RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (Full Version)

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ArtCatDom -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/1/2009 11:05:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I think religion should be kept totally out of politics. Also Democrats and Republicans should be too.


Well, the only people that could make that happen would be the Democrats and the Republicans, so guess what?


Oh, all it takes is for people to stop playing the lesser of two evils game and stop buying into the self-defeatist throwing votes away excuse for refusing to vote for a non-Republicrat. Now mind you, that's probably on par with the likelihood of the Earth suddenly stopping its rotation, but still...




ArtCatDom -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/1/2009 11:10:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Myself I would be perfectly happy to have a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, pagan, or atheist as Prime Minister. A politician's religion has never been an issue to me, and it has never been much of an issue to the country as a whole, why is it such a big deal in the US?


I'll be flip and say it is because Canada was mainly founded by Catholics, Anglicans, and Presbyterians while America was largely founded by radical dissenters, such as Puritans, Quakers, and so on.






Kirata -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/1/2009 11:37:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Well now, we have a fundamentalist Christian PM now, he's in his second mandate now, and he's doing a pretty decent job. Like I said he hasn't tried to do anything bizarre like replace evolution with creation science in the classrooms yet, nor has he tried to reinstate the death penalty, in fact he's done nothing to further a religious agenda whatsoever. This is why i wonder why it makes any difference, the man's job is to govern for the betterment of the entire country, according to the general expressed will of the electorate, within the mandate provided by his party's platform. And that's just what he does. Is there any reason to believe it would be any different in the US?

Because the US is filled with paranoid conspiracy theorists.

nota bene: Posting error above, that quote is not Panda.

K.




HatesParisHilton -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/1/2009 11:37:34 PM)

what, no love for the "Bigamist Believing in Invisible Tablets of Gold" Guys?

Jesus (literally) peeps, C'MON.

you folks DO know that about HALF the hot Goth and Kink chicks in Seattle and SF are ex-mormon chicks, right?

DON'T you wanna feather yer own Nad Nests with such Tasty-Nasty Yum Yums?

Plus, are any of you Sandman Fans? (as in Neil's Ladder of Success)?

Hey, about Death, little sister to Dream?  (The one so many kink girls try to be and many kink guys WANT them to be?) She was based on a WACKO chick.  hardcore Goth, over 100 safety pins in her hide.

GUESS which city she (the real woman) hailed from?  (hint:  it was very "Salty")
GUESS what "Faith" she was born into"

c'mon, you DON'T wanna have a Pres with a daughter like THAT instead of the bimbonic Stepford Sisters from a pseudo Born Again (Failed) Oil Baron?

what kind of Kinksters ARE you??

BWAHHHHHH HAWWWW HAAA NHAWWWWWWWWW!




rulemylife -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/2/2009 5:37:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

This is why i wonder why it makes any difference, the man's job is to govern for the betterment of the entire country, according to the general expressed will of the electorate, within the mandate provided by his party's platform. And that's just what he does. Is there any reason to believe it would be any different in the US?


Yes.


Bush says God chose him to lead his nation | World news | The Observer


President George W. Bush stood before a cheering crowd at a Dallas Christian youth centre last week, and told them about being 'born again' as a Christian.

'If you change their heart, then they change their behaviour. I know,' he said, referring to his own conversion, which led to him giving up drinking.

Behind Bush were two banners. 'King of Kings', proclaimed one. 'Lord of Lords', said the other. The symbolism of how fervent Christianity has become deeply entwined with the most powerful man on the planet could not have been stronger.

Few US Presidents have been as openly religious as Bush. Now a new book has lifted the lid on how deep those Christian convictions run. It will stir up controversy at a time when the administration is keen to portray its 'war on terror' as non-religious.

The book, which depicts a President who prays each day and believes he is on a direct mission from God, will give ammunition to critics who claim Bush's administration is heavily influenced by extremist Christians.

Bush is already under fire for allowing the appointment of General William Boykin to head the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Boykin, who speaks at evangelical Christian meetings, once said the war on terror was a fight against Satan, and also told a Somali warlord that, 'My God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.'

Bush has also been accused of a 'creeping Christianisation' of federal government programmes. In September, the government made more than $60 billion available for religious charitable groups. Critics say the groups will be able to use the cash to promote their religion. One group that benefited from previous grants was an Iowa prison project that entitled inmates to televisions, private bathrooms and computers - in return for Christian counselling.

Now Bush is likely to face intense scrutiny. The book, The Faith of George W. Bush, was written by Christian author Stephen Mansfield. It details numerous incidents where Bush's faith has been shown to be at the centre of his political thinking.

..............Bush said to James Robinson: 'I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.'







MarsBonfire -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/2/2009 7:11:42 AM)

Funny thing about Ol' George... for such a religious guy, he hasn't been to church once since getting out of office. I guess he dropped the act, once he realized his political career was over and done with.




Irishknight -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/2/2009 7:15:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

what, no love for the "Bigamist Believing in Invisible Tablets of Gold" Guys?



I tried sending an invisible tablet of gold to one of those gold buying places. They sent me an invisible check.





HatesParisHilton -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/2/2009 7:26:32 AM)

SNARF!
 
[:D][:D]




Arpig -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 9:18:38 AM)

quote:

I'll be flip and say it is because Canada was mainly founded by Catholics, Anglicans, and Presbyterians while America was largely founded by radical dissenters, such as Puritans, Quakers, and so on.
You know, I think you might be on to something there. At the time of the original colonization, Canada was almost 100% catholic, while in what would become the US  you had a lot of different dissenter groups. Even to this day the majority of Canadians are Catholic with Anglicans coming a relatively close 2nd (about 75% between them). As weird as it sounds, perhaps having a population belonging to the mainstream churched (i.e. Catholic/Anglican) leads to religious tolerance more so than those various sects that benefit most from religious tolerance. Interesting indeed.




HatesParisHilton -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 9:28:10 AM)

Can we get a Cult leader in the White House?  Just for kicks?




Arpig -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 9:36:56 AM)

quote:

Not true.

Abortion: Catholics are extremely anti. Methodists feel while all life is sacred, if a mother's life is in danger then abortion may be used to save her life.

Divorce: Catholicism-divorce is impossible unless anullment which means the marriage never existed. Protestants feel there are situations in which it is necessary.

Environmental concerns: Hindus feel no authority over animals/nature. Judaism are taught man has dominion over animals/nature.

Just to name a few things. The list could go on about the differences in morals and values. They're varied and numerous and is what divides us here in America. People stand by the morals and values of the religion of which they grew up with and it is a part of who they are. They can't just turn it off and on or not let it color how they choose to run the country. The decisions they make are partial to their religious beliefs.
Yet our PM, who is anti-abortion, anti-gay and pro-death penalty all on the basis of his religious beliefs has made not one effort to do anything to change the laws on those issues. Now some of that is almost certainly due to him having a minority government, but for some 40-odd years (from 1968 to 2006) Canada was governed by Catholics and during that time we liberalized divorce laws, promoted the ready access to birth control, provided abortions pretty much on demand, legalized homosexuality and gay marriages...all of which are in direct opposition to established Catholic dogma. So are our Catholics less Catholic than others? I doubt it, since in France they are pretty much all Catholic, they have the same sort of "anti-catholic" laws. I think perhaps ArtCat's idea about the US being mostly founded by religious splinter groups may have something to do with the US's preoccupation with religion. There is a tradition of having been persecuted for your religion breeds a concept of one's religion being the only true one, it also makes adherants more clannish as well, something that doesn't happen here. In fact, to be 100% honest, religion is so very little a deal here that of all my girlfriends etc. I have only known the religion of 2 of them...one because her father died so I found out at his funeral, and the other because I married her, and even then it wasn't until we were going about planning the wedding...we had to choose a church. Of all my friends, I know one is Catholic because he had his son baptized, and the others I haven't the slightest idea. This situation is not at all unusual here...religion is viewed as something personal that is nobody else's business...and it considered somewhat gauche to bring up one's religion or religious views unless that is the actual topic.

Anyway, my UM is standing behind me waiting impatiently for his turn on the computer...so I will see you all later.




HatesParisHilton -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 9:48:11 AM)

they were more than splinter groups. they were the Protties that the Protties didn't want.

but, sorry, can't resist, arpig...

" So are our Catholics less Catholic than others?"

No, just MORE POLITE. Like you have a choice, you're CANADIANS!

(sorry, I LOVE Canucks, and feel free laud them at any turn in the road.  WhistlerMountain, woo hoo!)





Arpig -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 10:01:23 AM)

I don't know...even His Most Catholic Majesty, Juan Carlos allows gay marriage..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtPkDhM1Brs




tnai -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 10:04:12 AM)

I think some of it has to do with support from those who other wise agree with them.  Although it's not a good thing the simple fact of the matter is some folk are prejudice towards other groups, and people know that so they get afraid to elect someone of a group that suffers from prejudice.




Arpig -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 10:24:29 AM)

quote:

Even to this day the majority of Canadians are Catholic with Anglicans coming a relatively close 2nd (about 75% between them).
Sorry folks, I was wrong about the 75%...I misread the table. 75% is the total Catholic & Protestant number. Catholic & Anglican is only about 50% (Catholics are around 45% and Anglicans a puny 5%...in fact apparently Canada is an overwhelmingly Catholic country). Interestingly enough, the percentage of those with no religion is pretty much the same in both countries...around 16%.




Arpig -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 10:27:33 AM)

But that doesn't seem to be the case everywhere, tnai. I hate to keep harping on about Canada, but like I said we elected an honest-to-God "the world is 6000 years old and men and dinosaurs coexisted" born-again creationist...possibly the only one to ever lead a country. We do have evangelicals here in Canada, but they are an extremely small minority (less than 2% as opposed to roughly 23% in the US).
I am beginning to think that it is perhaps the evangelicals that are the root of the issue, at least as far as the differences between attitudes towards religion in Canada and the US.




rulemylife -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 10:53:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am beginning to think that it is perhaps the evangelicals that are the root of the issue, at least as far as the differences between attitudes towards religion in Canada and the US.



Beginning
to think?

Was there ever any real question about it since Uncle Ronnie embraced the Moral Majority?




Moonhead -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 11:16:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am beginning to think that it is perhaps the evangelicals that are the root of the issue, at least as far as the differences between attitudes towards religion in Canada and the US.



Beginning
to think?

Was there ever any real question about it since Uncle Ronnie embraced the Moral Majority?


That's where the ball got rolling, isn't it? Ever since Reagan's first term, both parties have felt that they have to try to humour any element of the religious right who isn't quite as far gone as Fred Phelps. It doesn't seem to have done a lot of good for the country.




rulemylife -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 11:22:39 AM)

Oh, it has done a lot for the country.

All of it negative unfortunately.




kdsub -> RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? (10/3/2009 1:16:34 PM)

Religion is very important in a spiritual nation. The majority of Americans are Christians or believe in Christian morals so that means the President needs to be a Christian to be elected. Right or wrong it is a fact.

The time may come when the majority of Americans are not religious or believe in a different religion… then being a Christian or religious will be less meaningful.

Buch




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