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RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 7:18:47 PM   
Kirata


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Jeeez, Rush can't hold a candle to those folks!

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 7:18:56 PM   
Thadius


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I am going to guess that your response was a fast reply?  I simply do not know where I have suggested that I support any loopholes to prosecution or other legal means of dealing with the serious crimes talked about in the legislation.  If I have, please point me to the post where I did so.

Again I will state in a way that I hope is pretty damn clear.  Why not apply this to ALL contractors and subcontractors that do business with the US government?  I am not playing with words, I am being quite serious when I ask it.  This amendment only applies to contractors working on contracts for the Defense Dept.

At least one Senator caught the part of the gaping hole and pushed forward the following as an amendment to Sen. Franken's legislation. At least it goes after any other funding that such a contractor may be contracted to receive.
quote:

 Amendment by Sen. Feingold.

On page 245, between lines 8 and 9, insert the following:
   Sec. 8104. None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act or any other Act may be used for the program described on page two of Annex II to the Classified Annex to S. 1494 (111th Congress, agreed to in the Senate on September 16, 2009) prior to the date that the staff of the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate is provided access to such program, as described in such Classified Annex.


I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 7:19:20 PM   
rikigrl


Posts: 203
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quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

You mean like the UN workers do in most every country they're in?

This thread is absurd. 

You liberals are so pent up with rage and bitterness and you need someone to blame.  And you've been blaming Republicans for so long you don't know any other way.  Try looking at your own joke of a president, and the pathetic leaders of the House and Senate.  It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

You are in the majority, and have control over each house and the Presidency.

The Republicans have very little power in DC right now, and can't pass any bill or prevent any bill from passing. 

Democrats have never been more corrupt and out of control than they are right now, and they bear the responsibility for EVERYTHING that comes out of the Congress and the White House.

Therefore, if you have anything to talk about politically, start with your own party.  Remarks about Haliburton and other such "black helicopter" nonsense are just foolish.  Clinton used Haliburton more than Bush ever did, and no-bid contracts to boot.  Do your homework.  More soldiers died between 1992-2000, during Clinton's watch, than during Bush's.  That's a matter of record.

Why are liberals so patently uninformed?  

Another erudite individual heard from.
At least try to work in a smidgen of the topic next time tho howzaboutit?

(in reply to harddaddy4u)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 7:21:44 PM   
rikigrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Jeeez, Rush can't hold a candle to those folks!

K.


Spinnnnning, help me i'm spinnnnning.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 7:32:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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LOL

Exactly Master Kirata

its gonna be an interesting election!

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/15/2009 9:29:58 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u
More soldiers died between 1992-2000, during Clinton's watch, than during Bush's.  That's a matter of record.

Making up your own facts?

Total military deaths under Clinton (1993 to 2000) 7500
Total military deaths under GWB (2001 to 2008) 12,390

According to the DoD:
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/death_Rates.pdf

So it is definitely not a matter of record.

(in reply to harddaddy4u)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 12:05:25 AM   
einstien5201


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To those who are posting saying that opposition to this bill is opposition to punishing/preventing rape, I offer that there are valid reasons to oppose a bill that do not involve being opposed to the avowed intent of it. As an example, if Congress were to have a bill up for a vote that said (and I realize that bills are generally significantly longer than this):

"Rape shall be illegal"

I would oppose it. As I understand it, rape is already illegal, under several levels of law, and such a bill would be at best redundant and at worst cluttering. I believe one of the largest problems we have today in this country is the over-cluttering of the tax and legal codes. Adding new laws for political gain rather than because the laws are useful and needed is the worst kind of timewasting uselessness by our elected officials.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 12:08:56 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u
More soldiers died between 1992-2000, during Clinton's watch, than during Bush's.  That's a matter of record.

Making up your own facts?

Total military deaths under Clinton (1993 to 2000) 7500
Total military deaths under GWB (2001 to 2008) 12,390

According to the DoD:
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/death_Rates.pdf

So it is definitely not a matter of record.



Where do these guys keep getting that shit?


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In the forest of the night
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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 12:37:55 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Where do these guys keep getting that shit?


Google "Glenn Beck 1990" for all you need to know.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 2:46:59 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: einstien5201

To those who are posting saying that opposition to this bill is opposition to punishing/preventing rape, I offer that there are valid reasons to oppose a bill that do not involve being opposed to the avowed intent of it. As an example, if Congress were to have a bill up for a vote that said (and I realize that bills are generally significantly longer than this):

"Rape shall be illegal"

I would oppose it. As I understand it, rape is already illegal, under several levels of law, and such a bill would be at best redundant and at worst cluttering. I believe one of the largest problems we have today in this country is the over-cluttering of the tax and legal codes. Adding new laws for political gain rather than because the laws are useful and needed is the worst kind of timewasting uselessness by our elected officials.


That wasnt the pont of this bill.  The point of this bill was to prevent the arbitration of such crimes.  Government contracts are worth billions.  If they want to do business with the government, dont have that bs in your contracts.

and, yes rape is illegal.  so why would all those men vote against something that was already illegal.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to einstien5201)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 6:51:22 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Well, I certainly hope some of you folks reading this thread are seeing what I'm seeing. The republican supporters change the subject to "the wording of the bill," (picking on poor, poor, defenseless Halliburton, we are!) and completely avoiding the fact that 30 GOP senators voted against ending extending the arbitarion clause in government contrators hiring practices, to include obviously criminal activity. They even stand behind the faceless corperations in cases of gang rape, false imprisonment, and (probably) murder. What's next? Will Halliburton and KNB employees be given free reign to rape 12 year old girls next?


Good spin. Not sure why those human wastes did not vote for the bill. What I am saying is that if you want a bill passed without problems, do not put political landmines in them. Both sides have some responsibility here, the ones that did not vote for it, and the ones that purposefully included some worded in the purpose, that they knew would trigger some problems.

quote:


Please make a note of who here wanted to play word games, and who saw the subject for what it really was: the subversion of victims' legal rights under the Constitution via a shell game known as arbitration. (Which is great, if you have a workman's Comp claim, or a failure to pay what is owed or some other Civil claim.)  What kind of twisted philosophy would lead someone to support such a degradation of women as second class citizens? I ask you... seriously.



I am a little slow, could you make those notes here and post them? I just find it funny that when I want to insult someone, I do it directly, but the mods get onto me for it. Others do it in a deceptively, passive-aggressive way, and they get away with it. Let's see honesty or deception is rewarded? Mars, we know where much of your bias and hatred is, and that stuff is going to eventually eat you up inside.

So who exactly here is against this bill again? Could you show me where?

Put up or shut up, time to show how much integrity you have.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 7:11:24 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Well, I certainly hope some of you folks reading this thread are seeing what I'm seeing. The republican supporters change the subject to "the wording of the bill," (picking on poor, poor, defenseless Halliburton, we are!) and completely avoiding the fact that 30 GOP senators voted against ending extending the arbitarion clause in government contrators hiring practices, to include obviously criminal activity. They even stand behind the faceless corperations in cases of gang rape, false imprisonment, and (probably) murder. What's next? Will Halliburton and KNB employees be given free reign to rape 12 year old girls next?


Good spin. Not sure why those human wastes did not vote for the bill. What I am saying is that if you want a bill passed without problems, do not put political landmines in them. Both sides have some responsibility here, the ones that did not vote for it, and the ones that purposefully included some worded in the purpose, that they knew would trigger some problems.

quote:


Please make a note of who here wanted to play word games, and who saw the subject for what it really was: the subversion of victims' legal rights under the Constitution via a shell game known as arbitration. (Which is great, if you have a workman's Comp claim, or a failure to pay what is owed or some other Civil claim.)  What kind of twisted philosophy would lead someone to support such a degradation of women as second class citizens? I ask you... seriously.



I am a little slow, could you make those notes here and post them? I just find it funny that when I want to insult someone, I do it directly, but the mods get onto me for it. Others do it in a deceptively, passive-aggressive way, and they get away with it. Let's see honesty or deception is rewarded? Mars, we know where much of your bias and hatred is, and that stuff is going to eventually eat you up inside.

So who exactly here is against this bill again? Could you show me where?

Put up or shut up, time to show how much integrity you have.
Nicely said, Orion.  I've read through the thread from where I left off and I see it is the same ole, same ole...if you are against the wording of the bill, then you must be in support of rape.  Tazzy brings on postings from two obviously liberal blogs written not by "impartial" reporters but by biased commentators and we are to take their spin as true, Mars comes up with his usual inflammatory statements that have only the slightest touch with reality...yet when I see a direct challenge to rulemylife, he does the usual..."why don't you answer my question" bit instead of answering the challenge put to him...in other words, his question is ever so much more important thant the credible challenge raised to him.

I've yet to see one conservative on here ...including myself...speak out in defense of rape.  I've yet to see one conservative on here come out and say that what happened to this girl...within her company or within her round of court appearances...was deserved or right.  I HAVE seen conservatives on here state that it was wrong for a politician to single out one company in a self-serving, grandiose attempt to embarass a corporate entity that in any way profits from war rather than just write out a proposed piece of legislation that not only would have dealt with Halliburton's "arbitration" tactics that allowed them to skirt the law but would have dealt with ANY company's attempts to sidestep the issue.  The proof that he knew what he was doing?  Look at the fall-out from daring to stand against the bill as written even while being supportive of the intent behind the bill.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 7:35:40 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Because obviously, some of us are just against rape unless it includes Haliburton?

Do you see how the question you are asking comes across?  Nobody here, has stated what happened to that woman or any other woman should be protected under any law.  Rape is rape and must be tried to the fullest extent and reach of the law, and even then a bit further (that however is another story).


Did we read the same story?

Isn't the legislation being enacted because the crime was not "tried to the fullest extent and reach of the law".

quote:



My question that still hasn't been answered seems pretty simple.  With such a serious issue at hand, shouldn't it apply to ALL contractors, including those not receiving funds from the Defense Dept.?


So then what you and the Republican senators are arguing is it's all or nothing.

If we can't have total reform we should just ignore the current injustices until we can achieve that?

quote:


I honestly don't think you are arguing that just the warmongering companies should be prevented from such acts. Or do you find it okay that it could possibly allow non defense related contractors to take part in gang rape?


So, we then should not pass legislation aimed at allowing a woman who was gang raped to achieve justice because at some indefinite time in the future some other woman may be gang raped by a non-defense related contractor?

Then your argument again is that if we cannot correct the whole situation we should not attempt to correct any part of it.



(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 7:46:22 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Finally, I am curious as to which party I am being partisan for?  I am sure they would appreciate me registering with them so they can send me their fundraising bs and propaganda.


Ah yes.

It never fails to amaze me how many non-partisan Independents we have on here who support every conservative and Republican issue.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 7:53:39 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

Why are liberals so patently uninformed?  


We just don't listen to enough Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity.

(in reply to harddaddy4u)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 11:47:59 AM   
Thadius


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I did enjoy the way you spun away from the direct question, and the attempted spin on my words.  Again, nobody here, that I have read, has said that what occured was acceptable or should be defended.  Of course this must be a dream story for those that want to make political hay one way or the other.  Let's write the headline now.

"GOP is in favor of gang raping employees." or "GOP sends women back to dark ages, by denying protections against workplace gang rapes."

Those work for ya?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Finally, I am curious as to which party I am being partisan for?  I am sure they would appreciate me registering with them so they can send me their fundraising bs and propaganda.


Ah yes.

It never fails to amaze me how many non-partisan Independents we have on here who support every conservative and Republican issue.



You must have missed the remarks I have made over the past couple years about all of the out of control spending and other fuck ups by the GOP.  No worries. I have for the most part called em how I see em, regardless of party.  Although our current President, did offer up some good targets last fall, have you seen me around here bashing him since he was elected?  Or even read my remarks in the Nobel Prize thread?

Of course you are more than willing to admit that you are non-partisan and don't have any dogs in the fight?

I have said what I wanted to on this subject and the topic at hand, if you wish to discuss the topic which I understand to be the amendment by Sen Franken, I wil be glad to do so.  If not we can take the personal stuff to private or cmail.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 12:01:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

nobody here, that I have read, has said that what occured was acceptable or should be defended.

Whoa, easy there... don't go asking him to paste it if you missed it. He'll get upset.

K.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 3:54:57 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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No one has spoken against the bill or defended those that opposed it on the Senate floor, so your comment is false. Also, you assume that you know each of us that has had a problem with the wording of the Statement of purpose, and your assumptions would be false.

This bill is apparently needed, because of BS that can be put into contracts and enforced by Federal Contractors, and most that have a problem with the wording have stated as much. Let me say that again so you do not miss it this time; This bill is apparently needed, because of BS that can be put into contracts and enforced by Federal Contractors, and most that have a problem with the wording have stated as much.

No the issue I have is why did they ever put Haliburton's name anywhere near the bill, if their true intended purpose was to protect? The only reason I can see is to create poltical bait, which I find reprehensible that they did so. Such an important bill should have been made landmine free, so that it could be fast tracked through.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rikigrl

amen Mars....amen
They probably wouldn't be so concerned with the wording if it were a woman close to them who was raped.


< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 10/16/2009 4:03:08 PM >


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to rikigrl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 4:07:29 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

No the issue I have is why did they ever put Haliburton's name anywhere near the bill, if their true intended purpose was to protect? The only reason I can see is to create poltical bait, which I find reprehensible that they did so. Such an important bill should have been made landmine free, so that it could be fast tracked through.
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf


Perhaps the landmine was indeed set. The landmine was giving the GOP the choice between supporting Haliburton or strengthening the protections against rape. Another possible landmine was the choice between voting for a bill that cost no money, did an undeniable good but would make them side with the democrats instead of opposing out of knee jerk. If this is true, the GOP members who voted against the bill stepped directly onto it.


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: New bill needed for rape - 10/16/2009 4:27:00 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

You mean like the UN workers do in most every country they're in?

This thread is absurd. 

You liberals are so pent up with rage and bitterness and you need someone to blame.  And you've been blaming Republicans for so long you don't know any other way.  Try looking at your own joke of a president, and the pathetic leaders of the House and Senate.  It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

You are in the majority, and have control over each house and the Presidency.

The Republicans have very little power in DC right now, and can't pass any bill or prevent any bill from passing. 

Democrats have never been more corrupt and out of control than they are right now, and they bear the responsibility for EVERYTHING that comes out of the Congress and the White House.

Therefore, if you have anything to talk about politically, start with your own party.  Remarks about Haliburton and other such "black helicopter" nonsense are just foolish.  Clinton used Haliburton more than Bush ever did, and no-bid contracts to boot.  Do your homework.  More soldiers died between 1992-2000, during Clinton's watch, than during Bush's.  That's a matter of record.

Why are liberals so patently uninformed?  


While you make one or two valid points, they are lost under all the "you liberals" bs. You sound just as bad as the poster your replying to. Now to answer your question, with one minor adjustment...

Why are some liberals so patently uninformed?......the same reason some republicans are so patently uninformed. Because there are assholes on both sides.

I would add more about the thread itself but Kirata is doing a great job, so I won't bother.


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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to harddaddy4u)
Profile   Post #: 100
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