RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be

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Elisabella -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:03:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella getting throat fucked makes your tits bigger. Really? Thanks for the tip! general comment: so does rubbing toilet paper on them, look what it has done for your asses, girls. Ron OMG, I can't believe I hadn't made the connection! Why was there no mention of bidets in that "French chicks don't get fat" or whatever book?

mnottertail -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:04:57 AM)
science is all around you. Al Einstein

OttersSwim -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:14:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Well you're asking if being submissive or dominant makes you a better person. That it's some sort of personality booster that makes you stay on best behaviour longer in a relationship. Best behaviour either fades, or becomes normal behaviour. But I'm not entirely sure it's a question of best behaviour. I think there's 'single behaviour' and 'relationship behaviour' and that it's quite possible that identifying so strongly with a relationship dynamic ("I am a submissive" is an identity statement. Nobody says "I am a girlfriend" in the sense that it is a defining aspect) helps put someone more easily in relationship mode. Relationship mode is more than just not eating the last ice cream when you've eaten the other 3 in the box. It's seeing yourself as part of something, as more than just yourself. When you identify as 'dominant' or 'submissive' you're basically giving yourself a label that's pretty useless without the other half to play it off of. That doesn't make a 'better person' because the exact same inclinations are what drive people to codependency and jumping into relationships headfirst. And it's not something that's unique to BDSM, but rather a certain state of mind that sees the relationship as a strong if not the strongest aspect of one's identity. This is a good post and I agree with most of what you have said. I think that the submissive "state of mind" can indeed change a person's behavior. Whether or not that makes you a better person is subjective. In my case, I see positive adjustments in myself due to the dynamic and being submissive.

leadership527 -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:24:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim This is a good post and I agree with most of what you have said. I think that the submissive "state of mind" can indeed change a person's behavior. Whether or not that makes you a better person is subjective. In my case, I see positive adjustments in myself due to the dynamic and being submissive. nods That makes more sense. edited to elaborate based on OS's following question I have certainly become a better person being Carol's owner. In my case, it is the pressing weight of responsibility that pushes me to do better than I might've done as her husband. As I've posted here, I actually do believe that responsibility and authority go hand in hand. I actually DO want all the authority. So that has distressing ramifications regarding the amount of responsibility I bear laughs. It is my desire to actually measure up to that bar which makes me a better person. From Carol's standpoint, she comments that words like "strength", "discipline", "integrity", "honor", etc. are primarily male words (at least to her). So for her, submission has become a vehicle for exploring those concepts. In addition, I have set some pretty high bars for her which also encourage her to be the best "Carol" she can be.

OttersSwim -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:26:25 AM)
So I still see my initial question as valid, but we had to clarify the intent. Having established that just: "being submissive or dominant does not necessarily make you a better person" I think we have come to the place where most seem to agree that with the concepts around the D/s dynamic put in practice in relationship "can make you a better person" I believe this to be true for me. And so I have to again ask: "Has this been your experience, and if so, how have you seen yourself improved by it?"

DesFIP -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 11:39:13 AM)
I don't think it is submission or domination per se. I think it's being in a good and healthy relationship where you can be vulnerable, where you know you are accepted for who you are. The stress of living up to someone else's expectations when those expectations do not match your authentic self cause enormous frustration which makes it more likely that you'll explode and act out. Stress does that to a person. Being without that stress, being fully known and fully loved allows me not to have to hide those less lovable parts of me. And because it's okay to be a flawed human being for the first time, I find that those parts are less likely to act up. I hope this made sense Otter, I know I'm having trouble wording it.

waitingforMaster -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 12:09:28 PM)
To me, in the very beginning of course it is wonderful, your more submissive, He is more attentive and less to catch you on your faults. Then there is a period where issues arise, and there are great times and really bad time, and if you can weather them, than it could very well turn into the lifetime perfect relationship. ill quote a friend who knows a couple celebrating their 26th anniversary, when she asked how did you guys make it so long, he replied i kept my mouth shut as much as possible and there was no guns in the house. Communication, devotion, strength, love, the ability to see past the issues, and trust all comes to mind. We all have our good and bad days. Doms do too. We all have stresses in our lives that affect our moods, we normally dont even see it. it is just a part of life, to understand it is the key.

OttersSwim -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 12:09:37 PM)
You know it does make sense DesFIP, and it echoes what lovingpet said as well. Without doubt, in the past year I have had the opportunity to be my authentic self and my previous relationship was all about denial of that authenticity - hence stress, and negative behavior patterns. Very good input. [:)]

porcelaine -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 12:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim So what do you think? Does being submissive make you a better person? Has your experience been that it has extended that projection of your "best self" in your relationships? Have you seen old behaviors that are inconsistent with your current dynamic pop up like I have? no i don't. my commitment to being a better person is carried out in one faction through my slavery. i could utilize my career, volunteer efforts, religion, or other paths to do the same. the beneficiary may differ, but the desire remains the same. i would hate to think that i would lack this capacity if i didn't come to the kneel at all. i don't know what the says about me overall if that is the case. i believe in bringing my best self into all environments and view the refusal to do such as irresponsible and inconsiderate. we each seek to obtain the best that we can based upon what we are able to allocate towards such. why would my relationships be any different? i don't settle for subpar goods nor do i present the same to my Owner. He deserves the best me that He can have and i demand the same. i won't settle. as for things that go bump in the night, that is inevitable. when we commit to change we often learn that one victory unearths other things that must be addressed. i don't see this in a negative manner at all, but another opportunity to improve His property. porcelaine

Surrenderwithin -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 12:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amaros In some ways it does, in other ways, not so much maybe, there is no "lifestyle" that axiomatically optimizes your self, there are only lifestyles where you can be yourself. I do think D/s overall probably tends to decreases stress: a couple of recent studies indicate this, and one reason that this might be, IMO, is simply that we labor under so many layers of social expectations, often conflicting; familial, political, professional, etc.that most of the time we are simply acting the way others expect us to act for fear of being accused of some sort of betrayal. Working out some dynamic in your personal life that you can just slip into without having to second guess or calculate the social effects of every little word you say or thought that pops into your head can be very stress relieving, even if not every tiny aspect of it is optimal for you. I think a little differently than this. I never much cared so much about what society thought or social effects. I realize I probably should have, but it was never a priority for me. I have always been blatantly honest, and did not use to understand that just because I had an opinion it did not need to be stressed. As a slave though I have learned to be more conscious of how I express my thoughts and considerate to the feelings and opinions of others. I have to focus more on how I do and say things now than ever and that can be stressful at times. Just me, Maggi

lucylucy -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 1:09:26 PM)
Having recognized, come to terms with, and decided to act on my submissive nature has made me a better person. Absolutely. I feel calmer, more confident, more optimistic, and more secure, and all of these feelings make me perform better at work, make me a more patient and consistent parent, and make me a mature and trustworthy girlfriend.

Andalusite -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 5:11:23 PM)
I prefer to date and be friends with people who inspire me to be the best I can, to try my hardest, regardless of D/s roles. I certainly think that D/s can be a fantastic way to grow, and that it can help us face up to some of those unspoken assumptions we carry with us.

DesFIP -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/10/2009 6:51:35 PM)
I'm going to disagree with Amaros that somehow having a set role to abide by is less stressful. After all I have set roles in every other relationship, mother, daughter, volunteer, etc. It is because if you are at heart submissive, then you don't need to worry about meeting someone's expectations in a good relationship. I meet his expectations without much effort simply because his expectations are for me to be who I am at heart. I don't slip into this, this is who I am when all the rest is removed.

Elipsis -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/11/2009 1:57:02 AM)
I don't feel like being submissive or dominant makes you any more likely to achieve success in behaving as you feel you should any more so than any other kind of commitment you could make.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/11/2009 2:12:11 AM)
Learning to be the Master We wish to be has lead Us to a spiritual path. It has, beyond doubt and without hesitation, lead Us to be a better person as well as a Master. The amount of Self knowledge it requires to be a Master who steps up to the responsibility of egoless obedience dictates that this be true. We do not feel that we would have developed to this depth had We not acknowledged this path within Us... there is a certain feeling of destiny here. Master Fire

allthatjaz -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/11/2009 4:31:08 AM)
Good question and one I really had to think about. I am not submissive and yet live with a very strong D/s dynamic. We have been through all the niceties before moving on to not only live together but to work together too and so we are rarely apart for more than an hour in any day. We absolutely can not help but show our fullness to each other. Yes it has changed me. Its changed me because Steve is ever consistent in how things are. In past relationships I have always successfully manipulated situations to suit me but Steve has been consistent in his zero tolerance to my attempted manipulations. I have up until meeting Steve found success in throwing a strop and getting very verbal if I am not happy about something but Steve has the ability to see it happening before its about to happen and to confront me about it before I have even had the time to put my armor on! Its funny but I never realized when I was busy manipulating, throwing strops and being verbal that I was actually very unhappy with those actions. I did it simply because I could but that part of me has very much changed now because I don't do that anymore and am a much more contented and reliable partner.

oceanwyndsLoves -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/11/2009 5:38:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Good question and one I really had to think about. I am not submissive and yet live with a very strong D/s dynamic. We have been through all the niceties before moving on to not only live together but to work together too and so we are rarely apart for more than an hour in any day. We absolutely can not help but show our fullness to each other. Yes it has changed me. Its changed me because Steve is ever consistent in how things are. In past relationships I have always successfully manipulated situations to suit me but Steve has been consistent in his zero tolerance to my attempted manipulations. I have up until meeting Steve found success in throwing a strop and getting very verbal if I am not happy about something but Steve has the ability to see it happening before its about to happen and to confront me about it before I have even had the time to put my armor on! Its funny but I never realized when I was busy manipulating, throwing strops and being verbal that I was actually very unhappy with those actions. I did it simply because I could but that part of me has very much changed now because I don't do that anymore and am a much more contented and reliable partner. Thank you allthatjaz for your honest reply to Otterswim posting. I have found myself dealing with the same issues you have described in my new relationship with Sir. Otterswim, in my case Sir has seen some of my worst behavior, which saddens and shames me. I had to looked deep within me to first see if this lifestyle is for me and my own submissiveness issues. I am submissive by nature since I serve a Higher Power then me very religiously. To do for a human has been a hard thing for me, but it is also this submissive inside that wants and chooses to serve and put my best foot forward. It does not give me any pleasure to not, instead going against my natural grain seems to harm me personally. The natural me wrestles with the me i always considered myself to be, and i am letting go of the unnatural. Submissive in itself is my realm of expressing who i am, and through a D/s or M/s relationship i can permit her to shine. Thank you for your post, Otterswim. oceanwynds

IronBear -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/11/2009 6:25:22 AM)
One of the things which I suppose a good many Gorean Lifestylers do when they read the books and work out what it is to be Gorean is to build an image of what it means to be a Man. (Ok, I well know that Normal populated Gor with a variety of races taken from their “Golden Ages”) Thus thy can build an image of what they could be and work towards being that Man. I have taken a simpler road; I have limited my searches to The Irish Celts and heroes (Godlings) such as Cúchulain, Fionn MacCumhaill, Goibhniu, Lugh, Oghma, to name but a few. I search the Scottish heroes and Clan Leaders who lead revolts and fought the English to keep their sacred land free. Too I searched the Norse sagas of both the Dansk and the Germanic tribes (later the Prussian) of my forefathers. In all of these I found the common traits of Honour, Courage, Duty, Loyalty and a willingness to die for their beliefs. These then are the core elements of my Codes and Ethics. Not some religious morality. These too are listed in my profile. These are the basic building blocks of what I believe a Man to be and what I aspire to become. My forefathers were to many these days, barbarians and today I am barbarian. Barbarians lived hard, played hard, loved hard, fought hand, and bide hard and with honour. Daily I seek to become better and another pace along the journey to becoming the sort of man I aspire to be. That I am a better man than I was if nothing and I know that to reach the goal is to reach perfection which is unobtainable (unless you suddenly become a Godling or die and are seated in Valhalla) but, it is the journey and how you undertake it day by day which is important and that alone is what will be written and the Weaver’s Web and the end of days.

angeldmort -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/16/2009 3:02:49 PM)
"Having recognized, come to terms with, and decided to act on my submissive nature has made me a better person. Absolutely. I feel calmer, more confident, more optimistic, and more secure, and all of these feelings make me perform better at work, make me a more patient and consistent parent, and make me a mature and trustworthy girlfriend. " read on a starbux cup "the irony of commitment is that it's deeply liberating-in work, in play, in love. the act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around as rational hesitation. to commit is to remove you head as the barrier to your life."-anne morris Anytime you commit to something, you are choosing, conciously, to define yourself by it, and by your understanding of it's limits and requirements. It may not be that being sub or Dom changes you, so much that the choice to commit to it causes you to conduct yourself by a code of behavior and ethics.

NuevaVida -> RE: Being the Person We Aspire to Be (10/16/2009 5:09:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim When our relationships are new, we are all on our "best behavior" - for a short time, we are the person we all aspire to be - our best self, projected for that new person in our lives. We are more loving, selfless, patient, giving, kind, and all those active words that say that we are intent and focused on that other person and their happiness - I believe this is generally true to all humans, not just submissive ones. That best behavior usually lasts through that period of New Relationship Energy (NRE). Once we start to settle in and feel more comfortable, a more realistic day to day version of who we are emerges. That can mean subtle or marked shifts in behavior. Actually, this did not apply to me at all. I was not looking for a relationship (really didn't want one, to be honest) so I didn't feel the desire to "put my best foot forward" or anything like that. I had decided I was just going to be me, flaws, dorkiness and all, and if he liked me - cool. If not, OK. It's not that I was flippant about it, I had simply decided I could only be the me I am today, and that might or might not work for someone else. Same with NRE. We stepped forward very slowly so as to avoid NRE. We both experienced it before in previous relationships and made a conscious effort to just "be." He would be himself and I would be myself and we wouldn't let ourselves get caught up in the "excitement" of discovering someone totally cool who we connected with. That said, it is when I can be true to who I am that I thrive, and when I thrive that I am the best person I can be. For me thriving comes from submitting to a man who is a perfect fit. I was happy before we connected, but now...well, he put it best when he said "I think we've surpassed happiness and reached bliss." Because neither of us is trying to impress the other, neither of us is "on" like that, and we can expect that who we are to each other is simply who we are to each other. I'm not too concerned about settling in with old patterns of behavior, because my behavior is in the present, if that makes sense.

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