RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (Full Version)

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Santoro -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 4:04:57 AM)

The Samurai without a master, a logic and wisdom stretching well beyond the cognitive mind.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 5:00:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

It's not what I was looking for, and certainly not something I would put in my profile, but it is what I found.

Ever since Mistress has come into my life I've become a better, more complete person. She brought out parts of my being I didn't know where there or had been ashamed of. She makes me a better aidan, an aidan that makes Her happy, and I feel like that's the aidan I should be.



This answer is made of love and win.  Of course, look what she had to start with, dude!  [:D]  



LadyHibiscus -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 5:04:52 AM)

And in answer to the OP, I would like to think that all good, lasting relationships improve BOTH partners, in terms of how they deal with the outside world, with intimacy, with life in general.  I've never seen the flow of energy in BDSM relationships to be one-sided.  I'm a smart cookie, but I am not the ONLY source of wisdom and knowledge, or at least I would hope not!  That would get madly tiring.

There is a word for a person who wants to take an unmade creature and make him or her into something:  PARENT.    If you have attained adulthood with nofuckingcluewhatsoever,  I am NOT willing to take that challenge on.   I need to work with other adults, who know that they are not perfect, and I am not perfect, but we can get better together.  I  will lead the way,  I will not create a Galatea/on.



daintydimples -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 5:21:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama



Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad.  I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them.  The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why.  I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card.  But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master.  What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do.  They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live.  They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care.  They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.


Wow. I don't know what it is that's inspired your household tonight, but between the pair of you, you've just written two of the most beautiful and insightful posts I've read here in a very long time. Thank you.

Yours was especially moving. You wrote that as though you were reading it directly from my heart. I"m one of the most self-sufficient, self-contained people I've ever met, and in many ways it only works against me. Almost everyone who knows me thinks, "Oh, that Panda. He doesn't need anyone. He's happy, and always doing so much cool stuff on his own." What none of them ever even imagine is that, paradoxically, it's because I'm so self-contained that I need someone to serve - everything within my own life, my own orbit, is so orderly and so self-sustaining, it's almost impossible for me to find anything inside of me to challenge myself, to inspire passion. I need something else to orbit around, some larger mass, something - as you say - greater than myself to give me a sense of purpose more inspiring than simply managing my own life. Passion - true passion - lies in the regions beyond my orbit, further than I'm able to reach by myself. I know that my life has always worked best when I've had that bright, stable star in the center of my universe, someone whose gravity was strong enough to hold me stable while I spin at velocities high enough to soar through those distant altitudes.

Do I need to be fixed? No. I work fine. I just work much better when I have some purpose greater than myself to serve, and to me, there is no greater purpose than love. Thank you for understanding that so well, and putting it so eloquently.



'nuff said.



CaringandReal -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 5:23:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Yes, I can relate.  Thanks for stating my own opinion on this.  I have to wonder if what's really need, instead of a Mistress, is a Life Coach.



Just as an aside...I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad.  I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them.  The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why.  I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card.  But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master.  What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do.  They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live.  They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care.  They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.

In another life, they might have become the priests of Kybele or some other goddess that demanded lifetime devotion.  Nowadays they tend to go looking for a mortal woman to take on the role.  [:D] 



Nods till my head starts to fall off. The same is true for some submissive women, too. I've seldom heard this motivation so beautifully put. *tosses roses*



pixelslave -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 7:45:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why.  I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card.  But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master.  What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."


Shakti,
While I don't entirely agree with all of what you've written, I think you've stated very closely the situation for many male submissives; particularly those in search of inspiration or fulfillment in their lives through a D/s dynamic.

Many of us have a need to serve. Not being able to have that need satisfied, leaves an emptiness or yearning in our lives for something more that we know is missing for us. There's often a desire to be "owned" and as you've said, to feel as though we're a part of (sic) "something greater than ourselves". I think you've very on target with that comment. I'll add that I think most of us want it to be of a synergistic nature.

In my case, I always have a desire to become a better man in whatever ways I can. I aspire to maintaining ongoing continuous self-improvement and growth on a personal level as a regular part of my life; to learn from my mistakes and the learning opportunities that present themselves. IMO, to feel one doesn't need to improve themselves or has learned all they need to know, is a recipe for becoming stagnant and dull. Its a sure way to quit growing as a human being. I know many of my strengths and weaknesses and will readily share them with a Dominant woman I'm considering having a relationship with. I'd expect her to be willing to share her strengths and weaknesses with me as well. After all, none of us is perfect, despite how much some of us might want to think we are. [;)]

I tend to look for a woman who has strengths and weaknesses that compliment mine, one who can mentor me where I know I need it and would especially like to make improvements. If she identifies other areas that I'm not fully aware of or currently don't see as having a high priority for me to improve upon, I'm open to focusing on improvement in other areas as well utilizing the benefit of her guidance. To me, that's part of submission and learning to satisfy her desires while taking advantage of an opportunity to continue to grow as a individual when the opportunity presents itself. I also look for a woman who's wise enough to utilize my strengths to the benefit of our relationship and in the previous example, one who's willing to share her insights and guidance with me for both my benefit and the benefit of the relationship.

I don't need to be micromanaged and think that's a poor use of a woman's time. I'd view someone who did that as a woman who has too strong of a need to be in control of everything around her. I'll add that for me, learning a woman's preferences is not being micromanaged but instead a part of learning what's necessary to provide anticipatory service for her. I see a good Dominant as akin to being a good manager of a relationship; a woman who can delegate and use our various skill sets to our mutual advantage. Being in a D/s relationship requires trust, not only for the submissive but for the Dominant as well. She needs to trust that I'll handle any assignments she's delegated to me. As an adult, I need to be responsible for meeting the deadlines for any I've been given and accepted. [sm=2cents.gif]

- pixel



kccuckoldmist -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 2:28:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

~FR~
 
My answer is a qualified "maybe." 
 
It depends on the person and whether or not he has realistic expectations of said training.  If he's looking for a crutch, then no.  However, if he has ambition and a reasonable amount of self-control yet needs a little extra incentive to achieve the results he wants, then I might be willing to take on such a project.  For example, if the guy is 100 lbs overweight, eats like crap, and never exercises, but wants me to turn him into Charles Atlas without putting in any work himself...not gonna happen.  However, if he's been trying to drop the last 20 lbs, eats right most of the time but occasionally succumbs to a weakness for fast food, and does moderate exercise but needs someone to push him, then yes I'd consider it. 


I liked this very much.

For me I like maturity and self awareness. To me the biggest thing in these tow things is being comfortable for who you are and not wishing and trying to act like you are someone else.

I think in healthy, loving and happy relationships both people bring out the best in each other. But it still has to be there and not created out of thin air. Most people with submissive personalities drawn to power exchange want to be led and shown how to please their other and if that is what they are inferring then I think that is nice. Generally I would avoid anyone that expects me or anyone else to change or transform them as to me that signifies big issues and certain failure. Another problem sometimes is when a man in fact has a firm idea in his head how he wants to be molded that in reality reduces me to an object and not a person who wants to be their mistress.

But it is about context of what the man is actually saying and not just the words that are mentioned.



pyroaquatic -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 3:29:32 PM)



I want to be pushed. Pushed far beyond what I even thought was possible. Pushed to the point where I even surprise her.

The removal of limitations.



VampiresLair -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 3:39:01 PM)

What I look for is a man who knows he has potential, but isnt sure how to reach it. Not one who knows he is not achieving his potential and needs someone else to make him get there. I see a difference between wanting help, and needing to be dragged or forced into that change. If someone doesnt have the self-startedness to be movng in the right direction before I get them, then trying to make them move is going to be, as the others have already said "a job or at least a chore".

If he wants to better himself for me, he will be happily looking forward to doing so with my help. NOT by fear of punishment or by force of my will over his, but by his own desires.

DV



Andalusite -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 5:45:17 PM)

The title reminds me of this song: http://www.lyricsdomain.com/10/josh_groban/you_raise_me_up.html

I've helped a couple of my previous boyfriends work through milder phobias to the point where they were no longer in physical or emotional distress around those triggers (needles and spiders, respectively). I've helped a couple of them lose weight by becoming more physically active and being more mindful of nutrition. If they expected me to micromanage them, had no willpower, or had problems I just didn't want to cope with, I wouldn't have started dating them in the first place. I don't expect my Master to "fix" me, but he's supportive of me in the areas I want to learn and improve in, as well as areas that he wants me to work on.



Lockit -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 6:37:49 PM)

I've found more than a couple saying this because of some online thing where they think the dominant wants this from them. Kind of a make me what you want me to be and they do the helpless thing to get the attention of those that like that sort of thing. A role play.

In person I don't see it that much or maybe I just don't meet those that come off that way. I will leave my other thoughts for when I have recovered from the activity of the last couple of days.



Andalusite -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 7:03:31 PM)

Oh, I just wanted to add, they brought those things up after we'd been dating for a while, which also makes a difference. I wanted to be with them, we'd already developed a connection, and so forth.



Drifa -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/14/2009 10:13:01 PM)

Honestly, why would anyone want to be in a relationship with someone who was so broken that the dominant partner has to "fix" the broken one?

I think of it more like the medieval knight taking a Lady to be his own, not necessarily as a lover, but he the knight in her service. Knowing that you are out slaying dragons (or at least, mowing the rampaging weeds), rescuing damsels in distress (or the clothes out of the dryer), and defeating villains (and fixing that broken alternator) for the greater glory of your Lady is a great source of self-motivation and esteem.

My Lady doesn't need to fix me. But we both support one another in our respective efforts to grow professionally and personally. We learn from one another, we each have our own roles in the relationship and we compliment one another.



CarrieO -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 6:44:58 AM)

Interesting responses...I was hoping for as much.  There were a couple that stood out for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
That's really the question, isn't it? To be "made" in of itself and from an organic process of serving is one thing, but there is a strange pall cast over the notion when it becomes the centerpiece motive for serving. In essence, the servant is seeking to be served, and in light of that consideration, one of course naturally asks next if the entreaty is even legitimate in the first place, or merely bait to solicit interest.


As I said previously, you're correct in getting to the real question. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kccuckoldmist
Another problem sometimes is when a man in fact has a firm idea in his head how he wants to be molded that in reality reduces me to an object and not a person who wants to be their mistress.


This is what I was eluding to when I put the word mistress in parenthesis, a man who sees a woman/mistress as simply an object...a means to his end.  I have to ask who is serving and who is being served.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
It depends on the person and whether or not he has realistic expectations of said training.  If he's looking for a crutch, then no.  However, if he has ambition and a reasonable amount of self-control yet needs a little extra incentive to achieve the results he wants, then I might be willing to take on such a project.


I agree with this statement.  The chance to work with someone who has the honest desire for change in a realistic manner is very appealling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
I don't want a man who wants me to 'remake' him.  Mostly, because to 'remake' a man into what I want means to change him from what he really is.  That would make him a fake.  I don't like fakes.  I enjoy helping someone else explore their desires and sort out which are true needs and which are just fantasies.  But I'm a believer in "True change comes from within."  If the desire for change is not burning in a man's heart, then nothing anyone else can do will effect the outcome.


Well said.  I agree with the idea of change needing to come from within.  It's my opinion that if a man wants to be a certain way but isn't willing to make any effort to acheive his goal but instead relies on another, be it mistress or vanilla partner, how can the change be lasting?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
I don't need to be micromanaged and think that's a poor use of a woman's time. I'd view someone who did that as a woman who has too strong of a need to be in control of everything around her. I'll add that for me, learning a woman's preferences is not being micromanaged but instead a part of learning what's necessary to provide anticipatory service for her. I see a good Dominant as akin to being a good manager of a relationship; a woman who can delegate and use our various skill sets to our mutual advantage. Being in a D/s relationship requires trust, not only for the submissive but for the Dominant as well. She needs to trust that I'll handle any assignments she's delegated to me. As an adult, I need to be responsible for meeting the deadlines for any I've been given and accepted. [sm=2cents.gif]

 
Thank your for your very well said 2 cents. 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I will leave my other thoughts for when I have recovered from the activity of the last couple of days.


I look forward to your other thoughts, Lockit.  Enjoy your rest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drifa
My Lady doesn't need to fix me. But we both support one another in our respective efforts to grow professionally and personally. We learn from one another, we each have our own roles in the relationship and we compliment one another.


This is as it should be.  I agree...this type of relationship dynamic is best when it compliments both parties involved.

Thanks everyone...interesting food for thought.



SaharahEve -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 7:16:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

So many times I see profiles and postings here in the forums from submissive males asking for a woman (actually, they ask for a Mistress, but that's another topic) who can make them the person they're meant to be.  They will say they are a victim of their own desires or need a woman (read; Mistress) to teach/train them to be what they should be.

My question is... Ladies, would you be interested in a man like this?  One who couldn't handle himself be it sexual, professional, medical/health or daily life? 

For the men... Is this what you seek?  A woman who can train you to be the person you "should" be?

I'm trying to understand this instead of passing judgement.  It just seems to be a recurring theme and I want to understand.  Thanks.


Some want to add to your life. They serve from a place of selflessness and loyalty. You might not mind helping them reach their emotional, spiritual, and physical potential. Others want to steal your life. They self-serve from a place of greed. High Maintenance submissives. Buyer beware. How can you tell the difference? Look for patterns. Ignore words, watch actions. [sm=alarm.gif]
:)



pixelslave -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 7:21:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

That's really the question, isn't it? To be "made" in of itself and from an organic process of serving is one thing, but there is a strange pall cast over the notion when it becomes the centerpiece motive for serving. In essence, the servant is seeking to be served, and in light of that consideration, one of course naturally asks next if the entreaty is even legitimate in the first place, or merely bait to solicit interest.



[sm=offtopic2.gif]

Marc,
This snippet, when quoted by itself, is out of context and as such misleads from the general message conveyed in your original post. Since CarrieO quoted it as above in her overall response to this thread, I wanted to make a comment on it as well.

I think in a D/s or M/s dynamic, both the Dominant and the submissive (or slave) both serve each other. Its a yin - yang kind of thing where one can't exist without the other. The service provided by each is different, but its still a form of service to each other whether or not its thought of as such. In the leather community, this view is very common held. [8|]

- pixel



MarcEsadrian -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 8:48:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

That's really the question, isn't it? To be "made" in of itself and from an organic process of serving is one thing, but there is a strange pall cast over the notion when it becomes the centerpiece motive for serving. In essence, the servant is seeking to be served, and in light of that consideration, one of course naturally asks next if the entreaty is even legitimate in the first place, or merely bait to solicit interest.



Marc,
This snippet, when quoted by itself, is out of context and as such misleads from the general message conveyed in your original post. Since CarrieO quoted it as above in her overall response to this thread, I wanted to make a comment on it as well.

I think in a D/s or M/s dynamic, both the Dominant and the submissive (or slave) both serve each other. Its a yin - yang kind of thing where one can't exist without the other. The service provided by each is different, but its still a form of service to each other whether or not its thought of as such. In the leather community, this view is very common held.



Hi Pixel,

I'm not so sure I agree with your view about the snippet's context, though I will say that anything divorced from the body in which it was written runs the risk of being misread.

With that in mind, I will go on to say you're right in your general viewpoint, however. We all need to get something out of serving. In this sense, there is really no such thing as an "unconditional" servitude, unless of course one desires a slave by force. What conditions are met for the servant by serving? The experiential fulfillment in serving, in being allowed a chance to kneel at the feet of the one who has inspired us so. That, in my opinion, is the only condition I find sacred. For me, it's not about fixing or compensating for a person's dysfunctional character in a grandiose form of D/s therapy. It's true personal improvement often follows with good leadership, but to make it the primary impetus from the outset smacks of something wrong to me. If you need to be spiritually "completed" by serving your Goddess, I understand that, and I don't think the OP is questioning that notion. It's the willful desire to want someone to repair you and perhaps even take away your personal accountability to yourself that I find suspect.

Anais Nin once wrote, "I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, fucked, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.""

While this quote's general nature is obviously not appropriate for "Ask A Mistress", the overall gist of not clinging and "standing on your own two feet" in submission is well articulated and apropos for this thread, I think.



Lockit -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 9:51:53 AM)

I have often made comments in my journal about people who think that a male submissive is faulty somehow and not a man’s man. He is broken and weak and less than other’s. It really is sad that people would view them as less, but even more so when the submissive themselves view themselves as less or weak. From time to time I am known to vent about such!

A submissive personality shouldn’t be seen as less. It is simply a part of their personality and doesn’t have to mean broken and when viewed as broken, I do find that as faulty thinking or perception. It isn't what I see submission or dominance to be in how it would play out.

Insecurity, poor self image or personal issues aren’t exclusive to submissive types and can be found even in dominants. It's a human thing. It is something that should be addressed and worked on and some would believe must be worked out before they can have a healthy relationship. I am not sure I agree with that as I have seen things work out beautifully before everything was sorted out and healed. It helps to be in a great place before you enter a relationship, but I don’t think it is a must. I see nothing wrong with assisting in the healing or growth if those involved can do so. I do see something wrong in people thinking that a dominant is a replacement for personal emotional homework and accountability or even professional assistance.

Most have a problem with someone placing blame on others rather than looking at themselves and seeing the blame they may have in a situation. I see using a dominant as a healer, as a way of diverting the blame in a sense. It is like they are saying I cannot do this and need someone to work it for me so that I can do it and then if they don’t do it or are able to work it out, somehow some blame could be laid at the feet of the dominant. I don’t see looking at someone else to cure our ills as being personally accountable. I see it as a cop out. Depending on someone else to comprehend it all, see a way to make it all change and all that it takes to grow or heal personally will provide an environment where I think some steps may be skipped and therefore the lesson in the process of it all, could be lacking.

We all have area’s we could work on or could use some assistance in, but we must be looking at those things ourselves and not depending on another to do something we are too lazy or fearful to look at and face on our own. If we aren’t trying to find solutions on our own and are looking to someone else to do it for us or force us to do it… that isn’t being responsible or accountable and makes for a very poor partner. (Some can be facing their personal work and still depend or expect too much of others.)

I believe there is far more involved than I could ever get into in a post here, but I think some of this manifests because some are looking to continue to bow out in their own life and emotional homework and because of how some view a submissive and quite often a male submissive. I am not interested in doing someone else’s emotional homework for them. I am willing to assist in many ways, but if there is too much that still hasn’t been seen, addressed and done by the age of someone I would date… I have to wonder what they have been doing all these years and why they allowed things to go for so long. Harsh in some situations maybe… but damn… I am not going to partner with someone with that much work to yet do. I may help as a friend or lay counselor in some way, but I won’t be in a relationship with them.

And for whatever reasons… it is far too common a request or expectation.



LadyPact -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 10:00:10 AM)

Thank you, Lockit, for saving Me several hundred keystrokes!



PeonForHer -> RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" (10/15/2009 10:21:56 AM)

Insecurity, poor self image or personal issues aren’t exclusive to submissive types and can be found even in dominants.

Gawd.  Perhaps people who do think that personal issues are exclusive to sub types would argue that a rapist doesn't have personal issues?  There are so many loons giving us their cretinous amateur psychology these days . . .

My two pennies' worth: At one end are the broken types who want to be fixed.  In the middle are those who want someone to make already pretty OK lives complete.  Vanillas want that too.  They're frequently heard to want husbands/wives/families in order to fulfil a desire to exist for people other than just themselves.  Subs want to give something, beyond all that, to their dominants.  And at the other extreme, maybe, there are subs who want dominants who'll satisfy the same need in them as those who join religious cults. (And these may even be ostensibly well-sorted-out people.)  Jeez, there may even be dominants who actually see themselves as the micro-equivalent of the Rev Moon . . .



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