RE: "Under consideration" (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:06:33 AM)

Sorry, NZ, but I'm going to respectfully disagree.  I've used the term for years and in context, I believe it's a completely appropriate term.

In fact, I happen to think the opposite from your OP is how I see the matter.  It is more the recognition that a dynamic is forming and it is where both can see if the arrangement is what *both* want.  It's a time to learn on a more in depth level if that particular pairing is a good fit.  It's not a term that I use to get all of the benefits with none of the commitment.  It's more about the beginning of the commitment that I believe is going in the direction of collaring.

The perspective that a lot of people don't apply to the term is that it isn't just the D side that is doing the considering.  It goes for the s type as well.  Am I really the person that they want to serve?  Will they be content in the arrangement?  How do they feel about living with My version of protocol or can they feel fulfilled with a place in My poly family.  There's a big difference in being submissive and being MY submissive.  That time period of under consideration allows the sub to know if that is what they really want.  Not just a collar, but MY collar.

While you may think it's bunk, I see it very much the same as vanillas might see an engagement period or even living together without marrying.  Are those people showing no commitment as well?  I'm sure some people are, but others aren't.  Rather than the term, I might suggest that a closer look be had on who is using and how they are using it to determine whether it is worthwhile or not.



impishlilhellcat -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:14:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

After an interesting conversation, I have come to the conclusion that "under consideration", at least from the side of the D-type, is bunk.

Really. It's just a way to put a prospect on layaway so that other buyers can't purchase it. In addition, it offers up the illusion of commitment from which a D-type can then command from the s-type what the expected obedience should be if there was a genuine relationship without having to actually put anything on the table.

'Test drives' are one thing, where there is an understood expiration date for an attempt to see if compatibility would be functional in a real relationship environment between two people, but this 'under consideration' is just plain silly. Now, don't get me wrong...I place the responsibility heavily on the s-types, since it is their decision to adhere to this nonsensical ritual that gives it its power...but, really.

So...yeah. There wasn't a question in there but that doesn't mean you can't jump into the talk and point out where you think the same or differently. Obviously people who have played with the 'under consideration' thing and then gone on to long-term relationships will be likely to look back on it fondly, but I think that's often just an irrelevant path that just happened to intersect this concept at the beginning.

Anyhow...feel free to discuss. [:)]




I've always thought under consideration was kinda of a crap shoot for lack of a better word. What you can't tell if you like me or my personality or how I behave? What is this middle school where you have to think about going out with me for three years before you can move to the next step in a relationship? I am not an apartment you don't put a deposit down on me so that no one else can take me. We are both adults we should both be used to understanding how we feel and processing that appropriately. Either I fit your criteria and vice versa. People can change a little bit. To change drastically you need serious circumstances, but most often if someone doesn't fit who you want them to be putting them under consideration and training them for a length of time just isn't going to do it. Don't get me wrong I fully enjoy the getting to know you phase and it should be done with a decent amount of length just as any other relationship. But how many dates are you going to go on with someone before you call them your boyfriend or girlfriend.


This is just my opinion on the subject.



Dominatist -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:15:22 AM)

We've had this discussion before and it is a all too often a ruse. Designed to do just what most here have suggested...stash the unsuspecting while the other goes about playing the field looking for more.



AnimusRex -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:16:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

-FR-

Well take my opinion with a grain of salt since I've never been 'under consideration' but I think it has to do with the fact that people on internet BDSM sites have a tendency to jump into relationships.

Like, in vanilla dating (and in BDSM dating for those of us who didn't coat-check our sanity at the TOS tick-box) you can go out with someone and not be their boyfriend/girlfriend/committed partner. That's what normal people do - date a bit to see if you're compatible, then commit.



Well put.
"Under consideration" is a bit of silliness which arose as a way of correcting another bit of silliness, the "hello nice to meet you now will you be the love of my life" tendency.
There is a tendency within BDSM to disregard the norms and conventions of vanilla dating; I have seen very few BDSM couples who call what they do "dating"; when this intermediate step is removed, there isn't a whole lot of distance between the first meet and the lifelong collar.
So the intermediate step of dating was re-introduced under a different name.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 9:15:44 AM)

quote:

After an interesting conversation, I have come to the conclusion that "under consideration", at least from the side of the D-type, is bunk.


I think that it is all in how you use it. For some, it may be a way to "Eat one's cake and have it too", but for others (our household is a good example), it really -is- a 'consideration" time -- an opportunity to interact within the household as if one were a full-fledged member, participating in everything except the governance-related aspects (yes, our servants have their own governance process -- you sort of have to when you have a lot of people living together... there has to be a way for people to have a quick, reliable, and accessible way to handle grievances or manage 'flow' so that things move smoothly). I think that "consideration collars" can be beneficial, when they're used as an opportunity to see how someone new is going to fit into the flow, as long as a couple of things are in place.

1. There has to be, IMO, a "no harm, no foul" clause, whereby either party can say, without rancor, that the situation just isn't working for them, and can leave the situation without a herd of "drama llamas" invading the household. (I -adore- that phrase... picked it up from my daughter-in-law-to-be... Drama Llama... reminds me of the llama in The Emperor's New Groove")

2. There has to be some process in place to work through non-terminal problems that come up that won't necessarily mean that the relationship won't work... unless they're not dealt with.

3. Consideration has to work both ways -- the no-harm, no-foul has to apply to both sides of the kneel, so that a servant who isn't happy can feel as comfortable in walking away without having to feel like xhe's going to be called a poser, faker, wanna-be or whatever as the Keeper is in saying that a particular person won't fit well into our house.

Used as a genuine tool for evaluating a given D/s situation, consideration collars can provide the peace and space to fully explore the relationship and the dynamic, and, frankly, I don't consider them 'bunk'.

Dame Calla



Justme696 -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 9:18:41 AM)

FR
To some it is an engagement....to others it seems to be "a fuck trail".
It can be everything



Mercnbeth -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 9:20:31 AM)

we had an "under consideration" moment about 2 hours after we met for the first time in person.
 
several local hotels were under serious consideration...[:)]



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 11:24:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

After an interesting conversation, I have come to the conclusion that "under consideration"... is bunk.



Seriously... you had to actually discuss this prior to realizing the "under consideration" thing is bullshit;  you actually thought otherwise prior to your "interesting conversation"?!!  Ummm.... ooooooooooooooooooookay.  Surprising.

I'm curious... do you still buy into the "Under Protection" nonsense, or is that one pending a future "interesting conversation"???

BTW, here's the ABSOLUTE BEST quote on this topic I've ever seen in these forums:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I am here to announce that I have placed the package of Oreos residing in my kitchen "under protection", until later today, when I'll certainly place them "under consideration", along with a glass of milk. What happens next is not for the faint of heart.


LOL[sm=rofl.gif]




kiwisub12 -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 11:34:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

we had an "under consideration" moment about 2 hours after we met for the first time in person.
 
several local hotels were under serious consideration...[:)]



so what you are saying is that you strung several hotels along, raising their hopes until you found one that suited.

FOR SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



ranja -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 11:37:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

we had an "under consideration" moment about 2 hours after we met for the first time in person.
 
several local hotels were under serious consideration...[:)]


i seriously hope you did not book any rooms provisionally



afterforever -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 1:08:59 PM)

I'm sure there are situations when "under consideration" is actually used appropriately. However these days it seems to be entirely meaningless. After two or three messages and not even any talk of a face-to-face meeting yet, a D-type informs me that I am "under consideration", I am no longer to talk to any other Ds, I am to put ~*^^####under consideration###^^*~ on my profile, etc etc yadda yadda. It's usually a pretty good way for me to immediately "consider" him/her no longer in the running.



GraciousLady -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 1:35:34 PM)

I have never told a submissive I had under consideration they could not see others because they were not collared. I have never had an online relationship either. I don't understand the dynamic (make believe) of on line relationships nor do I understand why a submissive would give up their everything to a person that they have no formal agreement/relationship with. I guess to some the consideration thing is not a serious matter. It is to me and believe me, I have had sub's tell me they did not think they were the one for me. In other words, they were not interested in ME. So, consideration, done right, is a useful tool in learning about each other and deciding if you'd like to move forward with each other. Also, I never play with a submissive until the consideration phase is over. We have to like each other and agree on many points regarding the lifestyle and life in general before play occurs. In all lifestyles people get way to involved way to fast.



littlewonder -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:23:08 PM)

"under consideration"..the bdsm catch phrase for the term "dating".

Seems people in bdsm need those special terms to make themselves stand out.



Elisabella -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:23:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

"Under consideration" is a bit of silliness which arose as a way of correcting another bit of silliness, the "hello nice to meet you now will you be the love of my life" tendency.


Hehe that bolded part made me LOL. Literally.



Elipsis -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:30:40 PM)

I had to think about this one for awhile but I've concluded that there are a few legitimate uses of the "under consideration" status.

Speaking as someone that treats the interaction as a relationship first and foremost and a power exchange of any sort as secondary to that, I would be fine with "under consideration" status as a mutual acknowledgment that we are going to hold off on sparking any new romantic flares with other people until we determine what is going to happen between the two of us.  I see it as an online equivalent of "exclusively dating" without either party yet being fully committed to a relationship yet... yet serious enough that they aren't trying to meet any other people until a decision is made.

I don't see much of a point to declaring yourself "under consideration" as a submissive when the dominant has made no such commitment... that equates to allowing them to shop around on you while you hope that you turn out to be first fiddle.  I understand that as part of the submissive dynamic this can be used as a test, but given how exploitative it can be for the reasons stated in the OP I don't see such an implementation as legitimate.  If I were asked to do this as a submissive without any sign of committment from the dominant party, I would probably tell them to get fucked.  Would that make me a poor submissive?  Would I fail the "test" because of such an attitude?  Perhaps... but that would speak to the larger failure of someone trying to jam a power dynamic in my face before establishing any kind of real relationship.  As a dominant were I to ask someone to do this I would simultaneously make a statement such as "I'm no longer looking... I have someone under consideration..."



SirJ40 -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/14/2009 8:31:07 PM)

I fail, too, in understanding the "one-sided" version of this. As far as I've ever figured, "under consideration" meant that both parties were (for the moment, at least) discontinuing the search while they explored their compatibility.
I also disagree with the "ok, you're off the market for a while as I think about it and continue to look" thing.. "under consideration" should mean "we've talked, we're convinced that there could be something worth pursuing, so we're both/all/together focusing on that until we figure out what's going on, please stand by".
What should the Collar of Consideration be made of? As far as I've ever understood it.. blue. Something blue.



variation30 -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/15/2009 1:07:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

After awhile I thought about it and decided that was just taking me off the market and keeping me as a back-up while he shopped around to see if he could find a shinier model.  Plus, he didn't want me to keep looking even though he was.  So here I was in limbo while he kept searching and I knew he really didn't want me, he just wanted a back-up for just in case.  I'd never do it again.


whenever I saw the whole under conideration jive I've thought it was either that or a guy is desperate to get a girl off the market until he can seal the deal. I'm sure to some, the 'don't answer any dark colored messages' directive seems like a power dynamic...but it just comes off as a weak attempt at trying to block competition.

and yeah, most of the blame on this silly little game falls to the subs who abide by it.



justagirlinzh -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/15/2009 5:00:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

"under consideration"..the bdsm catch phrase for the term "dating".

Seems people in bdsm need those special terms to make themselves stand out.


Yes, this too.

But a guy is "under consideration" the moment I fancy him, and I think even in vanilla dating it's much the same. I suppose the term means different things to different people, but I have found that it usually means the D is trolling for s-types while keeping one or more on a string, so that the s-type feels special.



porcelaine -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/15/2009 6:54:34 AM)

i'm going to answer this objectively since my opinion on the subject was decidedly negative in the past. i have never encouraged the ones i've mentored to engage this way or accept offers when given. as such, here are my thoughts.

i believe communication is paramount. i don't think the exchange should hinder this. if the dominant and submissive have become acquainted and interest has developed on both sides, this should be expressed. particularly when you factor in other channels if their original point of contact was not in person. from that point if the dominant wishes to place the prospective party under consideration, he needs to explain what that implies. as this thread has demonstrated, opinions vary and misinterpretations can occur. all of this can be remedied by talking. parameters should be clarified that include the following:

time frame: the D-type needs to give a realistic time line for the consideration.

expectations: if specific tasks will be assigned or other duties given these should be clarified. behavioral requirements should also be noted so no confusion exists.

corrections: should infractions occur due to the above or involve other factors, how are they addressed?

outside interests: if the D-type is soliciting others he should be upfront. if he prefers that the s-type discontinue discussions with prospects while under consideration, this should be conveyed.

purpose: the s-type should have a clear idea of why the consideration is being offered. spelling this out alleviates a lot of misunderstandings.

termination: if either wields the authority to terminate the consideration it should be noted upfront. if termination is based upon certain precepts that the dominant has, he should articulate them so the submissive is aware what will possibly cancel the arrangement.

feedback: no one is a mind reader. communication is necessary and most submissives are eager to please. if she's doing a good job, say so. if there are concerns, express them.

follow through: when the period of consideration ends a discussion should occur. i don't believe it should be one-sided, meaning the dominant makes a decision without ever hearing the submissive's comments. both are considering the other and concerns should be openly discussed. if interest remains but progression is not possible, an explanation should be provided that offers insight on what is lacking. what occurs from this point is highly individual.

it is my opinion that it is possible to utilize this in a positive manner if thought and consideration are exercised. when both parties are actively involved in making an honest exploration and approach the concept sincerely without ulterior motives, it can be the springboard to something better. but communication is a must. doing so alleviates a lot of hurt feelings, misconceptions, and frustration for everyone involved.

porcelaine



LadyPact -> RE: "Under consideration" (10/15/2009 7:25:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

"under consideration"..the bdsm catch phrase for the term "dating".

Seems people in bdsm need those special terms to make themselves stand out.



Yes and no.  While that may be true in some cases, it certainly doesn't apply across the board.

In My own case, I don't 'date'.  To Me, dating is a term that is used in the intransitive verb form of time spent with someone with whom one has a romantic interest.  Since My interest in S/m, D/.s, and most other things have no basis in romance, I would find it highly inaccurate to call the time I spend with play partners or potentials as dating.

This doesn't mean that I am not interested in them as a whole person or that everything we might do together would be BDSM related in some way.  It also doesn't mean that My interactions with others are emotionless or void of love.  Very specifically, it speaks to the fact of non romantic involvement.



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