RE: The young and the old BDSMers

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allthatjaz -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 3:01:50 PM)
Thanks for the replies. I think there will always be TNG groups, Ladies munches, Domme munches and I don't think there is anything wrong with that but the observation that this guy spoke about last night was interesting and one that I thought would make a reasonable debate. From the replies it looks like just about everyone is chilled about it and so am I. Justme wrote...Older people forget often how young they once were and that brings me to ask, is that why some people are so intolerant of the younger Doms on here?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 3:41:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz ...the older generation were responsible for causing this divide by continually putting down the younger BDSMers. I tend to agree with this. On the one hand I think its great that we are getting the younger crowd through. The days of going to clubs full of oldies are quickly diminishing and we are seeing more and more fresh young faces joining us. I haven't personally seen many "oldies" (as you refer to those in their 30s and upwards) "putting down" those in their 20s... but rather, TNG groups popping up to avoid the hassle of the youngins needing to repeatedly fend off advances from the "oldies". More about just wanting to stick to your own crowd and avoid the "Ewww... grandpa hit on me" factor. I will also add that, historically, those who KNOW they truly desire to live under a power exchange dynamic (as opposed to just experimenting with it) tend to be older because they've: 1) Had sufficient time to test various waters and have settled on their preference. 2) Finally learned about the dynamic (i.e., many will freqently say they've always had these feelings, but didn't even know what it was, let alone what to call it. Additionally, many forget the impact the internet has had by making this dynamic more accessible... and the internet hasn't really been around all that long.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 4:21:47 PM)
quote: Justme wrote...Older people forget often how young they once were and that brings me to ask, is that why some people are so intolerant of the younger Doms on here? I think that some people are less patient than others with dealing with newcomers. It's a fact of human existence that some people just aren't cut out to be patient teachers and mentors. I think it's important to recognize that, though -- It's been my experience that some folks -try- to teach/mentor when they're not cut out for it, because of the emotional bonus of having one's experience recognized. Yes, it's a rush... but it comes with a heavy responsibility to be patient with someone who may need some reinforcement and will -definitely- need some answers... probably at inconvenient times... for a while to come. Every single person out there was once a rank beginner. It's easy to forget that after hearing the same questions five bazillion times... when it gets to me (and it does sometimes!) and I can't be good at mentoring, I step away until I can... the newcomers are -always- going to be out there... and the best teacher is time and the second best is experience. Dame Calla

LadyPact -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 5:12:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Thanks for the replies. I think there will always be TNG groups, Ladies munches, Domme munches and I don't think there is anything wrong with that but the observation that this guy spoke about last night was interesting and one that I thought would make a reasonable debate. From the replies it looks like just about everyone is chilled about it and so am I. Justme wrote...Older people forget often how young they once were and that brings me to ask, is that why some people are so intolerant of the younger Doms on here? I've said this on other threads, but it might apply. There is a difference between "here" online and how things work in the real world. There are a lot of us out there who have no problem teaching when we see that folks are invested in some way. On the net, not so much. There really aren't enough hours in the day. What Calla said here, I'm 100% in agreement with: Every single person out there was once a rank beginner. It's easy to forget that after hearing the same questions five bazillion times... when it gets to me (and it does sometimes!) and I can't be good at mentoring, I step away until I can... the newcomers are -always- going to be out there... and the best teacher is time and the second best is experience. I happen to be a pretty good teacher. I've stepped back from it a lot. Even more than say, five years ago, there are more people now that want instantaneous gratification about answers supplied and skills acquired. With a lot of things, it honestly doesn't work like that. Folks who are willing to practice what is taught are becoming rare and they are often drowned out by the white noise of a hundred others who aren't nearly as sincere as those very few are. It can be very disappointing and take the joy out of teaching in the first place.

slaveluci -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 7:26:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Fr older people forget often how young they once were. True and a lot of young people seem to be blind to the fact that they will too one day be "old." If you can call over 35 "old."[8\|] If so, I'm old[&o] luci

littlewonder -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 8:18:06 PM)
I find I have very little in common with those who are much younger or much older than me. I seem to find that I am much more comfortable with those in my own age group give or take a couple years in either direction. I think it's probably the same with most people. The generation gap makes it difficult to communicate because the way they grew up most times is completely different and they can't relate to each other. I have this problem whether it be with bdsm or anywhere else.

Elipsis -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 9:21:00 PM)
I feel like I can't my own generation... we'll see how that goes...

Acer49 -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 9:33:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz This topic comes about after a recent conversation with a friend of mine on the scene. He is in his 40s and his sub in her late 20s. They do most things together and are clearly very much a pair but recently she has been invited to a local under 30s munch. There are many under 30 and under 35 munches in the UK now. They have told him that he can go but won't be able to sit with the group. If he goes he will have to hang around at the bar. He wasn't complaining and said that if anything the older generation were responsible for causing this divide by continually putting down the younger BDSMers. I tend to agree with this. On the one hand I think its great that we are getting the younger crowd through. The days of going to clubs full of oldies are quickly diminishing and we are seeing more and more fresh young faces joining us. I have always embraced the part of BDSM which is not ageist or was I living under some kind of illusion? I am not talking about a young sub not wanting to date a young Dom 'because of inexperience'. We all have our personal preference when it comes to love matching. I am talking about the mouthy older generation that put down the younger folk, especially young Doms on boards such as this. I have seen the followers of the 'old guard' preach from their parapets that these young Doms can't possibly know what they are doing. Is this preaching partly responsible for creating sub groups and are these sub groups now becoming ageist? A new club has started in London. I would say its a fairly hard core venue with a great underground feel about it and its most certainly not ageist. The interesting observation several of us have made is that its full of young hard core players. Because of this several older Dom/Dommes have started moaning loudly about this and berating the club for being like a youth club. This in turn is putting off the older BDSMers who don't want to look out of place amongst so many fresh young faces. Who is causing the divide here? I think to an extent, if there are enough people involved then sub groups will naturally form but do you think we will reach the stage where young and old will no longer mix? I think its a great shame if it does but I for one won't be blaming the younger crowd because when you see the shit they have to take, who could blame them? They have told him that he can go but won't be able to sit with the group. If he goes he will have to hang around at the bar Yes, this is definitely the mature way to treat someone...NOT, what are they afraid of? He is going to give the some disease? said that if anything the older generation were responsible for causing this divide by continually putting down the younger BDSMers And he is guilty by association, another mature act. What does trash talking on a public board have to do with a Munch? I have always embraced the part of BDSM which is not ageist or was I living under some kind of illusion? When I go to a club I could careless, young, old does not matter to me as long as they respect my space we will get along fine I am talking about the mouthy older generation that put down the younger folk, especially young Doms on boards such as this. I have seen the followers of the 'old guard' preach from their parapets that these young Doms can't possibly know what they are doing. Is this preaching partly responsible for creating sub groups and are these sub groups now becoming ageist? What happens on the boards has nothing to do with the clubs unless you are saying they are accosting the younger while they are attempting to scene. The interesting observation several of us have made is that its full of young hard core players. Because of this several older Dom/Dommes have started moaning loudly about this and berating the club for being like a youth club. This in turn is putting off the older BDSMers who don't want to look out of place amongst so many fresh young faces. Well if the older people have such low self worth issues, then they need to use a club that they feel comfortable in, Young or old, if you pay the fees, you have a right to be there As far as it ever being separate, it is not going to happen, while there are some young woman who are there to scene but there are also women there who are looking for something a little different, they are looking for guys who can take them out to nice places, go to nice dinners, men who's interests consist more than comic books, video games. Men who have money and old guys got it and young ones generally don't. This whole thing is just another sad example of how people spend too much time worrying about what other's think of them. To the OP, you experience with the younger crowd may be different than others. I have listened to the 25-28 year olds, and the maturity level is simply not there in the people I have run into. Just today I saw a profile of a 22 dominant, not only could she not post a two line profile without three simple spelling errors, she them attempted to list all her activities as "expert" and she wondered why she was not getting any takers. I have a hard time respecting and trusting that type individual. Now I think the older groups need to keep their mouths shut, they are not going to be involved with them. Some people are going to get hurt because someone actually believed that an individual was experienced when he didn't, but that is life. If you come at me with a chip on your shoulder, you are on your own. As long as you treat me with common courtesy, we will be fine. If you don't want our advice that is fine, but when you put out someone’s eye or rupture a kidney, or you screw up a humiliations scene, and the person freaks on you and you are left there holding your privates wondering what to do or you let someone go into a diabetic comma because you did not investigate your playmates history or you didn’t have proper first aid kit so now the person is dying because you showing off, and accidentally hit an artery don’t come whining to anyone.

porcelaine -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 9:38:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Folks who are willing to practice what is taught are becoming rare and they are often drowned out by the white noise of a hundred others who aren't nearly as sincere as those very few are. It can be very disappointing and take the joy out of teaching in the first place. but when you come across those that refute this comment it truly is a wonderful experience. i know my mentor was fortunate and she felt very much the same. if anything it i did too much, but that's another thread. [;)] i find i'm very selective about who i take on. i spend a lot of time getting to know the person first, their habits, and listen to what they're seeking in and outside of the lifestyle. i have found this approach works well, particularly in situations that will be long term. i'm hopeful that your talents won't go to waste. it would be a sincere pity if no one benefited. porcelaine

looking4princess -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/14/2009 9:44:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Fr older people forget often how young they once were. It may surprise you to learn we continue to feel young inside. We do not forget. We do not grow old within. We may slow a bit but our passions are still there. It is often a surprise when someone reminds me of my age. I remember my chronological age only when I happen to pass by a mirror. lol! Then, holy shit! Who is that old dude? It is the exterior that betrays us. Sigh. [;)]

variation30 -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 12:54:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz This topic comes about after a recent conversation with a friend of mine on the scene. He is in his 40s and his sub in her late 20s. They do most things together and are clearly very much a pair but recently she has been invited to a local under 30s munch. There are many under 30 and under 35 munches in the UK now. They have told him that he can go but won't be able to sit with the group. If he goes he will have to hang around at the bar. He wasn't complaining and said that if anything the older generation were responsible for causing this divide by continually putting down the younger BDSMers. I tend to agree with this. On the one hand I think its great that we are getting the younger crowd through. The days of going to clubs full of oldies are quickly diminishing and we are seeing more and more fresh young faces joining us. I have always embraced the part of BDSM which is not ageist or was I living under some kind of illusion? I am not talking about a young sub not wanting to date a young Dom 'because of inexperience'. We all have our personal preference when it comes to love matching. I am talking about the mouthy older generation that put down the younger folk, especially young Doms on boards such as this. I have seen the followers of the 'old guard' preach from their parapets that these young Doms can't possibly know what they are doing. Is this preaching partly responsible for creating sub groups and are these sub groups now becoming ageist? A new club has started in London. I would say its a fairly hard core venue with a great underground feel about it and its most certainly not ageist. The interesting observation several of us have made is that its full of young hard core players. Because of this several older Dom/Dommes have started moaning loudly about this and berating the club for being like a youth club. This in turn is putting off the older BDSMers who don't want to look out of place amongst so many fresh young faces. Who is causing the divide here? I think to an extent, if there are enough people involved then sub groups will naturally form but do you think we will reach the stage where young and old will no longer mix? I think its a great shame if it does but I for one won't be blaming the younger crowd because when you see the shit they have to take, who could blame them? first off, the word ageist (and other words invented by sociologists) makes me cringe. secondly, I never got any lip for being a young dom. if anything, I get compliments about my profile with the occasional diagnosis of narcissism. I also never complained about things such as not being taken seriously...which is usually where most of the ire at younger doms is directed (and rightfully so). and to be fair, there is something worthy of being criticised in a 18-25 year old's profile that exclaims he or she has been 'in the life' for over a decade. I've never received anything but respect when messaging people on here about information or advice. the 'you're doing it wrong' crowd are generally written off as imbeciles by most people on this forum and most people I've met out in the world. relationships, sexual or romantic or whatever else, are as varied as the people who are in relationships. the only time I've seen most people warn against certain activities is when someone is going into an activity while being ignorant of the obvious consequences. to be perfectly honest, I think that the age divide comes mostly from the younger crowd. I can only speak for myself, but bdsm is largely sexual. as such, I'd like to engage in it with people who I find sexually attractive. I'd be much more likely to attend a group consisting of taut 20-somethings than people who have had to deal with gravity for a few more decades. I don't think this is an issue of experience or idealogies...it's just an issue of aesthetics.

SubOnlyForHim -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 1:01:02 AM)
Opinion only.....Age is irrelevant when it comes down to it. It's all about the person/people. Have had relationships from 10 years younger, to 20+ years older.....

RCdc -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 2:03:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz This topic comes about after a recent conversation with a friend of mine on the scene. He is in his 40s and his sub in her late 20s. They do most things together and are clearly very much a pair but recently she has been invited to a local under 30s munch. There are many under 30 and under 35 munches in the UK now. They have told him that he can go but won't be able to sit with the group. If he goes he will have to hang around at the bar. He wasn't complaining and said that if anything the older generation were responsible for causing this divide by continually putting down the younger BDSMers. I tend to agree with this. On the one hand I think its great that we are getting the younger crowd through. The days of going to clubs full of oldies are quickly diminishing and we are seeing more and more fresh young faces joining us. I have always embraced the part of BDSM which is not ageist or was I living under some kind of illusion? I am not talking about a young sub not wanting to date a young Dom 'because of inexperience'. We all have our personal preference when it comes to love matching. I am talking about the mouthy older generation that put down the younger folk, especially young Doms on boards such as this. I have seen the followers of the 'old guard' preach from their parapets that these young Doms can't possibly know what they are doing. Is this preaching partly responsible for creating sub groups and are these sub groups now becoming ageist? A new club has started in London. I would say its a fairly hard core venue with a great underground feel about it and its most certainly not ageist. The interesting observation several of us have made is that its full of young hard core players. Because of this several older Dom/Dommes have started moaning loudly about this and berating the club for being like a youth club. This in turn is putting off the older BDSMers who don't want to look out of place amongst so many fresh young faces. Who is causing the divide here? I think to an extent, if there are enough people involved then sub groups will naturally form but do you think we will reach the stage where young and old will no longer mix? I think its a great shame if it does but I for one won't be blaming the younger crowd because when you see the shit they have to take, who could blame them? I am not against age restricted clubs and I can see how younger people might feel uncomfortable and visa versa. The only thing that erks me is that there seems to be little compromise. If you do have two people in a relationship with a large age gap then they are going to be restricted and something should be done about that. I know couples who are in commited monogamous or triad relationships who aren't actively 'looking' but who want to either contribute time or make new friends via clubs or munches and it's unfair that just because one of them may be the 'wrong' age that means they are expected to stand aside while the others attend. In your example, I would have thought it more responsible for the organisers to take into consideration the individual - not just tell him to wait at the bar. I could understand it if he was a single man (or woman) who doesn't know anyone and just comes off the street. You will always get some older person who thinks it was better in their day or who thinks they know it all. And you will always get the younger person who doesn't want to be told what to do and thinks that when you hit 40+ that it's time for the slippers. the.dark.

DomImus -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 6:28:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Viridana Hmmmm... I am in a situation where there is a big age difference between my spouse and me. And one of the reasons I never attend "youth groups" in the scene is the fact that I'm not allowed to have my spouse with me. I don't know why he's considered such a threat that he's not allowed to sit next to me while I talk to my age-peers, find that actually a bit childish. Either we are both welcome or neither of us are. Amazingly I've never been unwelcome due to my age when he's with his age-peers. I think that says alot.... about alot. Any group that has an arbitrary upper age limit is really no better (or worse) than a bunch of old bdsmers dismissing the younger crowd. Exclusion is exclusion no matter how pretty you wrap it up.

JustStephen -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 6:49:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 secondly, I never got any lip for being a young dom. if anything, I get compliments about my profile with the occasional diagnosis of narcissism. I also never complained about things such as not being taken seriously...which is usually where most of the ire at younger doms is directed (and rightfully so). and to be fair, there is something worthy of being criticised in a 18-25 year old's profile that exclaims he or she has been 'in the life' for over a decade. One doesn't have to be in the lifestyle for a decade to be good at what one does and neither does one have to be middle aged. A guy I know well and who is only 25 and been into this for 5 years or so is not only one of the more respected Doms on the London scene but runs workshops and donates all the money to The Spanner Trust, puts on the most fantastic interrogation performances and has successfully and happily kept a poly household for four years. Age didn't stop him from being good and so we shouldn't presume that because a guys young he doesn't really know what he is doing. About two years ago I was in a club when the paramedics arrived to revive a young woman that had been bondaged by her older Master. He had put the ropes on so tightly that all circulation had stopped and when she fainted he didn't have the common sense to cut those ropes off. Fools are around regardless of age. Maria

Justme696 -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 11:33:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: looking4princess quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Fr older people forget often how young they once were. It may surprise you to learn we continue to feel young inside. We do not forget. We do not grow old within. We may slow a bit but our passions are still there. It is often a surprise when someone reminds me of my age. I remember my chronological age only when I happen to pass by a mirror. lol! Then, holy shit! Who is that old dude? It is the exterior that betrays us. Sigh. [;)] lol we have a saying here "you are as old as you feel".....mostly that is true. I think there will be always a "battle" between old and young. Experience versus new views. Greed of the young versus the calmess of the older person. They collide....while both see they are usefull together. It was always liek that....and why worry..one day they are old too...and they will meet younger people with the same problems..lol For work I have trainees froms chools. Mostly they disagree with me before I say soemthing. So I give them space..and let them struggle. In time they come to me..I look what they did with their fresh view on the prblems.....and I ad my experience. All happy.

LadyPact -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 11:34:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Folks who are willing to practice what is taught are becoming rare and they are often drowned out by the white noise of a hundred others who aren't nearly as sincere as those very few are. It can be very disappointing and take the joy out of teaching in the first place. but when you come across those that refute this comment it truly is a wonderful experience. i know my mentor was fortunate and she felt very much the same. if anything it i did too much, but that's another thread. [;)] i find i'm very selective about who i take on. i spend a lot of time getting to know the person first, their habits, and listen to what they're seeking in and outside of the lifestyle. i have found this approach works well, particularly in situations that will be long term. i'm hopeful that your talents won't go to waste. it would be a sincere pity if no one benefited. porcelaine In My view, that would reflect what a good student you are. Something that those of us who teach really appreciate.

IronBear -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 11:53:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex There is a natural divide; My son is in college now, and although when I am around he and his friends, I think highly of them, they are a great bunch of guys. But I can't see them from any other perspective than a father, looking at a bunch of 20 something kids. I don't mean to overstate it; I also work with 20 somethings, and they are terrifically talented, and we get along great. And sometimes I do join them after work for drinks or whatever. But ultimately, there is still a subtle gap between people who are just starting out on the upward curve of marriage, children, homemaking, and those like me who are at the other end of that curve, becoming emptynesters, looking ahead someday to grandchildren, planning the second half of our lives. There are no villains here, just a natural tendency of people to self-segregate according to interests and shared perspectives. This is precisely the attitude that my wife, who is 30 years younger than I, and I face time after time in some social areas and in fact we have been cold shouldered out of a few areas such as the local SCA. No rocket science to understand that originally my Mother and Father in law were against us being together but I gave them no option with the ultimatum of either gaining a son in law or loosing a daughter. It took time, but we are literally the best of friends now because they have seen that Neets and I are good together. Personally I am happy to see ther next generation of kingsters mixing with us old farts. I dare say that there are as many young ones bitching about the old fats being at some club or munch as there are old farts bitching about the youth. Some people need to be segregated to keep them happy whilst others take what life offers head on with a grin and enjoy the ride.

variation30 -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 3:33:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustStephen One doesn't have to be in the lifestyle for a decade to be good at what one does and neither does one have to be middle aged. A guy I know well and who is only 25 and been into this for 5 years or so is not only one of the more respected Doms on the London scene but runs workshops and donates all the money to The Spanner Trust, puts on the most fantastic interrogation performances and has successfully and happily kept a poly household for four years. Age didn't stop him from being good and so we shouldn't presume that because a guys young he doesn't really know what he is doing. About two years ago I was in a club when the paramedics arrived to revive a young woman that had been bondaged by her older Master. He had put the ropes on so tightly that all circulation had stopped and when she fainted he didn't have the common sense to cut those ropes off. Fools are around regardless of age. Maria I'm not saying age equates to experience. what I am saying is that people claiming they have been practicing bdsm since they were 10-15 is laughable.

submittous -> RE: The young and the old BDSMers (10/15/2009 7:56:17 PM)
We've seldom seen anyone put down for their age.... people who act inappropriately of any age are often shunned by local communities, people who act like 'know it all's' but can't deliver when called to or those folks who are just assholes often have trouble in bdsm communities. But young or old, knew or very experienced... if someone acts with honor, integrity and humbleness they always seems to be accepted in our experience.

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