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Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 4:58:19 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan?


WASHINGTON – Even as Republicans pummel President Barack Obama's health care proposals, some GOP leaders worry their party is being hurt by a Democratic counterattack: Where is your plan?

Republican leaders chose not to draft their own comprehensive bill, focusing instead on attacking Democrats' plans as too costly and bureaucratic. Some prominent Republicans now fear they are getting tagged as the "party of no," and they want the GOP to offer more solutions to the nation's health care problems.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a potential GOP presidential contender in 2012, said it's time for Republicans "to pivot and say, in addition to emphasizing what we oppose, here are our proposals" for health care. The two parties can agree on some important improvements, he said in an interview Thursday, but Democrats must trim their proposed costs.

Democrats, meanwhile, see a rare chance to go on the offensive in the debate, which has sometimes seemed dominated by fiery attacks on Obama's proposals.

"The Grand Old Party's coffers are empty when it comes to health care reform," Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Democrats' second-ranking Senate leader, said Thursday.

A new CBS-New York Times poll found that only 14 percent of Americans think Republicans have clearly explained their plans to change the health care system, while 76 percent do not. Obama's numbers were better, though not stellar: 37 percent yes, 55 percent no.

Aware of the criticisms, House Republican leaders have compiled lists of bills and principles that various colleagues have offered this year. But even the whole list combined doesn't match the breadth and detail of the massive Democratic-crafted health care bills that have moved through five congressional committees and may soon reach the House and Senate floors in some form.

Democrats scoff at the Republican proposals, calling them skimpy outlines that would do little if anything to make health care more affordable and efficient. The Republicans' repeated calls for health-related tax cuts, without credible spending cuts to offset them, would dramatically increase the deficit, Democrats say. They note that no major GOP proposal has been subjected to scrutiny by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which has given cost estimates for the Democratic proposals.

Speaking to union activists recently about health care, Obama taunted his Republican critics. "What's your answer?" he asked. "What's your solution?"

"You know what?" he continued. "They don't have one."
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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 5:13:46 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan?




'Bout fucking time they asked that. That angle should have been played months ago.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/2/2009 5:14:17 AM >

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 5:31:59 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		That said, weren't they talking about fining people who don't have a health insurance policy at one point?

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:05:04 AM   
Sanity


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Status: offline 		This is nothing but theatrics, at best a red herring. Instead of addressing actual issues Democrats are trying to distract.

Here's the issue: Dems want the same people who run the post office to take over health care, they want to in essence burn down what we have now and start everything from scratch.

They are proposing drastic changes, changes that most Americans have clearly demonstrated that they do not want.

Conservatives are asking for minor tweaks to the existing system to make health care more affordable and easier to obtain. What we have proposed is common knowledge to anyone with an open mind who pays attention, things such as tort reform, tax credits, easing restrictions on who may obtain group coverage rates, and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines.

I suppose that if Liberals need to hear something radical coming from the Conservative camp, then here it is: Our drastic proposal is calledthe free market.








< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/2/2009 7:20:38 AM >

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:15:39 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Great idea. Let the fuckers die. Dog eats dog. It's a jungle out there, and God told you so. If you can't afford healtcare, it means that you are poor, and therefore, morally bankrupt, so curl up and die on the wayside: that's evolution for ya!

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:18:58 AM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Not really. The Dems proposed increased competition via a public option, and the GOP is working to shoot it down. So I guess "competition" is somehow a Marxist/socialist/nazi plot, in republican eyes?

The only real plan they have, is to automatiaclly gainsay anything the President proposes: They were against his stim, against the saving of GM, against HCR, hell, they were even against his addressing school kids, or kids singing a song in favor of him! I'm sure they would come out against H1N1 shots, if they could somehow do so.  Because that's what is driving the GOP these days on every single issue: "fuck the good of the USA... we've got to "get" Obama!"

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:23:18 AM   
Sanity


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Al Gore is making millions from his global warming scheme, Bill Clinton is getting filthy rich selling speeches and other favors. I wonder why they don't go in with George Soros and Warren Buffet and some of those other big leftist billionaires and open some charity hospitals and clinics, the way the Catholics and the Shriners do.

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:28:38 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Status: offline 		Not wanted a plan that won't accomplish its stated goal, will bankrupt the economy, and requires administration from a source that can't distribute cheese and butter; IS a good plan.

I think it is the perfect time to ask this question. But with a filibuster proof majority it's being asked of the wrong people/party.

What's the matter; the Democratic majority can't reign in their own so they need a scapegoat? Why aren't they asking that question to the Democrats who won't vote for this pork filled nightmare? They don't need a Republican plan or one Republican vote to pass any health care bill. All the accusations, insults, and challenges made by anyone here should be applied to Democrats.

It's about time to ask the Democrats who won't vote for this Bill and inhibiting this from passing - Where's your plan?

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 7:29:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		and the bush family fortunes? the reagan family fortunes?

But the republican argument is you LOWER TAXES, REMOVE LAW and these benificent people just lay money out all over the place, stimulate the economy and altruistically care for the welfare of the human race.

Waltz me thru that, yanno, how that works better than or just as well as Palins stance of abstinence, in light of what you just said.

Ron

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 8:23:35 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Conservatives are asking for minor tweaks to the existing system to make health care more affordable and easier to obtain. What we have proposed is common knowledge to anyone with an open mind who pays attention, things such as tort reform, tax credits, easing restrictions on who may obtain group coverage rates, and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines.


Conservatives are asking for minor tweaks to the existing system to make health care more affordable and easier to obtain. What we have proposed is common knowledge to anyone with an open mind who pays attention, things such as tort reform, tax credits, easing restrictions on who may obtain group coverage rates and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines.

Interesting how tort reform is the crown jewel in every conservative health care reform plan. The CBO has estimated that malpractice costs comprise only 1.5% of medical costs. They have also estimated that even a 25%-30% reduction in these malpractice costs would result in a at best a .5% (yes, one hald of one percent) reduction in medical costs. Yet this has become the holy grail of the conservative health care reform efforts. When the big ticket item on your agenda is saving .5% on anything, you really are barking up the wrong tree. .5% of anything is pretty insignificant. For example, I would personally give up .5% of my income to have the conservatives stop acting as if tort reform was the mirical cure for our sick health care system. It sounds like, to me, at best one half of one percent of a solution.

Next we get to hear the oft repeadted cry for deregulation. Let the insurance companies sell on an interstate level, we’re told and all will be right with the world. What will actually happen is that it will completely deregulate the industry. All the insurance companies will need to do is buy one state government who will then legislate sweetheart laws packages for the insurance companies. Then the insurers will open their “main” office in that state and they can do as they like. We have seen how caring and concerned these companies are that their customers receive fair value for their money. Take away any meaningful regulation and all will be right with the world, say the conservatives. I give this a one half of one percent chance of being so.

I think we need to be clearer on this matter. It isnt’ that the conservatives don’t have any ideas in this matter. It’s that they have no ideas that have any basis in reality or any chance of doing anything to solve the problems they seek to address. Or, to put it very plainly, the conservatives have ideas. What they don’t have is any GOOD ideas on the matter.

When they come up with some, we’ll be glad to welcome them back into the conversation.

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 8:26:40 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Al Gore is making millions from his global warming scheme, Bill Clinton is getting filthy rich selling speeches and other favors. I wonder why they don't go in with George Soros and Warren Buffet and some of those other big leftist billionaires and open some charity hospitals and clinics, the way the Catholics and the Shriners do.


Ahhh...the old Charles Dickens approach, eh, Sanity? "Are there no prisons? Are they no workhouses?

Or are you just pointing out these people who have money and suggesting we redistribute their wealth?

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 8:28:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

When they come up with some, we’ll be glad to welcome them back into the conversation.
Is that your position for the Democrats who won't support the Bill? You know, the ones who, when its pointed out, have "integrity" and are contrasted to their Republican counterparts, as being "independent thinkers, not in lock step of party politics"?

Image the pressure these poor bastards are receiving; although at this point, a campaign speech on their behalf by the President may not seem so important. Exclusionary politics only crosses party lines?

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 8:51:52 AM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Funny, Sanity. As I understand it, Palin got paid a seven figure advance on "Goin' Rouge", and she also accepted a high six figure fee for going overseas and disparaging Obama while in China... (Kinda puts the off comment by Mel of the Dixie Chicks into perspective, doesn't it?)

The GOP has a plan for healthcare:
1) defeat any reform
2) keep sucking up the bribes from the insurance companies... because they won't be able to win elections based on their ideas... only on their propaganda. And that costs money to get out and saturate the media with, until the truth gets drowned out.

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 8:56:38 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Spinner of Tales

HR3400 Tom Price R GA



you can poo poo the idea of tax deduction all you want but that's knee jerk reaction.

Making insurance premiums deductable across the board regardless of who's paying for the insurance will reduce uninsured rates significantly
It is one of the top 3 cited reasons self employed have for not carrying coverage.
It's also a reason cited for the uninsured individuals who work for companies that can't afford to offer insurance.

The closer relationship between the customer paying and the providers will help improve service, because the insurance company can't just keep the HR department head happy and hope to keep the business. When the insured can simply change companies they get batter service than when they don't actually make the decission as to who they buy from.

Transferability between states

Again increased competition will drive down costs.
Membership groups (Co Ops) offering insurance will also help with the formation of groups who can negotiate rates.

Increases in the CHIP program reduces the problem of uninsured from the other end as well. (it's in both sides plans at different levels)

Employer contribution Rule will help people dis satisfied with the policy the company provides to afford a better plan that suits their needs, and will increase competition and reduce costs through that market pressure. (the rule being that an employee can opt out of the employer provided plan and still get the same monetary deductable contribution from their employer towards insurance)





< Message edited by Archer -- 10/2/2009 8:58:44 AM >

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 9:01:23 AM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Of course, the title of this peice is a bit misleading: it should be titled "Twenty-six REPUBLICAN LIES about hr-3200"

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 9:08:01 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Only 26? They are doing better than I thought
Lucy

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 9:13:59 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Status: offline 		Mars,

For the sake of accuracy I corrected the quote for you

The non-supporting DEMOCRATS & GOP has a plan for healthcare:
1) defeat any reform
2) keep sucking up the bribes from the insurance companies... because they won't be able to win elections based on their ideas... only on their propaganda. And that costs money to get out and saturate the media with, until the truth gets drowned out.

A representation of the Democratic perspective.

Sen. Thomas Carper (D.-Del.), a member of the Senate Finance Committee, told CNSNews.com that he does not "expect" to read the actual legislative language of the committee's health care bill because it is "confusing" and that anyone who claims they are going to read it and understand it is fooling people."I don't expect to actually read the legislative language because reading the legislative language is among the more confusing things I've ever read in my life", Carper told CNSNews.com

Needs repeating for emphasis; "Anyone who claims they are going to read it and understand it is fooling people."

Whats that say about people who support it and Senators who currently represent they will vote for it?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/2/2009 9:27:50 AM >

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 10:48:07 AM   
Sanity


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And the people who are sponsoring that crap are trying to "taunt" those who refuse to support it.

Congressional Democrats didn't write it, they can't understand it, and they refuse to post it on the Internet so we can have a look - claiming they don't know how to post it on the Internet in a timely fashion.

I don't feel taunted yet. Does anyone else?






< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/2/2009 10:54:53 AM >

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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 11:06:19 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Not really. The Dems proposed increased competition via a public option, and the GOP is working to shoot it down. So I guess "competition" is somehow a Marxist/socialist/nazi plot, in republican eyes?

The only real plan they have, is to automatiaclly gainsay anything the President proposes: They were against his stim, against the saving of GM, against HCR, hell, they were even against his addressing school kids, or kids singing a song in favor of him! I'm sure they would come out against H1N1 shots, if they could somehow do so.  Because that's what is driving the GOP these days on every single issue: "fuck the good of the USA... we've got to "get" Obama!"


That is just awful, maybe once the democrats take control of the house, they can do something to stop those godless repubs...oh wait, they do control it.


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RE: Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan? - 10/2/2009 11:08:07 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
That is just awful, maybe once the democrats take control of the house, they can do something to stop those godless repubs...oh wait, they do control it.


I'm as amazed as you are, Boi....trying to get democrats to work together is like trying to herd cats.

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