, verbally, by a woman acting as a Gestapo officer.  You might imagine that that particular interview lasted a very, very long time.  The difference between what was, for him, a 'silly insult', and something that would turn him into an enraged basher, was very tiny indeed.

But I also take the point about 'immediate reactions'.  I can appreciate that a femdom is going to prefer an immediate "Ouch, that hurt!" from a sub to a silent frown that slowly grows to a "You fucking bitch!" when she's not expecting it.  Yes, that makes sense. 



LookieNoNookie -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 6:08:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've seen the view often, by now, from femdoms.  It goes something like "I don't get it.  Why would I want to abuse a man in this way if I like him/love him?"  Yet, many of the same femdoms will happily set about the same man's back with their whips or floggers until it's lacerated into a nasty messy pulp.  Now, what I don't get is - why is there a difference?  Both are forms of 'abuse'.  And in wider vanilla society, as we all know, physical attacks on a person are considered worse than verbal attacks.

So what's the squeamishness all about?  Why don't you femdoms get in there and do your worst with those cutting tongues?   Or are you, when it comes down to it, milksops and girly weeds, after all?


(Most of them throw like girls).



undergroundsea -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (9/30/2009 10:58:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

What noise does a rabbit make ? ........Bzzzzzzzz

Errr allegedly [:)]


;-)

I was wondering the same thing. I did not think of such modern interpretations and the best I could come up with was, "What's up Doc?"

Cheers,

Sea



MsStarlett -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 4:20:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So what's the squeamishness all about?  Why don't you femdoms get in there and do your worst with those cutting tongues?


Because you get all pissy when I do that.  Remember???

Because you have to 'tred lightly' and know the boy extremely well to push his buttons in that manner.  My Wall-e loves verbal abuse and humiliation.  He enjoys it when I belittle his body, his manhood, his 'filthy, perverted' desires.  He craves to be called my slut, bitch or whore.  However, I made one flip comment about cheating on his wife and it was like I had dumped a bucket of ice water on him.  The entire mood was gone in an instant and the scene was pretty much over.

For verbal abuse to be effective, it has to have a shade of truth in it... at least in the eye of the sub.  However, the Domme cannot cross over the line into the areas that cause the boy TRUE pain and humiliation.  It's like walking a tight rope.  As per above, Wall-e wants to be called "whore" but not "cheater".  He WANTS to have sex with me, but he does not do that as his own justification that our BDSM contact is not truely adulterism because there is no sexual activity with his penis.  Anything else is ok.  Therefore, I can reference the verbal abuse toward his dark desires, but have to stay away from the fact that he's sneaking around getting naked with another woman while telling his wife "I love you" on the phone.

Peon, you have often said that you like humiliation, but have a list of words and situations that are not allowed.  When in the heat of passion, it's rather difficult to keep all the dos and don'ts straight in one's head.  Some of those things that a Domme truely DOES feel (like sneaking is cheating) could come out wheither it is on the forbidden list or not.  Therefore, it's frequently best to keep one's mouth shut beyond the obvious "Worm, Filthy Dog, Slut, Bitch".  Are you starting to understand how tricky it is?






fadedshadow -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 4:32:41 AM)

i didn't realize this until i experienced it myself but i really enjoy the humiliation aspect to playing. she knows i'm a bit emotionally sensitive so it doesn't take much to bring me to tears during a beating. she knows i have held a lot of hurt inside me and bringing me to where i'm crying helps release a lot of that =]



PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 8:44:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So what's the squeamishness all about?  Why don't you femdoms get in there and do your worst with those cutting tongues?


quote:

Because you get all pissy when I do that.  Remember???


Yes, but at the time it didn't look like you were playing - it just looked like you were throwing out a bunch of insults because you yourself were in a pissy mood about something.  I didn't know what was going on.  I couldn't find out, either, because you'd stopped talking privately with me at the time. 

quote:

Peon, you have often said that you like humiliation, but have a list of words and situations that are not allowed. 


What list?  I'm fairly sure I haven't made one because I haven't actually thought very much about verbal abuse as a subject - beyond my key query, above, about why verbal abuse is considered worse by (many, most, whatever) femdoms than physical abuse.  All I really know, from my point of view as a sub, is that it a) has to be (seen to be) happening within the context of a D/s dynamic and b) that, as you say, it can get very tricky the nearer you get to a sub's emotional vulnerabilities.

quote:

Therefore, it's frequently best to keep one's mouth shut beyond the obvious "Worm, Filthy Dog, Slut, Bitch". 


Nooooo, please, please, not "worm"!  But, on the whole, for me and if these suit the domme, what the hell, go right ahead . . .[;)]



LadyHibiscus -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 8:53:28 AM)

You cannot unsay things.

I don't care how much you think you want to be humiliated, degrated, whatever, there is that fine line where you just don't KNOW if the game has bled over into reality.   My playmate can call me a fucking bitch after a really great cane strike, and I will laugh like a maniac---context, eh?  And, hey, I know what I am capable of. [;)]   What if I started to speak freely?  What if I started to let out all my criticisms and hidden resentments that I never speak aloud, what if I channelled all the disgust that I feel toward so many men in his direction, just because he's there?

Could he get up afterward and still trust me?  Could he still be my friend?  Maybe.  I'm just not willing to take that chance, because *I know what I am capable of*. 




PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 9:17:30 AM)

Those points are food for serious thought and I shall ponder them carefully, Fishface.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 9:18:31 AM)

{wails}  see how mean you are!  I cannot do fishface because of my birth defect!!

Peon is MEAN!  MEH!!!  MEHHHHHHH!!!!



PeonForHer -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 9:21:25 AM)

Hah! "Meh" doesn't work any more.  I've decided I like it.

What birth defect, anyway - apart from that of being born female?



Venatrix -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 9:22:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

MEH!!!  MEHHHHHHH!!!!


And don't forget "cute," "adorable," "precious," etc.  Don't worry, Lady Hib, we'll have the little twerp begging for mercy in no time.



Lashra -> RE: What is it about verbal abuse? (10/1/2009 9:25:27 AM)

quote:

What birth defect, anyway - apart from that of being born female?


All humans start out as female then they mutate...yes mutate into male. Peon your a mutation hun and lets not even discuss that third eye....[:D]

I have no problem dishing out the verbal or physical "abuse" it comes rather natural to me. My sub once said he didn't know which cut more, my words or my flogger but he loves both.

~Lashra



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