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Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 9:25:28 AM   
VirginPotty


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Status: offline 		Do you believe there should be a Holiday to celebrate this man or have you read "A People's History" and believe this man is on the same level as, oh, I don't know, Hitler?

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncol1.html

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 5:20:30 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		I haven't read that, but have heard that there were unsavory aspects of what he did.

What do you think?

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 5:36:13 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I haven't read the book but the holiday makes no sense since he did not discover America.


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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 6:08:59 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		There are some un savory moments in Bill Clintons tenure as well. It doesn't mean that we should forget the good things he did in office.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 6:22:03 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are some un savory moments in Bill Clintons tenure as well. It doesn't mean that we should forget the good things he did in office.




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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 6:28:09 PM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are some un savory moments in Bill Clintons tenure as well. It doesn't mean that we should forget the good things he did in office.


Maybe so but he doesn't have a national holiday set aside just for him.  

VP...thanks for the link, it was an interesting read.  I, personally, feel Columbus Day should be rename Day of Exploration.  Think of the explorers thoughout history who could be honored instead of focusing on one who "discovered" a land already populated.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 6:55:22 PM   
Aylee


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Status: offline 		Yes I think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.  Why is there always someone griping about a holiday?  I mean really?  If we stopped celebrating traditional holidays just because someone did not like them, what would we ever get to celebrate?

If you do not like Columbus, and do not like the holiday, then do NOT celebrate it!  What could be simpler?

Me. . . personally. . . I love to watch a parade! 

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 7:17:39 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.republicoflakotah.com/   <--  as I got to know this Indian tribe- I am less enthusiastic over Columbus Day.

In general- most holidays I would scrap.    Empire oppresses indignies people thru out the world- and it goes on even as we speak. 

This and 1/2 the current holidays are obsolete.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 7:25:11 PM   
BKSir


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From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		I just find it odd that we celebrate some schmuck who got lost on the way to India, thought he was there, and screwed everything up.

If anything, we should celebrate Leif Erickson who found the place, looked around, said "Ja, ist grosse und recht!  I go back to Greenland now.  Auf wiedersehen."




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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 7:54:07 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		I've read and admired Zinn.

Your typical status-quo defender tends to dislike him. No surprise there.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:07:32 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

If anything, we should celebrate Leif Erickson who found the place, looked around, said...


"...Well damn! Darn if there aren't already people here who 'discovered' it first!"

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:28:49 PM   
pahunkboy


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too bad we broke it all   ...the "America"

I suppose NOW we will give it back.





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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:37:05 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
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Status: offline 		Okay, so Columbus wasn't the saint we wished he had been. Is any person in history? His discovery marked a major shift in world history and for that reason alone deserves some recognition. Should it be a holiday? I don't know and I don't really care. As holidays go it's not up there on my list of important ones. Mostly it just means I won't be doing any banking, or going to the Post Office, that day. If you don't like the holiday, don't celebrate it. If others want to, it's their business.

I've never understood the snark about Colombus discovering or not discovering America. He, and most of Europe at the time, did not know about the Americas - so for them it was a discovery. I don't see how saying Columbus discovered America diminishes the American Indians in any way (I'd have thought that the dieseases, the land grabs, and the slavery would be more than sufficient).

Edited to add: Oh yeah… I have read “A People’s History…” What a paranoid crock of shit.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 10/12/2009 8:39:45 PM >

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:44:32 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
I don't see how saying Columbus discovered America diminishes the American Indians in any way (I'd have thought that the dieseases, the land grabs, and the slavery would be more than sufficient).

Edited to add: Oh yeah… I have read “A People’s History…” What a paranoid crock of shit.


LOL.

Of course it is a rub to the Indians.  Why would they be happy over him "discovering" America?

We could learn from exploitation- which conveniently is now being used on Americans them self.    The government would kill us off too- when things get inconvenient.    The h1n1 is a good start- mercury squalene and adjuncts..developed in a bio lab.  Lets not get me started.
Hell yeah-  the government would kill off the useless eaters!

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:50:00 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Of course it is a rub to the Indians. Why would they be happy over him "discovering" America?


I didn't say they had to be happy about it - only that calling it a discovery is a matter of perspective. To Colombus and the Europeans, it was a discovery.


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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 8:51:45 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Of course it is a rub to the Indians. Why would they be happy over him "discovering" America?


I didn't say they had to be happy about it - only that calling it a discovery is a matter of perspective. To Colombus and the Europeans, it was a discovery.



I agree.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 9:07:22 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1866496783791986992&ei=6O_TSu2UC5OorQL58ODLCg&q=jordan+maxwell+on+america&hl=en#

this is a good vid- US is a corporation,   ....

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 9:11:09 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Empire oppresses indignies people thru out the world- and it goes on even as we speak. 



And as Zinn points out:

"Nations are not communities and never have been, The history of any country, presented as the history of a family, conceals fierce conflicts of interest (sometimes exploding, most often repressed) between conquerors and conquered, masters and slaves, capitalists and workers, dominators and dominated in race and sex. And in such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, as Albert Camus suggested, not to be on the side of the executioners."


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RE: Columbus Day - 10/12/2009 9:14:56 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I haven't read that, but have heard that there were unsavory aspects of what he did.

What do you think?


I think we've been fed pablum most of our lives.

I think, the older I get, the more I read, the less I know.

I think I'm confused as hell.

I'm still trying to figure out where Belarus is....and I'm sure as shit, I know less than yesterday.

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RE: Columbus Day - 10/13/2009 2:08:35 AM   
BKSir


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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

If anything, we should celebrate Leif Erickson who found the place, looked around, said...


"...Well damn! Darn if there aren't already people here who 'discovered' it first!"


LOL, yep, pretty much.  I'm just saying Leif, because he's the first one we can actually narrow down to an individual.  Not counting the Mongols who migrated over LONG before and eventually became the "Native Americans".  No, not an insult either, it was the Mongols and to a lesser extent, very early Chinese.  That is, if one believes dna similarities that would have obviously been changed and evolved over the course of a couple thousand years, give or take.

That, and how can one not like a guy named Leif, son of Erik the Red?
Granted, they did their fair share of pillaging and plundering too, but they were honest and up front about it.

As far as Columbus Day though.  I don't mark it on my list of "real holidays".  Come on, seriously.  That's like expecting Groundhog Day, or Talk Like A Pirate Day, or St. Swithens Day off.  A good number of people on the street probably don't even know what month Columbus Day is if you would ask them, or why we "celebrate" it.  If one can call tire, tv, furniture and appliance sales "celebrating".

EDIT:  God forbid I ever actually learn to spell "furniture" correctly.


< Message edited by BKSir -- 10/13/2009 2:09:25 AM >

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