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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

If you are an outstanding talent and boast loudly about it you are an arrogant bore, methinks. Talent and accomplishment does not give you the right to use a megaphone, nor the need for one.

If you are mediocre and boast about some imagined talent you are not arrogant, you are an idiot.

yet you don't see the hypocrisy in your own statement above. who are you to define what is or isn't mediocre? how can this be measured? i would think your personal bias would be a factor in some regard. the very same way it is in relation to what is or isn't arrogant. have you ever asked yourself why the behavior is bothersome to you? i'd think that would have much greater merit than rendering judgment to a group of people that probably are too arrogant to care.

porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

*smiles* You put words in my mouth or my keyboard. Nowhere in my post did i say I was making any judgements on talent or lack thereof. Oh no, i clearly said "The world knows." I think there is often global judgment, whatever the size of the group that makes the judgment. Sometimes assessments are made collectively. Someone walks into a room and from their manner there may be general albeit unspoken agreement that they are too vain or just boring or nerdy or whatever. Heads turn, eyes roll. Groups seem to work that way.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

PS sorry porcelaine this post is for the op not you

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

*smiles* You put words in my mouth or my keyboard. Nowhere in my post did i say I was making any judgements on talent or lack thereof. Oh no, i clearly said "The world knows." I think there is often global judgment, whatever the size of the group that makes the judgment. Sometimes assessments are made collectively. Someone walks into a room and from their manner there may be general albeit unspoken agreement that they are too vain or just boring or nerdy or whatever. Heads turn, eyes roll. Groups seem to work that way.

"the world" was not in the portion i referenced and even still i refute the statement. in my world the behavior you noted is commonplace and i don't find it offensive. as for group thought, i'm an individual and i formulate my own opinions. i don't alter them based on the company i keep either. i just care little about what people do that aren't impacting my reality. if i don't have to relate with this person in an intimate fashion, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? i figure i have enough real stuff to concern myself with rather than conjuring makeshift issues.

porcelaine

Ah porcelaine, don't we all love to boast we are individuals who formulate our own opinions independent of our peer group and our own past experiences. How proud we are of our "free will." I wonder how free we really are from influences when we process information from our environment. We are not rocks or cybers. We do process information as humans. i suggest the processing mechanism is not totally cerebral and calculating. It is full of...... bias.

The OP was seeking a distinction between dominance and arrogance/rudeness. It may be that such behavior is commonplace in your world and it may be that you do not find it offensive. I do not see how you can extrapolate from tht statement and suggest, as i think you do, that therefore arrogance is not arrogance. i posit that the behavior is what it is whether you approve of it or not. I suggest that there are behaviors that have Universal definitions beyond your group. Their definitions are not relative.

Someone being sexually aroused by being punched in the nose or spat upon in the face and loving it does not alter the general social consensus of that act as rudeness. It merely means that the group or individual has accepted it and/or hungers for it.

It is what it is whether you or your group excuse it or glorify it or find it commonplace. You have simply put a different spin on your relation to it but you have not altered what it is.

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

Ah porcelaine, don't we all love to boast we are individuals who formulate our own opinions independent of our peer group and our own past experiences. How proud we are of our "free will." I wonder how free we really are from influences when we process information from our environment. We are not rocks or cybers. We do process information as humans. i suggest the processing mechanism is not totally cerebral and calculating. It is full of...... bias.

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I was wondering if you'd see this thread, Arrogance.  The thought of it made Me laugh.

As to the OP, I have to agree with the posters who said if it's based in fact, it's not arrogance.  I don't see anyone talking about their strengths in such a way when it is based in reality.  If you're good at whatever it is, you shouldn't have to tone it down just because someone else doesn't have the same level of accomplishment as you do.  That's their lacking, not yours.

Found this definition of arrogance: " proudly contemptuous: feeling or showing self-importance and contempt or disregard for others" Encarta World English Dictionary Also looked quickly at several other definitions that showed up in the search and they all seemed to have in common the concepts of "overbearing" pride or hubris.

My thinking is that someone can discuss their own real, fact-based strengths in a manner that is not arrogance. But they are arrogant when they become too full of themselves beyond justified pride in accomplishments. Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods never had to boast of their accomplishments. They were not arrogant about what they achieved. The world knows. If you walk the walk you don't have to talk the talk.

Mohammed Ali was arrogant imo because he was fighting against a racism that Jordan and Woods did not encounter, so his "show" of arrogance may be understandable. I do not know what his true temper was.

If you are an outstanding talent and boast loudly about it you are an arrogant bore, methinks. Talent and accomplishment does not give you the right to use a megaphone, nor the need for one.

If you are mediocre and boast about some imagined talent you are not arrogant, you are an idiot.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think it is, at times, a flawed perception also. Not everyone labeled as such, is.

As much as really being arrogant can come from a well of insecurity or narcissism, the perception of arrogance can also come from an insecure or wounded view.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

Ah porcelaine, don't we all love to boast we are individuals who formulate our own opinions independent of our peer group and our own past experiences. How proud we are of our "free will." I wonder how free we really are from influences when we process information from our environment. We are not rocks or cybers. We do process information as humans. i suggest the processing mechanism is not totally cerebral and calculating. It is full of...... bias.

i don't know what "we" do. my belief is that our opinions encompass input from a multitude of ways that create a compilation called you. that is how i process information. i respect that others have methods that work for them. for the record i speak for myself when i provide comments and avoid using generalizations to justify my opinion. as such we is not applicable, since i cannot speak for others. i can only say what i think and feel instead.

porcelaine

Well, i use the word "we" in small case letters with great modesty when trying to report my understanding of processes that are generic to the human condition as i believe cognition in general, the processing of information, and the formulation of opinions are. I grant that we may end up with different opinions, but i have too high a regard for the science of evolutionary psychology to assume that my mental processes are in anyway unique or different from those of the rest of the species to which i belong. There are a multitude of scientists who research the mental processes of our species. It would be an act of arrogance for me to use the first person singular when reporting on even a small part of their work as i have read it. Perhaps i have misunderstood some of their conclusions but i would not presume to insert my opinion in place of theirs. It is a poor debate trick to distract from the issue by attacking the opponent, which is what i feel you have done here by nitpicking my pronouns and accusing me of formulating generalizations. Please address the issue if you wish to continue a discussion.

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

Perhaps i have misunderstood some of their conclusions but i would not presume to insert my opinion in place of theirs. It is a poor debate trick to distract from the issue by attacking the opponent, which is what i feel you have done here by nitpicking my pronouns and accusing me of formulating generalizations. Please address the issue if you wish to continue a discussion.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact


As it relates to the OP, your last line is has bearing.  What happens often with those lacking experience is they come into BDSM and enter a setting where it seems that a lot of people have a lot of knowledge and they have very little.  It can be quite intimidating and often the first response is that those who might actually know a thing or two are arrogant.  This is something of a tainted view.  There are a lot of catch phrases for this.  When you see the folks who protest too much about the folks with experience, it's a pretty good clue.  It comes through a lot more often with male Dominants, because they don't get the same opportunities to learn (people willing to teach, chances to play, etc) as females do.

Pretty much everything you say has merit, LP. I have the impression that the OP recognized some behaviors and attitudes by his Domme which he considered arrogant and/or rude. At which point he looked around and said something like "Holy shit, what am i getting into here? Is this what i have to put up with if i wish to satisfy my submissive needs?" I proposed that arrogance and rudeness are pretty well defined and recognized by the larger cultural norms. I can only suspect that the OP brought those definitions with him to the Scene.

My response to him would be it is what it is. Rudeness is rudeness. Kicking someone in the balls is pretty much universally recognized as rude. The definition doesn't change. However, the OP has the opportunity to examine his own response to that rudeness. If getting kicked in the balls makes him hot then he should go for it, accept it for the pleasure it gives him, but don't try to rationalize his erotic response by saying "Oh, it is not rude in the BDSM community." Nope, it is what it is but if it gives you pleasure OP you are what you are, so enjoy without guilt, and do not feel that you have to put up with abuse because your Dom/me is untutored or unskilled."

You are right, LP. A newby to the BDSM world can be pretty well frightened and intimidated by all that he sees and hears around him. I remember it well.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: looking4princess

Perhaps i have misunderstood some of their conclusions but i would not presume to insert my opinion in place of theirs. It is a poor debate trick to distract from the issue by attacking the opponent, which is what i feel you have done here by nitpicking my pronouns and accusing me of formulating generalizations. Please address the issue if you wish to continue a discussion.

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. but i don't have to swallow it and make it my own. your perceptions are just that - yours. which was the crux of my original comment in regard to your beliefs on what is arrogant or idiotic. just because you think such doesn't mean other people agree.

the idea of you instructing me on how to respond is ridiculous. laughable even. but if it makes you feel empowered to issue a virtual correction, have at it. if you don't mind i'll politely decline the directive. i serve One not all.

porcelaine

No point for either of us to stay on this merry-go-round is there then? Be well, porcelaine.

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ORIGINAL: IronBear

To be even more correct the earliest I can find in my general reading is from the Victorian period but of course the British Empire was at it's highest and they were supremacists. I would however, ask Lucienne, seeing that:

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People who have arrogance based on a sense of aristocratic birthright aren't insufferable as much as funny to me

Just how much direct shoulder rubbing contact she has with such amusing folk? Literally just my natural curiosity asking, and yes i do agree but probably for different reasons.

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ORIGINAL: hardbodysub:
Actually, I think you've got a little mixed up here. The phrase "it has been said" is indeed often used to disguise those doing the saying. However, your conclusion about the "who" in this case is mistaken. White supremacists don't call themselves and people on their side arrogant. They believe that their words and actions are justified by their natural superiority. It's their opponents who label the white supremacists as arrogant.

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ORIGINAL: IronBear

I agree with you. For anyone to loose something of value such as a Chrysler Dealership is just as sad as me loosing ancestral estates in Danmark and Prussia, just as my second wife costing me over AU$2.5 million was a huge hit. Things are sader for me when people loose something which was to have been passed down to their children or which was to ensured a good life in thjeir latter years as well as educating their children. The loss a man suffers when his good shoes/boots are lost is no less than a land owner looses his estate because the owner of the shoes/boots is poor. We each place a value on things and suffer loss accordingly. After all we are still men and have our own opersonal pride no matter the station in life. The power and prestige a Motor dealer has or may have in his community is no less that the power and prestige a land owner may also have in his community.To loose this is something not to sneer at. Some take the loss and use it as a learning step to build something greater and others do not. This does not devalue those of us who firstly live a lifestyle based aspects of history which we hold deer though or still maintain a lifestyle and values, modes of living and protocols more in tune to what has been lost. It would be silly to turn away from all one way brought up on and to believe because the fates decreed changes.

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ORIGINAL: Lucienne

Please forgive me. I am nothing more than the descendant of Celtic peasant stock. Lose. The word is "lose." And, yes, the loss of undeserved privilege previously gained by the accomplishments of one's ancestors is very much something to sneer at when the "loser" hasn't noticed his loss.