RE: Choosing to be a slave (Full Version)

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aidan -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 12:15:55 AM)

It's hard to say, specifically. It was a gradual thing, between the first time we met each other in person (and I mean the very first moment is when this process started) and seeing Her for the second time a few months later in May.

I just realized in that period that I didn't just like being with Mistress, or wanted to be with Her. I needed to be with Her, with every fiber of my being. The feeling I had when I was with Her, serving Her, cooking Her meals and bringing Her tea and cleaning Her home, it filled a void I had only a vague awareness of. Having that void again, even after the brief taste, was miserable. I decided that I needed to be Hers, to belong to Her and follow Her wherever She went if I was going to be a happy and fulfilled person.

We're apart now, indefinitely for the foreseeable future, and I feel that misery everyday. But it's lessened a little knowing that it will not be forever.




spookyfe -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 2:02:01 AM)

I didnt choose i am a slave its deep in me, however it wasnt until master said your my slave did i really know i am.   I have always known i am submissive but didnt know the term words or meanings i just new i was different saw things felt things in a different way to friends and kept quiet about certain feelings.   i was a submisssive to my master initially  and we grew together then as he took me deeper and i became a happier stronger more complete person the realisation dawned on me.  he realised from the begininng i might be his slave.  when he said to me your not my sub but my slave i felt instantly that i was home




agirl -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 3:29:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin


The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave. I know most slaves will say that I didnt choose slavery it choose me. I acknowledge that is likely true but at some point you had to say... Ok, I know this is who I am and accept that choosing to walk in the knowledge of who and what you are. When or how did you realize/decide to accept that and say, " yes, I am a slave".




I chose to be owned by someone, I didn't have to *accept* anything about myself in that way. There wasn't anything to accept.

I'm not a *slave* or a *submissive*. I'm just an ordinary person who chose to give authority over herself to someone else. I don't have any slavey drives, I don't have a burning desire to please, I don't particularly like being told what to do, I don't particularly like being restricted in any way and I don't get any great satisfaction from serving.

It's not *who I am* ......it's what I do and how I live.

I simply came across someone who made the idea of being owned more attractive than not. Someone more stubborn than me, whose will was stronger, who made better decisions for me than I did and who was annoyingly always right.

agirl




DesFIP -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 5:58:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I'm still not sure I am one. I was positive I was/am a submissive until Jeff (leadership) pointed out that I don't ever tell him no unless there's something he needs to know. So if after 8 years I do what he says maybe I am one after all?
*chuckles* You and Davan. It's apparently my mission in life to go around mentioning to various subs that if they don't say "no" and have no intention of ever saying "no"... well... *laughs*

OP: Carol never decided or realized that she was anything other than my wife. One day, she found out that obeying me made me happy. That makes her happy. So far, I haven't come up with a command so awful that it was worth stopping the whole obey thing over. That's it. No "slave's heart". No fire in the belly. No nada. Just a woman doing what she can to make her man happy.


Much of it is semantics after all.

But I don't obey him because it makes him happy as much as because he's always right. In the beginning I needed to know why he was doing things, had he thought them through and so on. And I always came to the discovery that he had just thought things out better than I can. He plays chess so he can think a half dozen moves ahead. I can't.

So why bother to do all that work to come to a decision if he's done it and come to the same one or a better one? My ego isn't that fragile that acknowledging his superiority in the field of decision making will destroy me.

But I totally disgree with Bounty. If I was one, that would mean I would be willing to be one to hordes of people just to fill the need to serve. I don't and if this relationship ends, I won't be one to someone else. Only him.




barelynangel -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 6:25:00 AM)

I am slave -- mind you not A SLAVE at the moment -- simply because i am susceptible to being mastered and enslaved by a Man or certain Men wherein his determinations and expectations sand strength are my governing force not my own autonomy and self-determination. This is a need in me. I am slave because i an susceptible to Men who are able to create the environment wherein i exist in his life as he determines. Again this is a need in me. i am slave because i am susceptivel to my autonomy and self-determination being taken by a Man who is capable of doing so. Its a need to which i rarely will exist with Men NOT capable of doing this. I am also slave because i will try and use my sexuality to please Men in general its very instinctive for me and i understand my sexuality belongs to Men and that is also my nature. I need their exceptance of this from Men. I am slave because with certain Men i need to be mastered and enslaved to exist as they determine and to have them take my self-determination. Its a reactions and instinct i cannot control. Slave is a need within for mastery by a Man, not a determination to be a slave on my part. i cannot help but gravitate to these strong men who know how to use mastery and my own needs against me to gain what they wish.

Its about my needs, instincts and reactions to mastery not my choices. But its also about what HE is capable of also.

I am not slave because i have some need to serve (not all people who are slaves are service oriented) or because i have some need to please everyone and anyone. Its funny because what most people don't get is MANY women who are slaves to Men are actually very dominant in nature. Its the mastery and enslavement by which they live UNDER the determinations of the Man who owns them that he determines how he holds them in slavery and what expectations and standards they must reach. Many people mistake what they observe of slaves as a concept of they are ultra submissives -- usually this is not true. Many times they are slaves because they are NOT submissive by nature and need the mastery and enslavement to exist by the expectations and standards of the Man who has determined to own them and is capable of holding them in slavery of his determination.

Its not a concept of choosing to be, or making a decision to obey (i.e., slaves many times are and can be disobedient, its not a concept of enjoying to serve and please (people do that all over the world daily and it doesn't make them slaves), being slave is simply in my nature when the right conditions arise based on a Man's determination.

I have a quote that states -- his will is such i can only be what naturally compels me.

I am a dominant nature, that doesn't disappear when i am a slave, its simply that his will, determinations etc, are such that i naturally exist in his life reaching for his expectations and standards because he has taken my autonomy and self-determination to exist as i determine in his life. i feed of his mastery, i need, and am enslaved by his mastery. Without the mastery and holding of me by his determination wherein he uses his mastery, my needs etc to hold me as he desires, i will grasp my self-determination and use it, i don't play a slave when a Man is incapable of holding me through mastery as he determines.

With such a Man or Men capable of this, i exist naturally and comfortably on my knees living by his determination, expectations, standards and such. Some days i get it right, some days i don't, and some days its a mixture of everything. grins, the concept of dominant nature and being slave nature is always so much fun to watch how people react to it. Just an FYI, being a dominant nature doesn't mean one wants to be etc a noun of being A dominant or Dominant. What's funny is also that i know given a CHOICE by a Man to be his slave, my answer to such a CHOICE is ummm no lol, even if it is detrimental to myself as i am my own worse enemy. Most Men i know don't ASK a slave to make a choice, they make the choice for her wherein she simply is what he determines her to be.

Choosing to be a slave is kind of oxymoronic due to the fact that if you choose to be a slave you are determining what slave means and in all actuality the woman who is the slave doesn't CHOOSE what slave is but instead lives by the determinations and expectations of the Man who has determined to master and enslave her so she exists as he determines in his life. I think too many people try and CHOOSE to be a slave and that is where their frustrations come in because the actuality of HIS determinations for her doesn't match up to what she has determined for herself being a slave.


angel




porcelaine -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 7:22:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin

The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave.


first of all i believe slaves are born not made. refute it if you will. however, those most successful on this path have inherent traits that existed before their discovery of the lifestyle and the manifestation of submissive leanings. a commitment to service in some caliber coupled with steely determination and unshakable will are usually hallmarks that appear in other areas of their lives.

having said that, i believe my journey began prior to my entry into the lifestyle. it was during a seven year period of deep introspection. i spent time becoming very well acquainted with myself, ripping things apart, discarding useless garbage and rebuilding myself from the ground up. this occurred in my early twenties. when i emerged i was a different creature, but had a keen sense of self. far more than most my age, but still somewhat undeveloped due to lack of life experience. i would fill in the gaps in the years that followed.

noblesse oblige has been etched in my head. we are called to serve and to help others. my commitment to this has always existed and i was usually involved in some charitable activity or lending a hand to friends and strangers alike. i didn't consider my behavior peculiar and gravitated to others like myself. this eventually led to participation in social organizations committed to change. i had a definite outlet that fulfilled my need to serve at the time. however, things would change down the road.

it began with collegiate studies in psychology. when i discovered maslow's theories and began to understand his hierarchy of needs and applied the concepts to myself, something clicked. i was able to relate these things back to childhood experiences and other points in my life as well. it was an eye opening moment and the wheels began to churn. i had a goal in sight and began racing towards it.

when bdsm entered my life and i finally decided to pursue things on the submissive end, i found great fulfillment in doing so. i had already recognized and embraced my need to serve in a different context. i possessed an acute understanding of self, and had a well defined goal in sight that would lead to a life altering process that i wanted to undergo. the rest merely fell into place.

i began gathering the strands. pulling in the teachings and experiences i'd gained from other paths and implemented them into my submission. i took the concept of yielding and removed all the buzz words and other nonsensical gibberish that is usually attached to it and saw it in it's plainest form. i did this with everything and each step forward inevitably led to another and the zeal of change propelled me ahead.

the surrender would eventually follow. i didn't consider whether it was slavery per se, i merely wanted to actualize.during the process of yielding to a higher self and removing layers of unnecessary pieces of me in order to find my core, i came to terms with the relational aspects of slavery. which in the most simplest way meant i was doing the same thing but utilizing a different method to get there. by choosing to actualize through surrender to another. slavery became the mechanism, a personal manifesto of sorts. it provided the way to be what i always desired.

so i jumped in and worked, thrashed, searching and probing everything within myself. it was an agonizing journey. there were moments when i thought this really wasn't worth it. but there were times when i flowed and those were the inspiration i drew upon when difficulties arose. i believe in some respect i understood what i'd become over time, but i didn't articulate it for a bit. when i did i remained unsatisfied, i needed to be more, to be better, i knew there was much to do. that drive has never waned. although it has changed a great deal in scope over the years.

most recently i revisited this and took a step back to gaze at the woman in the mirror. seeing her in all her beauty and imperfection. i compared who i was when it all began and the person i'd become. my modest words would only permit me to say, "look what you've done." a proud moment indeed, but no reason to rest upon my laurels at all. i began to tackle more difficult things, the remnants of what hadn't been touched before. where i differ from many is my commitment to excellence whether i am owned or unowned. i don't sit around lamenting the latter and waiting for the guru to fall from the sky. i use my time wisely and focus on betterment and perfecting what i've attained thus far.

in some ways slavery is easy for me. i came in with a lot of tools at the onset. in others it can be difficult for those very reasons. learning to lean on another person and place myself within his hands wasn't a simple task. i'm independent and assess my capabilities honestly. trusting that his methods might be better than my own took time. accepting there are moments when they're not took longer. i was very accustomed to taking care of myself. allowing myself to need him was a process in itself.

i've recently come to understand that it is my zen and a process that i'm committed to continuing. but under the auspices of one that guides. i could choose a different path through religion, career, hobbies, or other methods that provide an opportunity for transforming experiences. however, it is my belief this is what i was born to do. it feels natural, more so than i'd generally admit.

i will not say that slavery chose me. i think that would be entirely false. i will say that i was born with a select set of characteristics and needs that have found their proper channel. through this channel i am able to manifest and reveal my truest self in all forms. i would not be the woman i am without this journey, nor would i ever wish to change what i've done or become. i am a slave, now and always.

porcelaine




whiteslavebitch -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 7:42:23 AM)

No, I'm not really blaming the ex. I just didn't understand myself very well for a long time.

I always had the urges to defer to my SO's preferences. I always wanted to be a "good wife" in the style of the 50's. But my ex didn't really want that. He wanted to be the leader when he wanted to, other times he wanted me to take the lead. Talk about confusing for me.[:o] I tried, and sublimated my submissive nature, but it never worked for me for very long. It felt like a trap I couldn't get out of.

Now that I'm in a relationship with someone that understands me, I'm happier than I've ever been as an adult. It's a very freeing feeling.




daintydimples -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 8:19:54 AM)

I've never *chosen* to be a slave; my bottom side is submissive.  I have been a slave, however.  As others have mentioned, that was something that was engendered in me by another. 




Mercnbeth -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 3:20:22 PM)

this slave made the choice to be His slave...she wasn't coerced, forced, engendered or inspired.  It wasn't something she had to learn to accept or a challenge to her natural inclinations.  He layed out what being His slave would mean and it was a free will choice on this slave's part to agree to it...or not.
 
this slave does not and did not perceive herself as "slave" independent of an Owner/Master.




CaringandReal -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 5:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: looking4princess

Am i mistaken or are all of the definitive answers so far from submissive women? I don't think Bounty Hunter qualifies as a subby male. I wonder why I am, as I suspect, the first subby man to answer. (apologies if I am mistaken)


No apologies needed, but now I'm thinking I need a better face pic. [:D]



Laughing. Uh-oh.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 6:09:26 PM)

I spec'd my character in the service line. At level 25, I chose the Service to Women specialization. At level 40, I had to make my final choice, and decided to go with the slave specialization instead of submissive. It was a hard choice, but I had the strategy guide I bought from Prima Games, and I wanted the kneel line of spells rather than the Take Pain line of abilities the submissive offered.

Since reaching level 42, I find myself having trouble leveling up because I didn't realize that the specialization I chose would require me to group up with other people. Some of these games don't make that sort of thing very clear.




Eivarden -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 9:59:36 PM)

(Warning, a whole lot of whining, and me saying I'm not a slave now.)

Hmm, I was more of the type who wanted to be "Desired" (age 8 and up)and tried being the perfect "Top" (Age 12 and up)
eventually seeing how terrible of one I was (first GF age 15 and up), I met a more dominant woman who "Desired" me. (Age 18)

I confused being desired with being a sub.
I confused being so much happier with her, than any vanilla relationship, as a hint I should be a sub.

Coming here, I accepted being a slave, to get there.

But after seeing "being desired" isn't ever going to happen again. How much different things are with straight women, (yup, long story short, the domme girl above was gay)
and my general hatred of anyone, regardless of gender, who is arrogant and full of themselves, made me realize I'm not being a slave to these people.

I USED to consider myself a slave, from the age of 20-24. Now I don't.




Surrenderwithin -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 8:48:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I spec'd my character in the service line. At level 25, I chose the Service to Women specialization. At level 40, I had to make my final choice, and decided to go with the slave specialization instead of submissive. It was a hard choice, but I had the strategy guide I bought from Prima Games, and I wanted the kneel line of spells rather than the Take Pain line of abilities the submissive offered.

Since reaching level 42, I find myself having trouble leveling up because I didn't realize that the specialization I chose would require me to group up with other people. Some of these games don't make that sort of thing very clear.


WoW much?




Surrenderwithin -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 8:51:24 PM)


quote:




I USED to consider myself a slave, from the age of 20-24. Now I don't.


Since you are still active on CM it leads me to ask this: And now?




CaringandReal -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/6/2009 4:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: looking4princess


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

"slave belly" Snort! That's twice you made me laugh today. :D How I remember that term from certain steamy novels I used to read in my ill-spent youth. It struck me as a weird way to put it, too, although I always assumed they meant the "butterflies in the belly" feeling.

To Surrenderwithin: you term this in an odd way "to accept that you are a slave." Is acceptance of it something you are working with right now?

I don't have much to contribute to your question, I'm afraid. I was one of those who knew what she was long before I had a word for it. My earliest memories involve eroticizing lack of power, pain, and humiliation or fantasizing about that. There was no acceptance. No decision. Kind of like some people grow up knowing they're straight... or gay. Or like sheep. Or whatever. ;) You just know. I had a lightbulb moment (I guess you could call it my "Helen Keller" moment) when I realized there was a name for what I felt and other (real, not fictional) people felt similarly. But that was about it. Then I went back to business as usual.


Am i mistaken or are all of the definitive answers so far from submissive women? I don't think Bounty Hunter qualifies as a subby male. I wonder why I am, as I suspect, the first subby man to answer. (apologies if I am mistaken)

My experience was pretty much the same as described by CaringandReal. I was eroticizing submission in play from as early as age eight or so, always being the captive in games never the hunter. It stayed with me and was reinforced through sexual play after puberty, and beyond. There never was a eureka moment. As Bounty says either you are or you aren't. And I always knew it.

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean I readily accepted it. BDSM orientations were less readily acceptable in pre-internet days. So, it has been a stuggle to come out and stay out of the closet.

In addition, trying to lead an examined life, I have always been fascinated by the nature/nurture question. I don't have that answer. I think it is far too complicated. I wanted to mention it but I don't wish to hijack the thread into that direction. Besides, I would bet it has already been dealt with on these Boards.

From what I understand the early childhood eroticism of submission is a subset of a larger range of experiences. Others come to the "realization" of their submissive orientation later in life. Interesting topic, I think. Thank you.



Nature/nurture gets done on ALL bdsm boards hundreds of times. I never let that (or some pissy person telling me that it's already been done) stop me if I want to talk about it, as I find it a fascinating question and I always learn something new from new contributors to the idea.

Hi, I didn't eroticize "submission-play" at a young age. Being a very young child, I didn't do "submission-play." I eroticized events that made me feel humiliated, that hurt, or that otherwise made me feel powerless. Powerlessness was and still is at the base of all my erotic longings, the actual events or experiences were means to that end, and if they hadn't already been laced with an unfair balance of power, I wouldn't have found them particularly arousing. I didn't play with other kids. I just had fairly normal childhood experiences (disciple from parents, dreams, tv shows, etc.) that I eroticized. I guess years later when I got a little older (8 sounds about right) I did start initiating such games with other children. But not that often, I was too frightened that what I was doing was bad or wrong. The point I was trying to make that I think I was born that way, and so I interpreted my life, from my earliest memories (which go back to about age 4) in ways that other people would not. Power(lessness) is my drug. :)

FWIW, I think there are far more sub men than sub women on Collarme.com. When you set your personal ad search as broadly as possible and tally the names/colors over a range of dates, you get that impression. However, I think sub women are much bigger, um... "blabbermouths?" then sub men however and sp they dominate on most of these messageboards, with the exception of Ask a Mistress.




CaringandReal -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/6/2009 4:34:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I spec'd my character in the service line. At level 25, I chose the Service to Women specialization. At level 40, I had to make my final choice, and decided to go with the slave specialization instead of submissive. It was a hard choice, but I had the strategy guide I bought from Prima Games, and I wanted the kneel line of spells rather than the Take Pain line of abilities the submissive offered.

Since reaching level 42, I find myself having trouble leveling up because I didn't realize that the specialization I chose would require me to group up with other people. Some of these games don't make that sort of thing very clear.


WoW much?


Snort! Pre-dual spec. days, I gather.




Aileen1968 -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/6/2009 5:03:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin

The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave. I know most slaves will say that I didnt choose slavery it choose me. I acknowledge that is likely true but at some point you had to say... Ok, I know this is who I am and accept that choosing to walk in the knowledge of who and what you are. When or how did you realize/decide to accept that and say, " yes, I am a slave".



I never considered myself or thought of myself as a slave. I was submissive. And then I met him and all I craved was to be completely 100% owned by him. It was not something within me that drew it out, it was something within him that made me want to be his.




nanshakh -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/6/2009 8:43:18 AM)

quote:

Original: Surrenderwithin
The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave.



I think there is a relevant contradiction in terms embedded in the question.

One never decides to be a slave. By definition, being a slave can only happen when one is enslaved, so it is the one doing the enslaving who makes the decision to turn the other into a slave. By definition too, the slave has no say in the matter, a slave is not left with an option to refuse slavery. Except by escaping or dying. When the owner is in a position to enslave, the slave is not in a position to refuse.

If one ever decides that one is a slave, one will probably be looking for the "right" owner that will fit one's slavery, or fantasy of such. It only demonstrates an incapability to understand the nature of slavery.

Instead of deciding to be a slave, what one can decide, or accept about one's nature, is that one craves to be enslaved.

The difference seems important. If one decides to be a slave, one is already making a decision that is not his. Not a very good start. Instead, if he only feels he craves, needs to be enslaved, he will leave not only that decision, but the terms of the slavery up to the owner.

quote:

looking4princess:
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean I readily accepted it. BDSM orientations were less readily acceptable in pre-internet days. So, it has been a stuggle to come out and stay out of the closet.


Yes, there is the difficulty of accepting, it was the same for me. But more than that, it was the paradox that acceptance left me confronted with that was the difficulty. After all, accepting my true nature was a relief, after an early childhood struggling with that enormous feeling I didn't really understand, like a monster growing in the closet. But once the acceptance is made, the paradox is left to stay, and grow. What to do? Up till then I had fighting it, but now, what could I do with it?

And that's where the glitch is: one can accept that one craves to be enslaved, but one cannot really act upon it. It takes two to tango, but in this dance all the initiatives and decisions are left into the hands of one partner. So one can only reflect on one's deepest aspirations, and then desire to be caught, collared, enslaved, by the right predator. That can be a tricky venture. But what one can do, once one has fully accepted one's inescapable desire to be enslaved, is to reflect on what being a slave entails, and prepare for it. To be the right kind of male to be attractive to a potential mistress.

The kind of slave one will be, the kind of life and slavery one will be subjected to will depend on the owner, never on the slave. So there's not much point in cultivating one's own preferences and tastes about the kind of slavery one envisions. If one is ever enslaved, the nature and conditions of the slavery will never ever be what one expected. If only because the owner will not necessarily be very concerned about the slave's expectations or tastes. Except to manipulate the slave, but not specially to satisfy him. :) So devious!

So to conclude my answer: I never thought "Yes, I am a slave". But I remember accepting the fact that nothing was more important to me than to be enslaved to a woman. And when that realisation came, I was still a child, and I didn't have a clue as to how such a thing could ever be possible; in fact, I didn't even know then that some women had a corresponding desire to enslave. In a sense, when years later I discovered that fact, it only made it seem even more impossible.

To me the problem was like that: how to attract the attention of a dominant Woman so that She felt like picking me up, trying me, enslaving me? The necessary passive attitude I felt restrained to as a "potential" slave was always a prerequisite to be effectively enslaved. Precisely, one cannot search, one can only be the right kind of prey, at the right place, the right moment, on the path of the Mistress. Instinctively, from the start, I always was sure that it was mandatory that my attitude remains passive.

It does sound like a catch 22 situation. It is. It does make one feel a bit hopeless. But it does put one in a more open and receptive attitude, which might be the very right state of mind to effectively become enslaved.

Nanshakh




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