Killing Puppies!! (Full Version)

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UncleNasty -> Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 9:22:31 AM)

OK, sorry for the title. I wanted your attention and as the subject matter of this post seems to have dropped off of most peoples radar I needed a hook. I borrowed the line from an early SNL sit with Buck Henry doing a call in TV show in which nobody is calling. Eventually he resorts to this tactic. It was a hoot. My topic, on the other hand, I consider to be rather important.

The link below is to a video of Bill Moyers Journal that is approximately 30 minutes in length. In this segment he interviews Marcy Kaptur, D. Rep. of Ohio, and Simon Johnson, former Chief Economist at the International Monetary Fund.

Here is an early comment from Moyers, before the interview begins, that gives an idea of his intended topic of discussion:

"It's been a year since the great collapse and both my guests are well equipped to assess what's happened since then. Welcome to you both. "

I rate the accuracy of this video quite high. It could be an informative "watch."


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/watch.html


Uncle Nasty



Anarrus -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 9:48:41 AM)

Thanks for the link. I believe this was on couple of nights ago and I missed it.
Bill Moyer's one of the most credible and respected journalists in the business.

Simon Johnson wrote a lengthy and extensive article for The Atlantic (May 2009)
He certainly has more than enough credentials and expertise to comment about the financial market and it's relationship with our federal government and have it weigh heavily.

The article is here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

Anyone who's more than passively interested in what happened and why it's an almost a sure bet it will happen again, and why not much has changed and won't change, should read this article.

sp edit



Sanity -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 11:00:43 AM)


I didn't see any mention of Barney Frank's part of the financial meltdown in that clip, but I'm not surprised. No one (especially no one from government TV) wants to believe that it was a Democrat who sparked the current economic crisis, or that it was government regulations that were primarily at fault, as opposed to a lack thereof.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/sam-dealey/2008/09/10/barney-franks-fannie-and-freddie-muddle.html

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080924145932.aspx





slvemike4u -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 11:56:43 AM)

Well dammit to hell....if their not going to blame Barney Frank.....I'm not watching it!!!!



Anarrus -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 12:00:49 PM)

oh for-christ's-sake is this gonna be another "it's their fault (points finger at the Dems)... No it's their fault (points finger at the Reps)

Certainly Frank should shoulder part if not much of the blame. I won't disagree with that.
However to point a finger at one particular man or political party seems a little blind.
The fact of the matter is that many governemental positions (the positions that determine and regulate economic and fiscal policy) at the federal level are filled by appointees who either have worked for Wall Street financial institutions or have close ties to them. These positions have been filled and appointed by both Rep and Dem administrations and the people in positions come from both sides of the political coin. 

Here's a good article here if you want to know who to blame.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/toplists/time_magazines_25_people_to_blame_for_the_financial_crisis/time_magazines_25_people_to_blame_for_the_financial_crisis.html

I find it somewhat amusing that you blame government regulations (and yes I know of Fannie Mae- Freddie Mac regulations you alude to), when it's exactly the opposite lack of regulation and sound policies in place, in banking and financial industries, and fully enforced by regulators and their oversight that lead to the meltdown. A lack which began in the Reagan era (and no I'm not pointing fingers at Reps) and continued through every administration including the present one.

"a river of deregulatory policies that is, in hindsight, astonishing:
 
• insistence on free movement of capital across borders;
 
• the repeal of Depression-era regulations separating commercial and investment banking;
 
• a congressional ban on the regulation of credit-default swaps;
 
• major increases in the amount of leverage allowed to investment banks;
 
• a light (dare I say invisible?) hand at the Securities and Exchange Commission in its regulatory enforcement;
 
• an international agreement to allow banks to measure their own riskiness;
 
• and an intentional failure to update regulations so as to keep up with the tremendous pace of financial innovation.
 
The mood that accompanied these measures in Washington seemed to swing between nonchalance and outright celebration: finance unleashed, it was thought, would continue to propel the economy to greater heights."
                                         
                                                source The Atlantic, May 2009 "The Quiet Coup" Simon Johnson
 
So it's not Dems or Reps or green scaled men from Mars to blame. It's the fault of anyone who's greedy enough to want it all and think they can gain it all easily by waving smoke and mirrors...and even more the fault of anyone who's dumb enough to trust in what they say and do and accept it as financial gospel.



mnottertail -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 12:03:36 PM)

So Sanity, that is saying that the shennanigans that the bankers are doing with derivitives and soaking every end of the market, overpricing their securities (the underlying individual mortgages) could have went on forever and the world would be a better place, had we not said you have to give poor people a little taste too?

What about those several million dollar homes and apartment complexes and REITs and whatnot, how do they fit in the picture since Barney would certainly not champion the rich and honorable and overregulated?

And how does that square with the rest of the worlds descent along those same lines? I don't think that Barney Frank is even commonly known in say England, for example, let alone a force to be reckoned with there.........

Ron



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 1:21:29 PM)

I'm surprised nobody's blamed Saul Alinsky yet. Or was that last month that everything in the world was his fault? I'm a little out of date.



slvemike4u -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 1:23:42 PM)

Come on Panda....give Sanity his due...if nothing else he is consistant in his insistance that this is all Franks fault.



Kirata -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 1:28:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So Sanity, that is saying that the shennanigans that the bankers are doing with derivitives and soaking every end of the market, overpricing their securities (the underlying individual mortgages) could have went on forever and the world would be a better place, had we not said you have to give poor people a little taste too?

It is difficult to defend a mindset that prefers requiring thieves and charlatans share their loot over putting the fuckers in jail.

K.



mnottertail -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 1:33:31 PM)

Tal Kirata, perhaps I wasnt clear, I see how you see that flowing now that you clipped it out by itself.

My point there was that the few who were given home ownership of overpriced slums with usurous interest and whatnot, were the first fodder in this, but not what brought the system to its current state of foetid putrid lawlessness.

No, we are on the same page. Suicide or hang for those people who brokered this suffering. (I am all about choice).

Ron



subfever -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 9:57:15 PM)

Excellent find.

I nearly didn't click on this thread, but the subject title seemed so unlike you that I gave it a shot. Glad I did.

Thanks for sharing.



rulemylife -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/12/2009 11:41:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm surprised nobody's blamed Saul Alinsky yet. Or was that last month that everything in the world was his fault? I'm a little out of date.


Is that the guy who is killing the puppies?



Brain -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/13/2009 3:27:23 AM)

This story gives hope something can be done.

Take America back from the banks

Reining in the financial industry's power and greed will be a long, hard-fought war. But it is one that must be fought

The elites hate to acknowledge it, but when large numbers of ordinary people are moved to action, it changes the narrow political world where the elites call the shots.

Those disgusted by the bank bailouts, and the bankers who brought us this recession, will have a chance to make their views known when the American Bankers Association has its annual meeting in Chicago this month. A large coalition of labour, community and consumer organisations are organising a protest at this "Showdown in Chicago".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/oct/12/us-economy-banking-chicago



looking4princess -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/13/2009 4:08:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

This story gives hope something can be done.

Take America back from the banks

Reining in the financial industry's power and greed will be a long, hard-fought war. But it is one that must be fought

The elites hate to acknowledge it, but when large numbers of ordinary people are moved to action, it changes the narrow political world where the elites call the shots.

Those disgusted by the bank bailouts, and the bankers who brought us this recession, will have a chance to make their views known when the American Bankers Association has its annual meeting in Chicago this month. A large coalition of labour, community and consumer organisations are organising a protest at this "Showdown in Chicago".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/oct/12/us-economy-banking-chicago


Hopefully, that will be an interesting and productive protest, but I have little faith that "large numbers of ordinary people" can accomplish much "when moved to action," recalling the 100s of thousands who took to the streets worldwide to protest the imminent invasion of Iraq. A fat lot of good was accomplished by those protests. I wouldn't be surprised if there were not counter protests by "spontaneous" tea party groups in "massive" amounts of 30 or so to suck up all the media attention.

But interesting Post and replies. I wonder when they are going to start putting the "fuckers" in jail. Bernie Madoff needs company. Don't hold your breath waiting for that judgment day! Does anyone know the current permissible credit to capital ratio at the investment banks? Is it not still at 40 to one?



UncleNasty -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/13/2009 6:23:11 PM)

My apologies to anyone offended by my choice of title on this one. A moderator contacted me and asked me not to utilize such attention getting ploys in the future.

Humble apologies are offered.

Uncle Nasty





Brain -> RE: Killing Puppies!! (10/13/2009 7:06:58 PM)

I honestly don't think you needed any attention-getting ploy. I was thinking about posting this after I watched it on TV on Sunday but I have been too busy. Additionally I would like to direct people's attention to the article below and I think it is absolutely outrageous and I must say I am mad as hell and I can't take it anymore.

Goldman Sachs 2009 bonuses to double 2008’s; $23 billion could send 460,000 to Harvard, buy insurance for 1.7 million families

Yesterday, we brought you the insurance company that wouldn't insure a 17-pound infant because he was too heavy. Today, we bring you the investment bank that manages to double its bonuses during the worst recession since the Great Depression.

How much is $23,000,000,000?

For one thing, it's enough to send 460,000 full paying students to Harvard University for one year, or 115,000 for four years.

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/goldman-sachs-2009-bonuses-to-double-2008s-23-billion-could-buy-115-million-iphones-or-send-460000-to-harvard/



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