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healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 6:55:06 PM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline 		"A family of four headed by a 45-year-old making $63,000 a year is in the middle of the middle class. But that family would pay $7,110 to buy its own health insurance under the plan from the committee chairman, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont. The family would get a tax credit of $3,970 to help pay for a policy worth $11,080. But the balance due — $7,110 — is real money."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_affordability


The article insinuates that this will only effect the self-employed middle class, since most families will be covered through their employers -- completely discounting the fact that more and more employers are cutting insurance coverage for employees.  This "healthcare reform" is going to hurt a significant segment of the already-beleagured American middle class, period.

(But don't worry, the fines will be decreased in certain cases.)

Any politican who supports this (as a "compromise," or anything else) is part of the scheme to transfer billions and billions of dollars (on the backs of the middle class) to the corporate insurance companies -- period. 
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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 7:51:02 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Yep. The Bauccus "comprimise" bill is a peice of shit. Luckily, the bills in the Senate are far better that the one the finance committee is debating. In the end, if the right parts of the varied bills are combined, we'll actually get some modest reorms that will help cover half the people who are out there, uninsured, and who are currently dragging on the system... so, if that is true, we might see some easing (or at least slowing) in the rise of health care costs...

But it's going to be nothing compared to what the public option could have done to make the insurance companies more competative.

(in reply to shannie)
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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 9:05:20 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Nah, the "reform" it looks like you are going to get isn't going to fix a thing,it is only going to make things worse overall.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 10:21:48 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I have to agree, Arpig. Without a public option, the insurance companies have no reason to keep themselves in check.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 10:26:13 PM   
einstien5201


Posts: 63
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Status: offline 		Does the latest compromise bill still include a provision to penalize those who choose not to be covered?

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/3/2009 10:28:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I dont think we know that yet. I havent seen a final version of the Senate or House bills.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 12:46:36 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I have a solution. Outlaw insurance in all forms.

Later we outlaw charging interest on money loaned.

World will be straight up in about ten years. If it happens I hope to be here to see it. If not, I hope to be gone.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 1:02:15 AM   
SeekingAZ


Posts: 82
Joined: 9/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have to agree, Arpig. Without a public option, the insurance companies have no reason to keep themselves in check.


Yeah, how dare those insurance companies allow themselves a 4% profit margin.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 4:23:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		4 %... i want to see your source for that figure.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 4:35:59 AM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I'd like to see that source too.  Not that the profit margin is the only thing.  How about denying coverage to patients when they get sick?  Yep, they need to be put in check.  Right now no ones keeping them in check and in case you haven't noticed....they're rabid.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 4:40:52 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		im going back to bed... maybe when i wake up, Seeking may have realized that the profit margins the insurance companies will have quoted would also have included any bonuses paid out.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 7:53:45 AM   
einstien5201


Posts: 63
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Status: offline 		And now we're getting to the meat of the issue. What most people don't realize is that for insurance companies to exist, they have to bring in more money than they pay out. Even an insurance company who only breaks even is charging more in premiums than they pay out, to cover overhead. That means, on average, that an individual pays more to the insurance company than they would to doctors to pay for the coverage directly. Insurance is a bad bet.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 9:26:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

That means, on average, that an individual pays more to the insurance company than they would to doctors to pay for the coverage directly.


And if everyone set aside their $13,000 a year from the day they start working for health care needs later in life, you'd have a point.

Back here in the real world, though....

(in reply to einstien5201)
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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 10:06:11 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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That's a great argument for having government provide everything. Food, clothing, shelter - just name it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: einstien5201

And now we're getting to the meat of the issue. What most people don't realize is that for insurance companies to exist, they have to bring in more money than they pay out. Even an insurance company who only breaks even is charging more in premiums than they pay out, to cover overhead. That means, on average, that an individual pays more to the insurance company than they would to doctors to pay for the coverage directly. Insurance is a bad bet.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/4/2009 10:08:49 AM >

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 10:10:29 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

4 %... i want to see your source for that figure.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl




Trust me, tazzy, you don't. It'll either be an insurance company site or one with headlines like "Obama's New Plan for Ending Hunger Among Illegals: American Baby Stew!



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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 10:13:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That's a great argument for having government provide everything. Food, clothing, shelter - just name it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: einstien5201

And now we're getting to the meat of the issue. What most people don't realize is that for insurance companies to exist, they have to bring in more money than they pay out. Even an insurance company who only breaks even is charging more in premiums than they pay out, to cover overhead. That means, on average, that an individual pays more to the insurance company than they would to doctors to pay for the coverage directly. Insurance is a bad bet.




So, essentially, insurance is set up with a structure of socialism, and a cream at the top that uses capitalism in its most despicable lassize faire form, and republicans are loving it, nothing wrong with it.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 10:34:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

4 %... i want to see your source for that figure.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl




Trust me, tazzy, you don't. It'll either be an insurance company site or one with headlines like "Obama's New Plan for Ending Hunger Among Illegals: American Baby Stew!





Oh yes i do, Spinner. Because i have already seen a few... and the logic behind them are even spelled out. No one is buying that these companies are making barely enough to cover costs and expenses, unless you include the massive costs of overhead, marketing, lobbying and bonuses to the total cost of operations...

wait... gee... they already are!


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 11:43:32 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
So, essentially, insurance is set up with a structure of socialism, and a cream at the top that uses capitalism in its most despicable lassize faire form, and republicans are loving it, nothing wrong with it.


This isn't a "Republican" issue. Every proposed plan for "health care reform" has included forcing Americans to buy corporate health insurance.  It's the one thing both "parties" agree on.

Oh, they've gone back and forth, pretending to debate a "public option," but Obama said early on that it was the one thing he was "willing to compromise on."  If he was representing the people, instead of the corporate health insurance companies, it would have been the one thing he was not willing to compromise on.


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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 12:52:54 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		You want profit margin data?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/431.html

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent.

Source, http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/8/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains.html

The figure cited is actually on average accurate.

And profit margins are calculated the same way for all industries, the accounting rules are the same.




< Message edited by Archer -- 10/4/2009 12:54:28 PM >

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RE: healthcare reform to increase hardship on middle class - 10/4/2009 1:13:03 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingAZ


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have to agree, Arpig. Without a public option, the insurance companies have no reason to keep themselves in check.


Yeah, how dare those insurance companies allow themselves a 4% profit margin.


Must be after the $30 million a year salaries of the CEOs are deducted and the billion dollar retirement packages.  Figures do not lie but liars figure. It certainly does not take into consideration that the insurance companies divert a minimum of 60 billion a year to non health care related activities.

(in reply to SeekingAZ)
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