RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (Full Version)

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servantforuse -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 7:51:18 PM)

That is why I am against this. I , and a million or so of ex-phone workers will get less out of this deal..I like it the way it is...




tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 7:57:29 PM)

Nothing remains as it is.  You could have been guarenteed the access to the plan you have.  Those in power didnt want to deal with the potential government public option, so they weakened what the bill proposed, lied to everyone, and took money from the insurance company lobbyists... and all it gained you was the loss of what you had.

Sorta dont make sense why people allowed this to happen.  They (congress, company owners, insurance companies, ect) wont lose a thing.  They have everything to gain.  I wont lose anything, i dont have any insurance to lose.

Those who will lose are people like you, subject to the whims and decisions of congress, insurance companies and your own company.

And they all lied to you.




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 7:58:44 PM)


What happens at the end of five years?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Guess you missed the part that talked about how any company (and this pertained to all companies) who dropped the private carrier in favor of the government option in the first five years would face stiff penalties and fines.




tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:01:22 PM)

Do you mean what would have happened?

And you have been dead set against this bill from the beginning...arguing its deceit, its lies, its problems..... and YOU cant tell me what would have happened?




rulemylife -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:07:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What happens at the end of five years?



Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

The dead rising from the grave!

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!




(Ghost Busters (1984) - Memorable quotes)




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:10:44 PM)


That's a lot of drama over what was a very straightforward question.




rulemylife -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:12:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That's a lot of drama over what was a very straightforward question.



A lot of drama?

[sm=biggrin.gif]

That's all you have ever posted regarding the health care issue.

But in fairness, a lot of drama seems to be the entire conservative argument against it.

Death panels, letting Grandma die, forcing the country into bankruptcy, etc., etc.




servantforuse -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:14:45 PM)

The democrats have never answered the number one question. HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT>>>




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:17:32 PM)


They've got personal attacks, they've got high drama, but answers to simple, basic questions they don't got.

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The democrats have never answered the number one question. HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT>>>




rulemylife -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The democrats have never answered the number one question. HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT>>>


Senate Healthcare Reform Bill Would Reduce Deficit, CBO Says

October 8, 2009 — A heavily amended healthcare reform proposal before the Senate Finance Committee would cost $829 billion, but it would ultimately trim the federal deficit by $81 billion through 2019, according to an analysis released yesterday by the Congressional Budget Office.




tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:25:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The democrats have never answered the number one question. HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT>>>


We pay for it by lowering the cost of health care.  Access to preventative care lowers hospital costs, medication costs, the need for surgeries, specialized care, ect.

Will the cost be lower in the beginning?  HELL no.  Its been said over and over, by both sides, that reform is mandatory.  The argument is over what kind of reform.

Crunch time.

You are not guarenteed anything in relationship to your employer offered insurance.  They can replace it with a lower plan at any time... and you cant prevent that.

What gets me is that everyone is arguing over money.. how to pay?  any idea of how we are going to pay if we do nothing?  rates doubling and tripling in a year.  plans offering fewer and fewer benefits.

Those without want to BUY into a plan that allows them to

1.  Afford it.
2.  Something beyond sick day care.  Preventative would be great.
3.  Access to purchasing more without having to worry about pre-existing conditions.

Thats just for a start.

No one is asking for anything for FREE.




tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:29:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The democrats have never answered the number one question. HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT>>>


Senate Healthcare Reform Bill Would Reduce Deficit, CBO Says

October 8, 2009 — A heavily amended healthcare reform proposal before the Senate Finance Committee would cost $829 billion, but it would ultimately trim the federal deficit by $81 billion through 2019, according to an analysis released yesterday by the Congressional Budget Office.



In the past 2 years (?) we have spent over double that amount to drug companies who couldnt give a damn about anyone but their own pockets out of trouble.  Yet, EVERYONE seems to be bitching about the health of a nation.

No wonder why the rest of the globe treats us like children... we act like it.




rulemylife -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:34:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the past 2 years (?) we have spent over double that amount to drag companies who couldnt give a damn about anyone but their own pockets out of trouble.


Damn those drag companies.

Those trannies are taking all our money.





(Sorry Tazzy, couldn't resist.)





tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:37:25 PM)

LOL.. its ok.. busted.. told you guys spelling was not my strong suit

i have.. better.. talents [:D]




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:37:59 PM)


Sorry rule, but your questionable website requires registration to access it and I have no desire to start getting spammed from Medscape.com.

Here are some actual news articles detailing the actual cost forcasts associated  with the various Obamacare proposals (and when was the last time a government program came in anywhere near the set budget?)

quote:

House Democrats paring cost of health care bill
WASHINGTON — Early estimates from congressional budget umpires show that House Democrats are close to President Barack Obama's $900 billion target for health care legislation, a spokesman for Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Friday.
...It does not include some $240 billion over ten years that lawmakers want to spend to address a shortfall in Medicare payments to doctors. The White House says those costs should not be included in the pricetag for the health care overhaul. But the Medicare provision was part of the original House bill.



quote:

CBO: House Drafts of Health Bill Within Obama's Spending Limit

Preliminary estimates from the Congressional Budget Office show that House leaders are within striking distance of drafting a health overhaul that fits within President Obama's $900 billion limit, but the new numbers have done little to unite the chamber's Democrats around a legislative plan.


 Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has been working for weeks to smooth over disputes about the final shape of the package while slicing billions of dollars from the approximately $1.2 trillion bill three House panels approved in July. As part of that process, Pelosi asked the CBO to analyze competing versions of a slimmed-down package that would extend health coverage to millions of Americans.






rulemylife -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:48:55 PM)

Yeah, I see that.

I previewed it before I posted and it worked fine, I don't know why it isn't now.

But it's hardly a "questionable" source, as you may have noted even though the article wasn't available.

Let me see if I can find anther link for it and I'll get back to you on your links.






tazzygirl -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:51:00 PM)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/10/cbo_says_senate_health_bill_wo.html?hpid=topnews


CBO Says Senate Health Bill Would Expand Coverage, Reduce DeficitUpdated 5:06 p.m.
By Lori Montgomery and Shailagh Murray
A health-care reform bill drafted by the Senate Finance Committee would expand health coverage to nearly 30 million Americans who currently lack insurance and would meet President Obama's goal of reducing the federal budget deficit by 2019, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.
The bill would cost $829 billion over the next decade, but would more than offset that cost by slicing hundreds of billions from government health programs such as Medicare and by imposing a 40 percent excise tax on high-cost insurance policies starting in 2013.
All told, the package would slice $81 billion from projected budget deficits over the next 10 years, the CBO said, and continue to reduce deficits well into the future.
It would also expand coverage to 94 percent of Americans by 2019, the CBO said, up from the current 83 percent.
The assessment by Congress's nonpartisan auditors has been awaited by committee members as they prepare to vote on the bill, perhaps as soon as Thursday. And the CBO report lends a huge political boost to the Finance Committee's work: distinguishing it as the only one of five bills drafted by various congressional committees that meets every important test established by President Obama and key Democratic leaders.
-- It would cost less than $900 billion over the next decade;
-- It would vastly expand coverage; and
-- It would keep Obama's pledge that health reform will not increase budget deficits by "one dime" now or in the future.
"This is transformative. This is game-changing," Finance committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said. "For two years now, that's exactly what we have been doing in the Finance Committee -- working to get this result."
The committee's vote is expected to be close, and passage could hinge on a handful of senators who have indicated that the CBO's report may sway them.
In a letter to Baucus and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), the committee's ranking Republican, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf cautioned that the analysis is preliminary in large part because the committee has not yet drawn up the bill in legislative language.

~posted in full since you seem to have trouble pulling up links

When your own source contradicts itself... ummm... yeah... [:D]




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:54:21 PM)


You are implying that government insurance will be far superior to private insurance, and I'm not convinced. I truly believe that you are looking at Obamacare through some very rosy spectacles.

Right now we're luring physicians from other countries because we pay them so well here, but under Obamacare budget restrictions that's sure to change. Those greedy capitalist pig doctors will almost certainly fall under "the evil eye" (or the bewitching eye)  of Obama's pay Czar.  We already have severe nursing shortages here... so there is a strong chance that you will be severely disappointed if you ever get what you're asking for.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We pay for it by lowering the cost of health care.  Access to preventative care lowers hospital costs, medication costs, the need for surgeries, specialized care, ect.






DrkJourney -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:55:54 PM)

I don't know much about all this health care bill talk, but they seem to always stress how there will be "death panels"....big deal, the insurance company has had this job for years.  They love playing God.  You can pay out the a** but if they don't want to cover you when something is wrong, apparently they don't have to, I don't see anyone making them.

At least if they had the balls to just say, "no" I could run with that, but what frustrates me is the lame excuses they give.

Like the lady who passed out at work, ambulance was called, turned out she had a tumor or something in her brain.  She was in a coma for days.  The insurance company said they would not cover her because it was too expensive, and there were less expensive ways to handle it and they actually told her that she should've shopped around before she "let" any one treat her.

I've been to the emergency room and the amount they paid, they might as well have just been added to my bill....it was almost a thousand dollars, and theirs wasn't even three hundred.  You wonder sometimes why you even have insurance




Sanity -> RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter (10/16/2009 8:59:00 PM)

From your quote:

quote:

The bill would cost $829 billion over the next decade, but would more than offset that cost by slicing hundreds of billions from government health programs such as Medicare and by imposing a 40 percent excise tax on high-cost insurance policies starting in 2013.


Hmm...




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