Arrogance

Arrogance (Full Version)

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SJSubman -> Arrogance (10/15/2009 11:11:48 PM)
When I was in the lifestyle I was fortunate to have a relationship with an excellent Mistress. She was very much in control of things and I found the relationship very rewarding and I believe she did as well. For ligitimate reasons that I won't mention here, we had no choice but to part. (do I miss her).. Since then, (a few years) I've been away from the lifestyle. As I've returned I've had interaction with a couple of Domme women (not on collarme) -- So far, each has been very arrogant. It seems to me that a top should be confident and dominant and certainly in control. I feel this is very different than being arrogant, selfish and rude. Mistress demanded respect by her action and never had to ask for it.. she earned it and it was understood. In my view arrogance is a sign of low self esteem. It's hard for me to respect that. I suppose the discussion I'd like to see is concerning the topic of arrogance.. or is it in fact arrogance? When does being dominant turn to something ugly? maybe it's a part of the d/s relationship that I don't understand? I suppose if one likes to be humilliated - that would be part of the relationship. I could be sending the wrong signals. anyone have any thoughts on this?

Elipsis -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 12:02:17 AM)
I absolutely understand this complaint. Hubris seems to be a very common theme of female dominants in my age group. They're quite the sought after demographic so perhaps they can get away with it and I'm sure it's great for someone... but given what I'm looking for I find their tones often extremely offputting.

metalkink -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 12:09:41 AM)
as a female sub, can I add that I find arrogance is a sign of an insecure mind - as you say, respect is given by action, not petty comments or "diva" behaviour. But its similar to men saying they are Doms - it gets them a free shag on their terms and they find enough insecure people or ppl desperate for a D/s relationship (perhaps is a better way of putting it) to get away with it. Just because you are sub or slave, doesnt mean you do not deserve respect, remember that Subman :)

NihilusZero -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 2:48:47 AM)
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

Lashra -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 3:25:10 AM)
It has been my experience that arrogance can be found regardless of gender or which side of the whip a person leans. Some people are just arrogant and no it is not a pretty thing. ~Lashra

porcelaine -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 3:48:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SJSubman I suppose the discussion I'd like to see is concerning the topic of arrogance.. or is it in fact arrogance? When does being dominant turn to something ugly? maybe it's a part of the d/s relationship that I don't understand? I suppose if one likes to be humilliated - that would be part of the relationship. I could be sending the wrong signals. i don't think it has anything to do with dominance at all. no one adopts the lifestyle and metamorphosis into a prima donna over time. you're speaking about people with specific characteristics that compel them to behave in a manner that some view as arrogant. their behavior is always a choice and it isn't relegated to dominants alone. submissives are people too and can be infected with the same traits. rather than become dismayed by what you've encountered, chalk it up to difference and call it a day. perhaps these people aren't the sort that resonate with you. i'm not going to make a wide generalization and state most dominant women behave in this manner, i don't find that in my encounters at all. what is often overlooked in personal dynamics is that there's a counterpart for everything. the very traits you find deplorable may be precisely what someone else is seeking. i won't pretend to say that i adore arrogant people, but i can't dismiss the fact i've been involved with quite a few. i accept there's something in my personality that connects with theirs. i'm also very results oriented and that may be a factor. as such, i can deal with it in moderate doses. i believe we each cultivate a certain degree of confidence. perhaps it isn't the possession of such that can be troubling, but the manner in which it is conveyed that is usually offensive. porcelaine

LaTigresse -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 3:55:42 AM)
I think it is, at times, a flawed perception also. Not everyone labeled as such, is. As much as really being arrogant can come from a well of insecurity or narcissism, the perception of arrogance can also come from an insecure or wounded view.

DesFIP -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 3:56:56 AM)
Another vote against arrogance. I much prefer a quiet confidence that shines to someone tooting their own horn all the time. Unfortunately there are many insecure people who do use an arrogant cover up. Just pass them by and be glad they showed their true colors so early on before you wasted much time on them.

daintydimples -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 4:12:14 AM)
Yes, anyone can be arrogant. However, I do think that there are too many females out there who hate men, and who use their supposed "dominance" as a tool to hurt and humiliate. In my mind, being petty, cruel and domineering, is not being dominant. It's just being mean. Unfortunately, anyone can buy a crop and say they are a femdom, and males subs will flock to them. A steady diet of online porn that portrays femdoms as petty and cruel doesn't help this situation.

allthatjaz -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 4:17:43 AM)
http://www.steel-door.com/tops_disease.htm is interesting

IronBear -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 4:25:41 AM)
there is arrogance and then there is arrogance. Racially speakin, it has been said that the Germanic and Dutch races have a natural arrogance just as many of the high born Brits have it bit in a somewhat gentler and even diplomatic manner. many of my friends are quite arrogant in that they are extremely self confident and don't take shit. On the other hand I do see in a number of the younger males arrogance based on aggressiveness (differing from assertiveness), rudeness and often when challenged uncertainty masked by an arrogant outburst. Some find any form of arrogance offensive to some degree, but these sale folk often feel the same way when confronted by someone who is very self-confident and knows what they are talking about. On the otherhand, I see almost daily a few close frienmds who are arrogant (due to their birth and upbringing) whose arrogance is toned down when dealing with folks who have a lesser jknowledge of the discussion subject and (more importantly) show some degree of humility when deal;ing with people who do understand and know more about something which is being discussed. Arrogance based on inadequacies and lack of self-assuredness tends to be of the bullying type where is Arrogance based on a racial characteristic may be annoying for some and charming for others. Of course the arrogance of someone brought up in a high born home can swing either way which just demonstrates that arrogance itself is not a bad thing but how it is used or comes across. Sadly too many people have had dealing with rude and negatively arrogant people thus tarring all those of us who are arrogant as being socially unpleasant. One of the advantages of being a natural; loner socially is that I can be my normal arrogant and somewhat eccentric self.

porcelaine -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 4:44:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think it is, at times, a flawed perception also. Not everyone labeled as such, is. As much as really being arrogant can come from a well of insecurity or narcissism, the perception of arrogance can also come from an insecure or wounded view. cha ching! on the mark as always Ma'am. i'm of the belief that most supposed slurs that insist someone is arrogant is usually due to the accusor's own inadequacy. because that couldn't possibly be the culprit. could it? [;)] porcelaine

lizi -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 4:58:38 AM)
I'm not sure if it's always true arrogance you are seeing or something of a theme or persona the D type adopts in an attempt to do what they think is necessary to fulfill their role.

allthatjaz -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 5:31:01 AM)
IB From personal experience I have found that those born into aristocracy or money are vary rarely arrogant but those that come into money later in life often are. Its inverted snobbery.

DarkSteven -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 5:31:29 AM)
I have found quite a few male subs to be arrogant as well. I suspect that I am less tolerant of males' shortcomings than females'...

IronBear -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 5:47:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz IB From personal experience I have found that those born into aristocracy or money are vary rarely arrogant but those that come into money later in life often are. Its inverted snobbery. You probably don't see it as much as I did as a child when my Maternal Grandmother used to stay with us at times and there were a large flow of European and British relatives would visit when they visited Australia. All were nobility of one degree or another. The arrogance there was one born of a ruling class who knew where they were in the scheme of things even though WW2 had displaced some, revolutions had displaced others and the world was sadly changing. Sometimes this arrogance came accross as snobbishness to and yet it was just people who were born into an elevated position and really only knew things from their own perspective. IO know I am occasionally called by some who don't know me, a pompus ass which may or may not be true, but usually refers to my manner of speech. I simply do not believe I should change to use local idioms and through away the elegance I grew up with. family wise we lost all but the ancestral properties in UK thanks to the late Her Hitler and Joseph Stalin. For arrogance is both acceptable and even good when it comes from knowing ione's place, have self confidence and know what you are talkiong about. I just don't klike bullies and especially rude, abusive ones. But yes I agree and have seen a great deal of the inverted snobbery from those lately come into money.

DomImus -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 6:07:37 AM)
Playing the devil's advocate for a moment, let's suppose you meet a dominant who you find to be on the arrogant side. You wish not to have a relationship with them for that reason. Along comes another submissive who meets this dominant and and pursues a relationship with them wherein the dominant doesn't change their behavior in any significant fashion. The new submissive is quite happy - they see leadershp or dominance or control or whatever but they do not perceive any arrogance on the dominant's part. The question is, of course... is/was the dominant actually in fact arrogant or is this simply different perspectives?

SaharahEve -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 6:27:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus Playing the devil's advocate for a moment, let's suppose you meet a dominant who you find to be on the arrogant side. You wish not to have a relationship with them for that reason. Along comes another submissive who meets this dominant and and pursues a relationship with them wherein the dominant doesn't change their behavior in any significant fashion. The new submissive is quite happy - they see leadershp or dominance or control or whatever but they do not perceive any arrogance on the dominant's part. The question is, of course... is/was the dominant actually in fact arrogant or is this simply different perspectives? I second your reply. Arrogance is a subjective term. Depending on your personal disposition, you're either going to be bothered by an 'arrogant' person, or indifferent. Someone's perception of arrogance is another person's perception of confidence. Some view arrogance as vile, some view arrogance as hot. People are always more than what you're seeing at any given moment, I don't think people should be threatened by a seemingly arrogant person.

IrishMist -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 7:02:44 AM)
shrug I like arrogance in a person as long as they can back it up. To me, when I come up against arrogance, what I see is a person who very much knows THEMSELVES; what they want, what they need, and how to get it with the least amount of resistance. For me, this is something that causes me to take notice of a person. If they can back it up with actions, then my notice does not stray. [:)]

LordSpooner -> RE: Arrogance (10/16/2009 7:17:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus The question is, of course... is/was the dominant actually in fact arrogant or is this simply different perspectives? It can be both. One is assigning arrogance as a personality trait and the other is making it a preference. quote: ORIGINAL: SaharahEve Arrogance is a subjective term. Depending on your personal disposition, you're either going to be bothered by an 'arrogant' person, or indifferent. Someone's perception of arrogance is another person's perception of confidence. Some view arrogance as vile, some view arrogance as hot. I disagree. Being arrogant is taking a "person's perception of confidence" to the abundance, to the extreme, if not to the point where it becomes a personality flaw. By definition - (as defined ala Google this morning) arrogance is the "overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors." The urban dictionary is far less kind in that regard -- basically assimilating arrogance to the levels of condescending, narcissistic, snobby, shallow and a whole host of inappropriate language that you can check out on your own. Even in the farthest bending incarnation of the definition -- the concept of "confidence" is no where to be found. While you may try to argue the "degrees of confidence" angle, it would be like comparing a glass of water to a lake.....

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