Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 8:30:35 PM)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/california-failing-state-debt

all right- what am I missing,  hunger strike????????

Say what?

Isn't that abit dramatic?




kittinSol -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 8:46:47 PM)

Looks like California is going down the toilet... But all is for the best in the best of all capitalistic worlds.




thornhappy -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 8:59:25 PM)

The causes of California's problems were laid a long long time ago, even before Prop 13 went through.

Guys were saying that the state was going to end up in big financial trouble back in the early '90s due to "budget by referendum" and the need of a supermajority to pass tax increases.

I'm a native and spent most of my career there (with a gap for primary and secondary education), and am glad to be out of there.  I miss it in some respects (living in Silicon Valley was like being in the center of the tech universe; and Santa Barbara is beautiful), but could only afford to live there by purchasing a mobile home or parking an RV in my employer's parking lot.




TheHeretic -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 11:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Looks like California is going down the toilet... But all is for the best in the best of all capitalistic worlds.



Capitalist???  HA!  This state is run by, and for the benefit of, the public employee unions.  Capitalist?  Where do you come up with this stuff, Kitten?  Or do you just snark blindly?

BTW, CA teachers are incredibly well paid, to produce crap their unions won't allow them to be held accountable for.




Searchin4What -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 11:13:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

BTW, CA teachers are incredibly well paid, to produce crap their unions won't allow them to be held accountable for.


I'm not sure how you get the impression that teachers are not accountable.  Have you ever had a job where your supervisors never checked on you?

I can tell you that teachers are visited in the classroom at least once a week, and sometimes more often, by a combination of principals, assistant principals, department chairs, subject coaches, and district personnel.

As for being well paid and then being well protected, if it's such a cushy, easy-money proposition, why is it that half the people who start a teaching career don't last three years?




TheHeretic -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 11:20:44 PM)

PaHunk, your linked article is bullshit.  This statement laying off vast numbers of workers, is an utter lie.  State employee lay-offs were blocked by a judge.  Last I heard, the state had actually hired another 1100 employees to handle the phones for the unemployment office.  The IOU's are going out instead of tax returns, not paychecks, and they get paid off this month, iirc.  Investors bought them off the people who had to have the money now.

It's a mess.  It's a mess that can be laid squarely on insane spending by liberal special interests in our legislature, and a Governator who turned out to be a girly-man who kept right on signing off on the shit.  It isn't the end of the world, and it might be what we need to finally elect the guy we should have elected 7-ish years ago.




gift4mistress -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/3/2009 11:57:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Looks like California is going down the toilet... But all is for the best in the best of all capitalistic worlds.


Instead of blurting generalized anti-capitalistic rhetoric; perhaps, you can do some research and find out who/what is behind the collapse of the 7th biggest economy in the world.

http://www.mybudget360.com/california-economy-80-million-in-unemployment-insurance-being-paid-out-per-day-143000-exhausted-their-jobless-benefits-on-september-1-one-in-four-unemployed-workers-without-a-job-for-27-weeks/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/06/economy-pension-environment-business-opinions-columnists-california.html


1. Arnold Schwarzenegger The Terminator came to power with the support of much of the middle class and business community. But since taking office, he's resembled not the single-minded character for which he's famous but rather someone with multiple personalities.First, he played the governator, a tough guy ready to blow up the dysfunctional structure of government. He picked a street fight against all the powerful liberal interest groups. But the meathead lacked his hero Ronald Reagan's communication skills and political focus. Defeated in a series of initiative battles, he was left bleeding the streets by those who he had once labeled "girlie men."Next Arnold quickly discovered his feminine side, becoming a kinder, ultra-green terminator. He waxed poetic about California's special mission as the earth's guardian. While the housing bubble was filling the state coffers, he believed the delusions of his chief financial adviser, San Francisco investment banker David Crane, that California represented "ground zero for creative destruction."Yet over the past few years there's been more destruction than creation. Employment in high-tech fields has stagnated (See related story, "Best Cities For Technology Jobs") while there have been huge setbacks in the construction, manufacturing, warehousing and agricultural sectors.Driven away by strict regulations, businesses take their jobs outside California even in relatively good times. Indeed, according to a recent Milken Institute report, between 2000 and 2007 California lost nearly 400,000 manufacturing jobs. All that time, industrial employment was growing in major competitive rivals like Texas and Arizona.With the state reeling, Arnold has decided, once again, to try out a new part. Now he's posturing as the strong man who stands up to dominant liberal interests. But few on the left, few on the right or few in the middle take him seriously anymore. He may still earn acclaim from Manhattan media offices or Barack Obama's EPA, but in his home state he looks more an over-sized lame duck, quacking meaninglessly for the cameras.

2. The Public Sector
Who needs an economy when you have fat pensions and almost unlimited political power? That's the mentality of California's 356,000 workers and their unions, who make up the best-organized, best-funded and most powerful interest group in the state.State government continued to expand in size even when anyone with a room-temperature IQ knew California was headed for a massive financial meltdown. Scattered layoffs and the short-term salary givebacks now being considered won't cure the core problem: an overgenerous retirement system. The unfunded liabilities for these employees' generous pensions are now estimated at over $200 billion. The people who preside over these pensions represent the apex of this labor aristocracy. This year two of the biggest public pension funds, CalPERS and CalSTERS, handed out six-figure bonuses to its top executives even though they had lost workers billions of dollars. Almost no one dares suggest trimming the pension funds, particularly Democrats who are often pawns of the public unions. Some reforms on the table, like gutting the two-thirds majority required to pass the budget, would effectively hand these unions keys to the treasury.

3. The Environment
Obama holds up California's environmental policy as a model for the nation. May God protect the rest of the country. California's environmental activists once did an enviable job protecting our coasts and mountains, expanding public lands and working to improve water and air resources. But now, like sailors who have taken possession of a distillery, they have gotten drunk on power and now rampage through every part of the economy.In California today, everyone who makes a buck in the private sector--from developers and manufacturers to energy producers and farmers--cringes in fear of draconian regulations in the name of protecting the environment. The activists don't much care, since they get their money from trust-funders and their nonprofits. The losers are California's middle and working classes, the people who drive trucks, who work in factories and warehouses or who have white-collar jobs tied to these industries.Historically, many of these environmentally unfriendly jobs have been sources of upward mobility for Latino immigrants. Latinos also make up the vast majority of workers in the rich Central Valley. Large swaths of this area are being de-developed back to desert--due less to a mild drought than to regulations designed to save obscure fish species in the state's delta. Over 450,000 acres have already been allowed to go fallow. Nearly 30,000 agriculture jobs--held mostly by Latinos--were lost in the month of May alone. Unemployment, which is at a 17% rate across the Valley, reaches upward of 40% in some towns such as Mendota.

4. The Business Community
This insanity has been enabled by a lack of strong opposition to it. One potential source--California's business leadership--has become progressively more feeble over the past generation. Some members of the business elite, like those who work in Hollywood and Silicon Valley, tend to be too self-referential and complacent to care about the bigger issues. Others have either given up or are afraid to oppose the dominant forces of the environmental activists and the public sector.Theoretically, according to business consultant Larry Kosmont, business should be able to make a strong case, particularly with the growing Latino caucus in the legislature. "You have all these job losses in Latino districts represented by Latino legislators who don't realize what they are doing to their own people," he says. "They have forgotten there's an economy to think about."But so far California's business executives have failed to adopt a strategy to make this case to the public. Nor can they count on the largely clueless Republicans for support, since GOP members are often too narrowly identified as anti-tax and anti-immigration zealots to make much of a case with the mainstream voter. "The business community is so afraid they are keeping their heads down," observes Ross DeVol, director of regional economics at the Milken Institute. "I feel they if they keep this up much longer, they won't have heads."

5. Californians
At some point Californians--the ones paying the bills and getting little in return--need to rouse themselves. The problem could be demographic. Over the past few years much of our middle class has fled the state, including a growing number to "dust bowl" states like Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas from which so many Californians trace their roots.The last hope lies with those of us still enamored with California. We have allowed ourselves to be ruled by a motley alliance of self-righteous zealots, fools and cowards; now we must do something. Some think the solution is reining in citizens' power by using the jury pool to staff a state convention, as proposed by the Bay Area Council, or finding ways to undermine the initiative system, which would remove critical checks on legislative power.We should, however, be very cautious about handing more power to the state's leaders. With our acquiescence, they have led this most blessed state toward utter ruin. Structural reforms alone, however necessary, won't turn around the economy's fundamental problems and help California reclaim its role as a productive driver of the American dream. Joel Kotkin is a presidential fellow in urban futures at Chapman University. He is executive editor of newgeography.com and writes the weekly New Geographer column for Forbes. He is working on a study on upward mobility in global cities for the London-based Legatum Institute. His next book, The Next Hundred Million: America in 2050, will be published by Penguin early next year.







pahunkboy -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 6:24:50 AM)

LOLOL.

Chapman university IS named after Bob Chapman--  in case anyone wondered.   :-)   (he is my guru)




thornhappy -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 9:42:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress


Instead of blurting generalized anti-capitalistic rhetoric; perhaps, you can do some research and find out who/what is behind the collapse of the 7th biggest economy in the world.

http://www.mybudget360.com/california-economy-80-million-in-unemployment-insurance-being-paid-out-per-day-143000-exhausted-their-jobless-benefits-on-september-1-one-in-four-unemployed-workers-without-a-job-for-27-weeks/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/06/economy-pension-environment-business-opinions-columnists-california.html. Large swaths of this area are being re-developed back to desert--due less to a mild drought than to regulations designed to save obscure fish species in the state's delta.

Frankly, that guy's got his head up his ass if he's calling that a mild drought.  While conservatives rant about saving fish in the delta, they don't hear about salt water intrusion into the water table in the delta due to lower fresh water flow, or the harm done to the delta fisheries.  The delta's in real trouble:
"Years of excessive water withdrawals, increasing pollution and the spread of invasive species has brought the system to near-collapse, decimated native fish populations and thrown the state's water supply into question."

And they don't hear about the incredible water subsidies that provided no incentive to smart use of water.

How do any of the things listed in that article relate to Prop 13, or the constant increase in spending through the initiative process? 

When unions are mentioned it's almost always the teacher's unions and government unions that get slammed.  How about the union for prison employees?  That is a hellaciously powerful union and they drove support for "three strikes", increased prison terms, etc.  And they ain't a bunch of democrats. 

thornhappy




Musicmystery -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 10:03:40 AM)

Governing is making choices. Voters want but don't want to pay, and referendums tie the legislature's hand.

In short, nobody's making the tough choices, and trying to have it both ways is bankrupting California.




mnottertail -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 10:04:45 AM)

which is putting the lie to less taxes mean a robust economy, and healthy business.

again. still.




kittinSol -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:02:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

which is putting the lie to less taxes mean a robust economy, and healthy business.

again. still.


Hence my anti-capitalist snark [8|] .




MzMia -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:11:57 PM)

We are certainly on the road to a Depression.
 
Teachers on a freaking hunger strick in California?

When does this crap end?
   




TheHeretic -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:17:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
When does this crap end?
   



When they reach their goal weight?




Moonhead -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:20:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

We are certainly on the road to a Depression.
 
Teachers on a freaking hunger strick in California?

When does this crap end?
   

When the teachers start to feel a bit peckish, I expect.
Perhaps they know something about the school cafe food we don't?




Moonhead -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:22:41 PM)

Bugger. Beaten to the draw again.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:37:24 PM)

-FR-
I've noticed that this hunger strike tactic only works in prison. Outside it lacks credibility because nobody is around to scrutinise if they are eating or not. If they felt this strongly about it they'd be setting themselves on fire like protestors elsewhere in the world. I'm guessing it isn't so important that they are willing to take that extreme step?




Moonhead -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:41:18 PM)

Maybe they aren't buddhists.




kittinSol -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:43:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

When unions are mentioned it's almost always the teacher's unions and government unions that get slammed.  How about the union for prison employees?  That is a hellaciously powerful union and they drove support for "three strikes", increased prison terms, etc.  And they ain't a bunch of democrats. 



Exactly, but it doesn't suit the rhetoric, to blame the prison wardens' unions: they're not a soft target like the teachers. After all, who's easier to blame than an 'incredibly well-paid' (rofl!!!) teacher? I'd like to see people like TheHeretic, Merc and the others, teach in some of those schools [8|] . From what I hear, it is no sinecure.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Hunger strike- teachers in Calif ! >? (10/4/2009 3:53:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Maybe they aren't buddhists.

That could be the case but more likely not eating for a couple of days will do less long term damage than third degree burns. Either you are willing to harm yourself seriously to raise awareness about something or you are just making empty threats of self harm that nobody cares about anyway. Usually when people make a rational argument against something without added melodrama they are taken far more seriously.




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