RE: Is Carol my slave? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 2:17:56 PM)

I seek to enthrall women.
R



NuevaVida -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 3:36:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

So MAYBE, for someone who's stated his relationship is in such a state that your "slave" doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer, you should be spending far LESS time online pondering such insignificant things, and far MORE time with your wife trying to figure out "what's going on or why" to salvage your VERY REAL relationship versus carrying on like this... post after post... about someone who doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer.



MAYBE you could read that other thread in its entirety and know that's not really an issue anymore.

If Jeff is still reading...this is from my own profile, and sums up how I feel about labels and what we call each other:


Labels are interesting in that there is such a myriad of ways of defining them, depending on one's perspective.  We all have different viewing points, and see things according to our own individual worlds.  I say slap any letters you want on me - D/s, M/s, O/p, BDSM, LMNOP, XYZ - and it makes no difference.  I currently define myself by five letters - HAPPY - and that's all that really matters to me.  Aren't we all in pursuit of happiness in some form or another, after all?


I'm not sure it helps much, but I wrote it when I was having trouble considering myself as a slave again.  Starting from the basic foundation of the relationship and slowly stepping forward from there...leader of the relationship and a loving partner submitting to that leader.  What you call yourselves may be irrelevant at this point.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 4:05:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

So MAYBE, for someone who's stated his relationship is in such a state that your "slave" doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer, you should be spending far LESS time online pondering such insignificant things, and far MORE time with your wife trying to figure out "what's going on or why" to salvage your VERY REAL relationship versus carrying on like this... post after post... about someone who doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer.



MAYBE you could read that other thread in its entirety and know that's not really an issue anymore.



If they've worked things out, then FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC!!!  But MAYBE that doesn't change the fact that this KEY LINE from that post...

"I'm not entirely sure what's going on or why..." 

...isn't still a giant warning flag that less time needs to be spent online and on these boards, and more time spent with their other.  Irrespective of if things get worked out or not (though it's always great when it does), the above line is a STILL a giant clue that MAYBE more time needs to be spent in the REAL WORLD (together, talking, etc.) than online and on these boards.  And once more, the intent of these comments has not been to be mean-spirited in any way.

With regard to the OP?  As is often the case, it's much ado about nothing.  The dictionary defines "slave" as: "A person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person."  And while everyone knows ACTUAL slavery is illegal (and nothing will ever change that), this definition is exactly what many either seek and/or strive for; where others are free to interpret it as they will.  So all this pondering of the word and its meaning becomes meaningless.  To each person, it's defined as they choose.  However, many do seek a dynamic as close to the actual definition as possible.  Whether they attain it or not is subjective.



Elisabella -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 4:09:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My paternal grandfather wasn't the head of the household in any traditional sense. They owned and operated a business together all their life. My grandmother was better at money so she made those decisions. She also did the client contact, he operated in the back room. Things relating to what needed to be done around the house, she made the list. He decided how the work should be done. Cars were entirely his provision.

By Elisabella's definition they were two separate people who had sex legally and who shared finances. But it didn't work that way by their definition.

I point this out to show how incorrect it is to make judgments for other people. The only people who can decide how things operate in a marriage are those in it.


Oooh no that's not what I meant. I must have been unclear when I wrote it. I'm not saying that the only way for people to shed their single attitude is to have a patriarchal traditional marriage.

What I'm saying is that people still keep the 'me first' attitude that's fine when they're single, even after they've entered into a marriage. To give an example - my best friend is a couple years older than I am (28) and she got divorced after about a year and a half of marriage because she and her husband couldn't agree on whether she should go get her Masters degree right after finishing her bachelors, or work to pay off the loans from the bachelors.

Their arguments were as follows: "I don't want to waste time working as a teacher's aide when I can get my Masters' and work as an actual teacher" (her) and "I don't want to have all this student loan debt attached to my name since we're married, I'll help you pay off the old stuff first then you can get more" (him).

They were both only considering 'what I want to do with my life' instead of looking at it as 'what will be best for us, as a couple?' This is totally just my opinion, but I think when you're married to someone there should be a 'we' mindset.

That's pretty much what I was saying - that people who keep the "I" mindset during their marriage aren't really married. Obviously you think of yourself sometimes, every married person thinks "I want this" but when you're making the big decisions (school, work, moving, investing, borrowing money, etc) you should work to override that "I want" instinct and judge it based on a "we" mindset.

And I think that applies whether a household is patriarchal, matriarchal, vanilla or poly. The parts I was saying about a patriarchal house were my own personal preference and kind of got confused into the point I was making. And I did say there was nothing *wrong* with having that type of relationship...I just don't know whether I'd call it a marriage in any sense other than the legal one.



SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 5:52:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

So MAYBE, for someone who's stated his relationship is in such a state that your "slave" doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer, you should be spending far LESS time online pondering such insignificant things, and far MORE time with your wife trying to figure out "what's going on or why" to salvage your VERY REAL relationship versus carrying on like this... post after post... about someone who doesn't even know if she wants to submit to you any longer.



MAYBE you could read that other thread in its entirety and know that's not really an issue anymore.



Is it really just "not an issue anymore" though? Only two people know for sure. Even if Jeff returns and says otherwise, or channels Carol in purple text, it doesn't matter. Unless we are with them in flesh 24/7 and privy to their interactions, no one is going to know what's going on, really. In that context everyone on this board is in the dark. So I'm in agreement with MasterSlaveLA on this; the soap opera should end.

ETA: Now a Jeff & Carol Blog? That might be nice to read once in a while.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 6:15:59 PM)

Jeff, Carol might be your slave...(since that is something for the two of you to decide and certainly NOT this slave, this slave will refrain from answering the OP Topic Line)...but she is your wife, first and foremost.  that you have made very obvious.
 
to this slave, foundations mean a-fuckin-lot.  it is the touchstone of the partnership...the thing we focus on when the going gets tough, the thing that brought us together in the first place...our "home".
 
if the foundation of your relationship is a good solid marriage, this slave firmly believes that you could even be HER slave for a week and it wouldn't destroy what you two have built together, never mind the ups and downs of juggling the marriage with an addded M/s dynamic.[:)]
 
that you posted your challenge/struggle/difficulty here most likely won't stop folks from having pie-in-the-sky dreams and attemtping to make their fantasy a reality, so just try not to let the assholes get you down![:)]




NuevaVida -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 6:41:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


to this slave, foundations mean a-fuckin-lot.  it is the touchstone of the partnership...the thing we focus on when the going gets tough, the thing that brought us together in the first place...our "home".



A-freakin-men!



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 8:11:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My paternal grandfather wasn't the head of the household in any traditional sense. They owned and operated a business together all their life. My grandmother was better at money so she made those decisions. She also did the client contact, he operated in the back room. Things relating to what needed to be done around the house, she made the list. He decided how the work should be done. Cars were entirely his provision.

By Elisabella's definition they were two separate people who had sex legally and who shared finances. But it didn't work that way by their definition.

I point this out to show how incorrect it is to make judgments for other people. The only people who can decide how things operate in a marriage are those in it.


Oooh no that's not what I meant. I must have been unclear when I wrote it. I'm not saying that the only way for people to shed their single attitude is to have a patriarchal traditional marriage.

What I'm saying is that people still keep the 'me first' attitude that's fine when they're single, even after they've entered into a marriage. To give an example - my best friend is a couple years older than I am (28) and she got divorced after about a year and a half of marriage because she and her husband couldn't agree on whether she should go get her Masters degree right after finishing her bachelors, or work to pay off the loans from the bachelors.

Their arguments were as follows: "I don't want to waste time working as a teacher's aide when I can get my Masters' and work as an actual teacher" (her) and "I don't want to have all this student loan debt attached to my name since we're married, I'll help you pay off the old stuff first then you can get more" (him).

They were both only considering 'what I want to do with my life' instead of looking at it as 'what will be best for us, as a couple?' This is totally just my opinion, but I think when you're married to someone there should be a 'we' mindset.

That's pretty much what I was saying - that people who keep the "I" mindset during their marriage aren't really married. Obviously you think of yourself sometimes, every married person thinks "I want this" but when you're making the big decisions (school, work, moving, investing, borrowing money, etc) you should work to override that "I want" instinct and judge it based on a "we" mindset.

And I think that applies whether a household is patriarchal, matriarchal, vanilla or poly. The parts I was saying about a patriarchal house were my own personal preference and kind of got confused into the point I was making. And I did say there was nothing *wrong* with having that type of relationship...I just don't know whether I'd call it a marriage in any sense other than the legal one.



[sm=goodpost.gif]    



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/12/2009 8:12:43 PM)

Amazing how Labels and their meaning take on a life of their own with somebody in a relationship.



DesFIP -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 5:31:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
I'm confused about the social status comment. Do you mean that Goreans have a class system and there are upper class slaves and lower class slaves? And upper and lower masters?


Goreans rank pleasure slaves above kitchen slaves. Which makes me think they all have terrible palates. Because if you look down on those who cook for you, don't expect great meals.



DesFIP -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 5:40:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

What I'm saying is that people still keep the 'me first' attitude that's fine when they're single, even after they've entered into a marriage. To give an example - my best friend is a couple years older than I am (28) and she got divorced after about a year and a half of marriage because she and her husband couldn't agree on whether she should go get her Masters degree right after finishing her bachelors, or work to pay off the loans from the bachelors.

Their arguments were as follows: "I don't want to waste time working as a teacher's aide when I can get my Masters' and work as an actual teacher" (her) and "I don't want to have all this student loan debt attached to my name since we're married, I'll help you pay off the old stuff first then you can get more" (him).

They were both only considering 'what I want to do with my life' instead of looking at it as 'what will be best for us, as a couple?' This is totally just my opinion, but I think when you're married to someone there should be a 'we' mindset.



What that says to me is that they were insufficiently compatible to begin with. Because financial viewpoints are huge sources of disagreements. In my marriage, I was always the one to sacrifice what I wanted and needed for the good of the marriage. But it turned out not to be good for the marriage for me to wind up with resentments.

Instead of both compromising and neither being happy, I'm a great believer in having the same goals from the beginning and finding a win/win solution here. For your friends' that could have been that while she was working and going to school, he could have gotten a part time job and applied that towards their debt.



flogger -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 5:42:54 AM)

To me what you do and say is all that is needed and the action labels itself.



MaamJay -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 9:18:20 AM)

The list of words from the thesaurus posted earlier reminded Me of a friend who worked with My first hubby, he called her serf-baby and she called him Boss-baby! Worked really well. They still use those terms when they meet socially some 30 years later!

Master prefers the word slave so He tends to refer to me that way, and i like it too, yet i am not anyone's dictionary definition of a slave. Being actively Dominant too would make that rather difficult. So i'm somewhere between what most people would refer to as a sub and a slave. That's cool, we don't get strung out over the label. Most of the time He CALLS me "pet" and that's probably nearer the mark really. Owned yes, but absolutely beloved, expected to be obedient but cut a little slack when necessary (and cuteness will ameliorate the odd minor misdemeanour!). Another term would be "living property" ... so much more meaningful to own than a house or a car.

Jeff (if you happen to return), why not simply Leader and follower or Leader and disciple? Would seem to suit you two well!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



tazzygirl -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 9:22:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
I'm confused about the social status comment. Do you mean that Goreans have a class system and there are upper class slaves and lower class slaves? And upper and lower masters?


Goreans rank pleasure slaves above kitchen slaves. Which makes me think they all have terrible palates. Because if you look down on those who cook for you, don't expect great meals.


LOL

Is there a class system? yes, the one the Man determines. among goreans, and im sure someone will tell me im wrong.. but.. eh.. i often am... a slave is what she is told she is. Most gorean men own only one slave, so she is all things. Some own more than one. One may be first girl, mistress to the slaves so to speak. But that position can flip on a whim, the whim of the man.

doubt that helps... lol... but i tried



SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 9:27:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Amazing how Labels and their meaning take on a life of their own with somebody in a relationship.


True. I usually find they take on a life of their own when concepts behind labels aren't considered well enough, or the couple doesn't make sure they are both on the same page with those concepts.



SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 9:35:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

But MAYBE that doesn't change the fact that this KEY LINE from that post...

"I'm not entirely sure what's going on or why..."

...isn't still a giant warning flag that less time needs to be spent online and on these boards, and more time spent with their other



Agreed. I pointed out similar contradictions when Jeff made some pretty bold assertions using his relationship as a template. Hopefully Jeff's absence from this thread indicates his time away from the computer.



tazzygirl -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 9:47:12 AM)

quote:

If they've worked things out, then FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC!!! But MAYBE that doesn't change the fact that this KEY LINE from that post...

"I'm not entirely sure what's going on or why..."

...isn't still a giant warning flag that less time needs to be spent online and on these boards, and more time spent with their other. Irrespective of if things get worked out or not (though it's always great when it does), the above line is a STILL a giant clue that MAYBE more time needs to be spent in the REAL WORLD (together, talking, etc.) than online and on these boards. And once more, the intent of these comments has not been to be mean-spirited in any way.


I have been in that place... the place of not knowing what is going on.. even inside myself. The whys of feeling a particular way... and the helplessness of the man in my life as he watched me go through those feelings.

Sometimes its not always a sign of communication problems. Before i can voice what is wrong, i have to be able to tell myself first. ya know?



LadyPact -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 10:02:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The one you folks will very rarely, if ever see, will be My calling him My second husband.  It just doesn't come from there for Me.



and clearly husband holds something significant for you..... while the term wife... well... it's rather sterile to me and lacks any emotional attachment. It' role that Alandra plays... but I don't see it as a part of her personality or part of our dynamic. But.. then again.... I am not really concerned or focused on thems... but the interactions that occur! Those to me are much more important than what we might label those that do them.


Nice to see you, KOM.  I hope you and yours are doing well.

You are correct.  I do see them as two different relationship roles, but that is because of the way My life is structured.  I'm sure I'd have a different opinion on the matter otherwise.



SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 10:21:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Sometimes its not always a sign of communication problems. Before i can voice what is wrong, i have to be able to tell myself first. ya know?


The question is, what's the culprit? Is it really a mental hurdle to get over in honoring the terms you agreed to and wanted, or is it a problem with assumptions and intellectual dishonesty of the dynamic? The nature of the OP, and some recent contradictions made in black letter, leads me to believe that while it may be (and probably is) both, there is strong evidence to suggest the latter is to blame. But again, who is to really know? All we can know is what is written, and so far, the writing points north, south, east and west.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/13/2009 10:26:31 AM)

Been waiting for the right chance to use this one:

[sm=diethreaddie.gif]


*wishing Carol and her Jeff all the best*  [:)]




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