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Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 6:13:33 AM

Kirata

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From: USA
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Engineers have performed their magic once again. The world is not going to run short of energy as soon as feared.

Excerpts:

America is not going to bleed its wealth importing fuel. Russia's grip on Europe's gas will weaken. Improvident Britain may avoid paralysing blackouts by mid-decade after all.

The World Gas Conference in Buenos Aires last week was one of those events that shatter assumptions. Advances in technology for extracting gas from shale and methane beds have quickened dramatically, altering the global balance of energy faster than almost anybody expected...

The US is leading the charge. Operations in Pennsylvania and Texas have already been sufficient to cut US imports of liquefied natural gas (LGN) from Trinidad and Qatar to almost nil, with knock-on effects for the global gas market – and crude oil. It is one reason why spot prices for some LNG deliveries have dropped to 50pc of pipeline contracts....

This has currency implications. If you strip out the energy deficit, America's vaulting savings rate may soon bring the current account back into surplus – and that is going to come at somebody else's expense, chiefly Japan, Germany and, up to a point, China.

The political and financial implications are interesting to say the least.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/12/2009 6:14:04 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 6:44:10 AM

Thadius

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So does this mean I can go out and by one of those BIG Hummers? Prolly not.

While it is great to read about the improvements in extraction technology (especially that relating to shale), I will wait on the celebrating until it is having a bigger impact on the market.

It sort of reminds me of the ole 2 step... 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Yesterday, I saw a small news bit on the Interior Department going along with the National Resource Defense Council's recommendation to block 60 out of 77 drilling sites, and to completely pull the leases on 8 sites.

Sometimes I think these folks would protest us collecting bird shit for fuel, on the grounds that it was causing interference with the natural fertilization of certain wildflowers...

As always,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 2

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 7:03:06 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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They would find some reason to shut it down, any reason would do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

So does this mean I can go out and by one of those BIG Hummers? Prolly not.

While it is great to read about the improvements in extraction technology (especially that relating to shale), I will wait on the celebrating until it is having a bigger impact on the market.

It sort of reminds me of the ole 2 step... 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Yesterday, I saw a small news bit on the Interior Department going along with the National Resource Defense Council's recommendation to block 60 out of 77 drilling sites, and to completely pull the leases on 8 sites.

Sometimes I think these folks would protest us collecting bird shit for fuel, on the grounds that it was causing interference with the natural fertilization of certain wildflowers...

As always,
Thadius

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 3

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 7:17:20 AM

DomKen

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You guys realize this is about natural gas, methane, right? The US is far and away the largest producer and never should have been importing any in the first place.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 4

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 7:24:59 AM

Thadius

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Indeed we should never have been importing it. If and when I can afford it, and when my energy company allows, I want to convert over to natural gas for my vehicle and hook the filling station right up to the meter.

I am also hopeful that the technology being used for the gas extraction from shale, will help to better understand how we can extract oil from shale in a more economical and environmentally friendly manner.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 5

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 8:08:41 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You guys realize this is about natural gas, methane, right? The US is far and away the largest producer and never should have been importing any in the first place.

That was abundantly clear in Kirata's post, ken. But notice the part that I bolded:

quote:

Operations in Pennsylvania and Texas have already been sufficient to cut US imports of liquefied natural gas (LGN) from Trinidad and Qatar to almost nil, with knock-on effects for the global gas market – and crude oil. It is one reason why spot prices for some LNG deliveries have dropped to 50pc of pipeline contracts....

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 6

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/12/2009 10:41:02 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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If you can heat your house for less with say solar panels on the roof why wouldn't you? This tired old argument I hear over and over again is historically like saying 'You know that new fangled central heating system? Well forget that I'm still going to light a fire each night.' Modern people such as yourselves are not embracing new technology the way your ancestors did. Instead you are clinging to the past and those other nations that are embracing new forms of green technology will steal a march.

Nothing stays the same forever, change is constant.

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Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 7

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 4:45:51 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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When are people going to realise, the solution to sustainable energy will only happen, when there is big business involved. If sums of wealth cannot be made by someone, possibly in a position of favour with controlling bodies, then we will still have a potential energy crisis, as the world it seems turns on money. How many possible viable ideas have been thought up, only to be panned for one reason or another, the reaon in most cases, if you look, is related to finance, not enough money potential in the scheme.

Nickola Tesla had the right ideas, a brilliant scientist, engineer and humanitarian, he created for the benefit of mankind, he failed at promoting his ideas because he was not a businessman and those businessmen that could give funding wouldnt because Teslas wanted to give benefits to the people for free.

So whilst big business controls energy, we are going to be stuffed.

If you got land, a water course, granite under your house, or animals, think to your selves, use what you have at your disposal which is going literally to waste.

The future possibly could not be about big business, our energy could be our own concern, and if that comes to be, hey, no more wars fought over oil, dont need the stuff, roll on Mad Max 3

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 8

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 5:31:07 AM

TheGorenSociety

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If you have the will there is always a way to free one self from the oil and other intensive energy related fuels.I currently am building on my small farm renewable energy that once fully complete will not pay for any fuels of any sort foreign or domestic. I currently make my own bio diesel as well as hydrogen courtesy of solar panels that when not charging my battery bank it is making hydrogen. I also make wood gas and methane off our animals. It is doable, It has taken us about five years of steady projects and we still have at least another five years of projects, but with each project we save a little more money it does add up.It only takes a few people doing this to change.One step at a time

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 9

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 6:03:05 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Where have I written that I am against solar panels? You are arguing against a strawman.

What I am against is higher taxes and any other government mandated disincentives against existing energy sources because among other things they will cause a hardship on poor people. Going "green" is fine, but please don't force the elderly to freeze in winter and cook in summer or to walk wherever they go because they can no longer afford the energy they need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

If you can heat your house for less with say solar panels on the roof why wouldn't you? This tired old argument I hear over and over again is historically like saying 'You know that new fangled central heating system? Well forget that I'm still going to light a fire each night.' Modern people such as yourselves are not embracing new technology the way your ancestors did. Instead you are clinging to the past and those other nations that are embracing new forms of green technology will steal a march.

Nothing stays the same forever, change is constant.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 10

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 6:47:45 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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Here, if you try anything fuel related, it has to be inspected and countless other hurdles thrown in.

A pal lives on a Welsh hill farm, he had a spring in his garden, so the thought was, why pay for water being piped to the farm, when there is water already there, bubbling up from the groundm so he had it tested. The results of which were the water was better than anything that comes out of the taps, so he started thinking about it. So, doing it on the cheap, I was in civil engineering at that time, we sunk a shaft using manhole rings and weight, the old shaft digging method of digging under and allowing the shaft lining weight to sink further. We hit bedrock, about ten meters down and that was it. The muddy water cleared over a few weeks and the clean water was pumped up to the house. As soon as he stopped paying the water bill, thats when it happened, the water company came snooping about and making noises. The upshot of it all was any water in the uk is already owned by the water board, they tested the water and said it was not fit for drinking and needed chemical additives in it, which my pal could not mix himself and they would not supply it anyway. So, the job we did cost a couple of thousand, the materials were cheap, and used the pals for labour, but in the end, it was easier to stick with the inferior tap water. One of the ploys the water company used, was he had a child in the house and using the water, he was harming the child. So you see, here, in the UK despite dwindling resources, and the encouragement from the bosses we should conserve energy, creating ones own supplies, is encouraged, but a minefield for all but the determined. Proving such that big business interest is protected.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to TheGorenSociety)

Post #: 11

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 7:46:19 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Where have I written that I am against solar panels? You are arguing against a strawman.

You can't develop green technology if there isn't the demand to take it up thus you either believe a house should be heated with non renewable fuels or you believe in green technology. They are mutually exclusive at this point in time because the energy companies have no long-term reason to promote them. It goes back to that saying if you could invent a light bulb that lasted forever you wouldn't because waste is more profitable. Government taxation is sometimes needed to promote change.

quote:

What I am against is higher taxes and any other government mandated disincentives against existing energy sources because among other things they will cause a hardship on poor people. Going "green" is fine, but please don't force the elderly to freeze in winter and cook in summer or to walk wherever they go because they can no longer afford the energy they need.

Perhaps the elderly should be given subsidies to help them to convert? Would you agree with that idea if so you will have to pay more to subsidise them. The issues of old people's needs and new green technology are therefore distinct from one another because the elderly already get heating subsidies at least they do here in the heartland of communist Europe.

Nice to see you championing the needs of the poor and elderly I'll remember this for the next time we discuss variable tax rates and Obama 'redistributing the wealth'.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/13/2009 7:57:35 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 12

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 7:55:05 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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With the government going trillions of dollars into debt its not wise for the government to first raise energy costs until they are prohibitive and then turn around and subsidize those who suffer as a result. Further, businesses will either shut down manufacturing facilities altogether or move them to more energy friendly countries, such as China or Mexico... obviously causing massive unemployment locally, and further hurting the poor.

Also, when government jacks energy prices up to please the green meanies everything necessarily becomes far more expensive as a direct result, and so the poor are savaged in myriad ways.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Post #: 13

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 8:08:26 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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You can never compete with the manufacturing machine of China considering their labour costs. The mistake I think you are making here is in not recognising that the car was the last big idea and green technology is the next big idea. The problem is people know car manufacturing drove America to success but they don't stop to ask themselves why that was in that unique era? People wanted cars this is what they needed then, they still need them now but other countries have caught onto this now popular idea and so it is not a big idea anymore that will lead to much future success. Whatever the product someone around the world will eventually make it cheaper.

There is this new era a foot where people globally are excited about green issues and rather than help these new thinking American's with their new ideas you still want to help the companies that had a good idea 100+ years ago and have been standing in the way of progress ever since?

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/13/2009 8:11:04 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 14

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 8:15:23 AM

Sanity

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Government didn't drive cars to the economics forefront with a massive hammer and sickle, did it.

Government only serves to erode the competitive spirit, it attacks business and it wears on economies, its massive bureaucracies hamper and drag, exactly the opposite of what is needed these days.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 15

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 8:19:08 AM

Termyn8or

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This could easily turn into an argument over which government(s) are more oppresive. It's almost as if they are having a contest. I would never have capitulated.

Perhaps unluckily I have no such problem as I don't have a farm, a well or a spring. But if I had, they had better be ready for me. Who the hell are they to tell me what kind of water to drink ? Of course now I also don't have mineral rights. Is water a mineral ?

Don't you have some kind of document there, like the Magna Carta or something whith which to fight the PTB in court ? Or are they like the courts here, that have a very selective memory when it comes to the Law ? Actually a politician here was charged with illegal possesion of a firearm, and court flat out ordered him not to mention the Consitution or the Second Amedment during the trial. Yup, ignore the highest law of the land, no problem.

Thus, we who do most of our own fighting rather than use lawyers (solicitors to y'all over there), have found a few ways around that. We can force things into the record. They have countered by asserting the ability to mark the transcript "Not to be published nor cited". But then, if the case is hidden that way, any judgement of that court is pretty much null and void. To avoid emarrassment and a future ovderturn by a higher court, they pretty much pulled out all their teeth. Orders from the court are what imposes fines and incarcerates people, so lacking that you are free to go.

It's a shame we have to resort to these methods. I think the courts should mete out justice, not ruling that simply keep the fat cats happy.

For example right here in Cleveland Ohio a team has developed a contiuous electric generator. I brought it up here but everybody was skeptical of course. So was I. But then I found out how the thing works, and it is not magic, it is based on sound scientific principles which were brought together in a very unique way. For more info, start by looking up the hummingbird motor. What they are doing is to use somkething that can shield magnetism, supplied by permeanent magnets. The action is somewhat similar to the purpose of the commutator in a DC electric motor, it just acts on the magnetism rather than an electrical connection. There is no magic, and actually sooner or later the permanent magnets will lose power, but these things are up to the point of being able to feed a small business or apartment building for years.

While cost is a big problem, because it will not be cheaper than paying the electric bill, if funded could be refined and be one of the biggest boons to humanity in a long time. They actually got the thing done, I got witnesses. Now what did I hear on the news about it ? Absolutely nothing.

The only real power the PTB have over us is money. This is why I developed my theory of how to beat them. As they stupidly destroy the value of the currency, I think we should help them. Be more self sufficient. Give them less and less, and all the time the devaluation is going on. Let it happen, most of us are living in squalor now. Look around you, just about everything is mortgaged. People used to build their own homes, or buy them for cash. A car loan was unheard of. Now people mortgage the equity in their house to buy a frikkin TV set.

I think the biggest problem "they" have with people becoming self sufficient, is that it will more quickly bring the inevitable end the the Ponzi scheme "they" are running. They want every possible dime they can get until that day is inevitable. Actually I think they are scared. Like any other animal, they react to fear in this manner.

In the old days of the self made millionaire it was said that if you took one guy's million and gave it to a pauper, in a short time the pauper would again be broke and the rich Man would again be rich. Now things are different. Imagine people with big money all the sudden dirt poor. There is no way they could survive. They can't cook a hamburger or change a flat tire (tyre ?). They have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle, and really have no clue how to survive without money.

So what if my mechanic runs across one of these hapless chaps with a flat tire ? Offers say $200 to change the flat. Mechanic says "No good, got any homegrown tomatoes ? Got any meat ? And believe me folks, when it gets to that point, precious metals will be almost as hard to pass. As such, they try to regulate and tax bartering. They want to crush anything they don't have their grubby little fingers into.

If you think the water situation is bad, how about raw milk. The raw milk people here have a SWAT team, and that is no bullshit. Old farmhouse down the road busted for selling raw milk looks like a big drug raid to an outsider.

Enough for now.

T

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 16

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 8:22:56 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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This is a different era because in the past car companies and oil prospectors were far smaller and incapable of flooding the market to devalue the competing work of everyone else.

Different times call for different measures.

Seriously we could have had hybrid cars so long ago: how long has the idea of electrical motors used as generators been around? Did it really take this long for someone to suggest energy could be retrieved through breaking?

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 17

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 8:33:39 AM

Aneirin

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I suppose control of energy means control of people, and Britain is not that far from the time we were but just serfs working on land taken from us by the powerful. Something along the lines of you now work for me or we will kill you, or get of my land sort of thing. Mind come to think of it, exactly what has changed, the ruling classes have largely been replaced by the ruling companies, banks, energy companies, councils etc. The role of the politician it seems is not to serve the people, but placate big business, ( and hope they get something out of it )

Control of energy, really is control of people, and there with it, control of government, an A1, vicious circle that benefits no other than business interests. Hmm, I wonder how many ex ruling class now head big business.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 18

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/13/2009 10:00:53 PM

Termyn8or

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According to my Dad, there is no ex-ruling class. They still rule, but by using old money pretty much own much of the big business around. He said something along the lines of "follow the bleeders", and that meant hemophiliacs. They have enough stock to name the CEO, and that could be themselves as well as any schill or sacrificial goat they may choose.

In turn, the lobbying money comes from them, indirectly. In turn, they feed themselves with our wealth. They then have more lobbying money. Nice gig huh ?

They have reached critical mass and it is time for them to expire. We need do nothing, unless we want to help that process along somehow, but it is very difficult to make a signifigant impact.

People have proposed no drive days, no work days, no something days, whatever. None of it works because We are fragmented and divided. Only by solidarity will we really prevail. Otherwise we are down the tubes. Every kid of today needs to know that, because it will be them in control WTSHTF, and we will all be retired and old, unable to do anything. Therefore what we must do is to teach now. Help the system along with it's own demise and sit back and watch. Watch as every good thing ever built on this planet is destroyed. Watch as the People become sheeple and march to the biggest drum. A drum I may add that has alot of tears in it's head (skin). Things will fall apart on their own, bringing opportunities the likes of which none of us have ever seen. Again our wealth will prove itself, and the class war will be settled.

And in the end, we shall prevail. It's just not going to be easy. First of all we must endure it until enough popular support exists to effect any real change, by whatever means. Then we have to have people who know the score, how things really are, and how to think on their feet. We ain't playing with kids, but they will do anything to stay on top. That is more important to them than humanity, nationalism or patriotism of any sort, even blood family at times.

It is an addiction, power. I know because I used to be afflicted with it. There is no known cure in medical science, but there is one cure. Make a concious effort to get along and cooperate. One must bend at times. The rigid branch breaks, while the supple and pliable survive to enjoy the sun next year.

It might not seem so good that we might have to take some lessons from trees, but if that's the way it is, so be it.

T

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 19

RE: Energy Crisis Postponed - 10/14/2009 1:18:12 AM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
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From: Tempe, AZ
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Bleh. Wake me up when "nuclear" isn't a dirty word anymore.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 20

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