RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave

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ishyB -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/21/2009 7:34:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule No one is taking about holding a person captive who is actively TRYING to escape. Are they? Of course not !!! (I hope) Greetings Hierodule, I've tried to leave before. Master simple told me that I was not allowed to leave... I smiled, and told him that I had the legal right to leave and that he could not stop me. He smiled back to me, and told me that he was not going to allow me to leave. After that, we spend the next few hours with him talking into me, talking to me, and drilling me for answers to questions he had about the psychological state I was in at the time. I was unable to physically remove myself from the situation, though I must admit that I did not actually try to get up and step out. I don't know what he would have done if I had, but my bet is that he would have restrained my physical ability to move further than already was the case. After a few hours, I was exhausted, and I gave into him, telling him exactly what he wanted to hear, even though I was not at all feeling like it. In the weeks after, I often found it incredibly unfair what he did, and the urge to leave often popped up again. I didn't leave. Though I still often have moments where I wish I could/would. Some days are better than others, some days are good, and some days are absolutely horrible. I'm not sure why I don't leave, and if I'm making the choice to stay or not. I do know that should I again decide to attempt to leave, Master will do whatever is in his power to stop me from doing so... and I can assure you that his power reaches quite far. I wish you well, ishy

porcelaine -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/21/2009 7:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule I feel like The fact that you brought it up to you partner would imply consent. Espeacially if you two already came to the agreement that you were to be kept at all costs . The agreement it's self is consent. You are consenting to non-consent. And I have to admit its kinda hot! I was talking about someone using brute force to physically prevent someone from walking out the door who had clearly stated that they have withdrawn their consent or who never consented to being captured in the first place. If I consented to giving my body to someone for their use, anytime as they see fi,t then it is impossible for them to rape me. Even if they have sex with me when I absolutely don't want it. I already gave my consent to be used. So if you have consented to internal enslavement and they prevent you from leaving they aren't keeping you against your will becasue you consented to being prevented. chuckles thank you. as His property He owns my mind and everything else involved with my person. which means feeling and thoughts as well. if these ideas are circulating in my head, i'm obligated to disclose them and tell Him. He cannot address what i won't confess. taking matters into my own hands and packing my bags and leaving without a discussion would be unthinkable. i am His indentured servant, but my yoke is internal instead. in regard to being physically restrained, you really don't want me to address that. i will say that if He believes that my mind has gone amok and some quiet time is necessary to get things back in order, i would hope He makes certain that occurs. i'm His receptacle. His property, His piece, whatever descriptive adjective you'd like to apply. i don't seek permission from things i own. i use them at will. rape never applies. how can He assault a body i no longer own? He is merely taking what is His. if i elect not to enjoy the act and protest, that's my problem and of course doing such may wield consequences. this doesn't take into account if there's an actual reason why performance might prove challenging. but not being in the mood and saying not now just won't fly. i'm very glad that it doesn't. property with the authority to dictate terms can no longer be seen as such. [;)] porcelaine

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/21/2009 9:39:02 PM)
Greetings girl, quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB Greetings Hierodule, I've tried to leave before. Master simple told me that I was not allowed to leave... I smiled, and told him that I had the legal right to leave and that he could not stop me. He smiled back to me, and told me that he was not going to allow me to leave. This is pretty consistant with things I have seen your owner write, and in my communications with him. He and I share much thought on this issue. quote: After that, we spend the next few hours with him talking into me, talking to me, and drilling me for answers to questions he had about the psychological state I was in at the time. I was unable to physically remove myself from the situation, though I must admit that I did not actually try to get up and step out. I don't know what he would have done if I had, but my bet is that he would have restrained my physical ability to move further than already was the case. You are damn right he would have, just as I did to amira just a few weeks ago. Once she had settled down, gotten out of her emotional episode, I took the chain off her neck. I told her that now that she was rational, if she took the choice of the door to not look back, and she knows I mean it. She is more frightened of a life dealing with the things she did before, than of any of the unpleasantries of being property. quote: After a few hours, I was exhausted, and I gave into him, telling him exactly what he wanted to hear, even though I was not at all feeling like it. In the weeks after, I often found it incredibly unfair what he did, and the urge to leave often popped up again. There is no fair, girl. There is only what there is. quote: I didn't leave. Though I still often have moments where I wish I could/would. Some days are better than others, some days are good, and some days are absolutely horrible. Such is life, but know that though we may show a stone face, with sheer determination behind us, owners of property have good days and absolutely horrible ones too. Take solace that there are things you can do to ease your owner's horrible days. quote: I'm not sure why I don't leave, and if I'm making the choice to stay or not. I do know that should I again decide to attempt to leave, Master will do whatever is in his power to stop me from doing so... and I can assure you that his power reaches quite far. I wish you well, ishy You are not sure why you don't leave? Have you forgotten the feelings of being lost, no purpose, and without a strength to keep you feeling alive? You know, it is just difficult to admit. Doing what we do, being "unfair" does not mean we do not love or have deep affection for our slaves. It means that we have the determination and will to do what we feel must be done. We determine what is right and wrong in our households, with our families, and with our property. Have you ever before felt so secure in such strength? Some will never feel that, and it will be their loss. Some will deny that it exists, and they have already lost. Where you are now, is not lost, but you are home with the one who owns you. Send my regards to your owner, and I have a possible deal I am closing that may take me to his home state. If so, I will be bringing along amira and planning on a side trip to visit. serve well, Orion

ishyB -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/21/2009 10:18:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You are damn right he would have, just as I did to amira just a few weeks ago. Once she had settled down, gotten out of her emotional episode, I took the chain off her neck. I told her that now that she was rational, if she took the choice of the door to not look back, and she knows I mean it. She is more frightened of a life dealing with the things she did before, than of any of the unpleasantries of being property. Thank you for your reply Master, Master has something similar in place. He has always told me that should I come to him and beg for release, for the right reasons, he would give me a certain period of time to think about it, about a week or so, and if I then still was determined to leave, he would let me go. He says that he would only do it this way should I beg release for the right reasons though, and him being the... euhm coughs man that he is, he of course refuses to tell me what the "right" reasons would be. [:)] As for the wrong reasons, he wouldn't even consider releasing me in those circumstances. Regardless of my own determination to leave. Being unhappy is not considered a valid reason either, I tried that one already... [8\|] He said he simple didn't care. quote: There is no fair, girl. There is only what there is. Yes Master quote: Such is life, but know that though we may show a stone face, with sheer determination behind us, owners of property have good days and absolutely horrible ones too. Take solace that there are things you can do to ease your owner's horrible days. Men indeed do have bad days too. In fact, my "freak-out" episodes appear to be more a reflection of his state of mind; how stressed, busy, tired, distracted, annoyed he is, than they are a reflection of what is going on with me. I guess that makes a lot of sense, considering that he IS my whole world, but still it is somehow still always my ass getting kicked in the end. Funny how that works out. [:D] And no, I wouldn't want it any other way. It does make me feel even guiltier about the episodes though, because it seems that every time it would help if I could keep myself on my best behavior, because he is not in the best "shape", I get afflicted with the attention-whore disorder. While when he is on the top of his game, so in turn am I. quote: You are not sure why you don't leave? Have you forgotten the feelings of being lost, no purpose, and without a strength to keep you feeling alive? You know, it is just difficult to admit. Doing what we do, being "unfair" does not mean we do not love or have deep affection for our slaves. It means that we have the determination and will to do what we feel must be done. We determine what is right and wrong in our households, with our families, and with our property. Have you ever before felt so secure in such strength? Some will never feel that, and it will be their loss. Some will deny that it exists, and they have already lost. Where you are now, is not lost, but you are home with the one who owns you. No Master, I have never before felt so secure. Nor have I ever felt more at home, or more myself, or more natural. When I said that I'm not sure why I don't leave, or if I'm making the choice to stay or not, I tried to explain that I don't really always understand what exactly makes that he is able to course me into staying. I don't feel like I'm making a choice to stay; nor do I feel like I'm making the choice not to leave. Somehow, it feels like he is making that choice for me. I'm not sure how he could, seeing that rationally I know that I am legally allowed to leave, but on an emotional level, I NEED his approval to do so. His approval of what I do is more importance than anything else. I don't really understand why or how this is possible. I just know that it is, and I actually don't even care that much about the how and the why... Master doesn't seem to care about it, so it must not be important. [:D] I guess my biggest problem is that I'm a stubborn, greedy little thing... I have it all, or at least all a girl like me could ever dream of, and yet... I am frustrated because I want more. I want both his mastery and my freedom, which of course, is never going to happen, nor could it happen even if he should allow it. I'm sure he'll get me through this faze, I get the impression that he's mostly toying with the whole thing right now. Still amused at my struggles to resist him. Half the time I wish he’d give me more freedom, the other half of the time I wish he would put me through “boot camp” and restrict everything even more, so I could finally get the illusions of my need for freedom out of my head. In the end, it seems that he will do exactly like he has always done: keep me exactly as he wants to, without considering what I happen to think he should be doing. quote: Send my regards to your owner, and I have a possible deal I am closing that may take me to his home state. If so, I will be bringing along amira and planning on a side trip to visit. I am very excited to hear that Master, and will pass on the news to Master in the morning. I would be very happy to get a chance to meet you both. [:)] I wish you and amira most well, ishy

WyldHrt -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/21/2009 11:03:06 PM)
Psst, Ishy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's the "s" part of MSLA that is posting, not the "Master" [;)] quote: When did it become illegal to whack someone's ass? If things like "anal" in certain states, for example, that's not specific to BDSM. I'd be curious to know what specific acts you're referring to. If you don't know the answer to this, I have to wonder how much you know about BDSM and the law. In many places, it is very much illegal to "whack someone's ass". It's called battery, and one cannot legally consent to it. Should I at some point make too much noise while we play, it is conceivable that a neighbor will call the police. If the police respond and walk in on our play, or find me restrained/ crying/ bruised, I can pretty much guarantee that Sir will get hauled away, no matter what I have to say about it. Should an officer see him actually hit me, chances are good that he will be prosecuted whether I like it or not. quote: In this regard, we nearly agree... where choice and ability are different things. Consider for a moment that CHOICE still exists (as I've repeatedly stated), despite ability (what I've been calling "execution" and/or "action"); which is a separate issue. Your postion appears to be that "ability" trumps "choice". While I understand your position, I would argue CHOICE will eventually win out if the someone's honest choice is to leave. Note: This is not a new dynamic... battered women freqently behave in the same way, and stay/leave for their own reaons. But those that truly desire to leave, make the CHOICE to do so... and do. Horseshit. A severe agorophobic can make the CHOICE to run through an open field any time xhe likes, that doesn't change the fact that xhe is very likely UNABLE to do so much as walk out the front door, any more than CHOOSING to flap my arms and fly will give me the ABILITY to do so. That's pretty much what we are talking about here, hard mental limitations on choice that you obviously don't understand. The fact that these limitations are often imposed with consent in no way mitigates the reality of the limitations themselves. Before you shoot your mouth off about things like Stockholm Syndrome and choice, you might want to do some research.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 4:43:29 AM)
That is an easy way to side step and avoid engaging in actual discussion. That seems to be the best you have you have to defend your position in absolutes. That is okay, because there are a few others that are engaging you, that are saying about the same thing I am, so my position is still being presented to you from others. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You have quite the fragile ego to have to resort to making things personal. Thus, there is no value in communicating with you further. Your positions and posture smack of fantasy nonsense. Engage someone who doesn't find your behavior juvenile.

ishyB -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 6:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt Psst, Ishy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's the "s" part of MSLA that is posting, not the "Master" [;)] Thanks. [:)] I thought it might be, but I haven't heard from the person myself, or have I personally caught indications of such in the posts of them I've read so far. In any event, unless they personal tell me differently... I'd rather defer to a slave a couple of times, without the need too, than get my ass kicked for not addressing a free person properly.[;)]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 8:59:54 AM)
Given I've "engaged in an actual discussion" with several others and not you, the problem is very obviously YOU, your fragile ego and inability behave like an adult. Engage someone else who doesn't find your behavior juvenile. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf That is an easy way to side step and avoid engaging in actual discussion. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You have quite the fragile ego to have to resort to making things personal. Thus, there is no value in communicating with you further. Your positions and posture smack of fantasy nonsense. Engage someone who doesn't find your behavior juvenile.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 9:15:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt If you don't know the answer to this, I have to wonder how much you know about BDSM and the law. In many places, it is very much illegal to "whack someone's ass". It's called battery... ...about things like Stockholm Syndrome and choice Swing and a miss! Go look up "Criminal Battery". It references "offensive" (i.e., unwanted, non-consenting) "touching" of another. With regard to "Stockholm Syndrome", it is a psychological response sometimes seen in abducted hostages (a hostage has not given consent) in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger or risk in which they have been placed. Thus, if you don't know the law (or psychology) and use these things incorrectly on boards such as this, "I have to wonder how much YOU [really] know about BDSM and the law [or psychology]". The remainder of your post has already been addressed in prior answers to others... an inability (for whatever reason) does not, ipso-facto, remove the existence of CHOICE being present. Re-read answers given to others for further detail if you so desire. The original premise stated still stands... EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE... to stay, leave, or prance about wearing a funny hat.

mnottertail -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 9:17:00 AM)
Uff Da. Just fuckin' Uff Da. Ron

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 9:27:07 AM)
Let us see if you can answer this. You state an absolute that a slave can leave at any time. The word "can" describes the ability to do so. Many slaves have told you that they are enslaved to such a degree that they no longer have the ability. So what is your position to those that say they can't?

porcelaine -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 9:34:47 AM)
i fail to see the purpose of debating at all. those that are seeking enslavement and a relationship where the manacles will be affixed in a fashion where their removal is all but impossible, are going to align themselves with someone that hopefully wants the same. i believe everyone is entitled to their view. but that doesn't imply that my opinion should mirror theirs. from what i've read this far, i'm left to wonder why discussions of this nature always result in a standoff and verbal diatribes that seek to negate other peoples lifestyles and ways of thinking. does it really matter if you're not engaging with this individual? or if they haven't come to you seeking advice or correction? based on those questions alone i have a hard time imagining that it would. porcelaine

ranja -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/22/2009 10:18:01 AM)
FR i think its always a matter of choice too... in the West at least... i don't know so much about other cultures and poorer countries... obviously there are a lot of people who like to believe they have no choice, and i suppose in our free thinking society they have the right to think that and say that too..... also there are people who like to think that they are totally the boss of some of the people who think that they have no choice.... well don't they fit well together.....

Pudicitia -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (10/23/2009 3:51:02 PM)
Fast Reply quote: ORIGINAL: slaveyslave i am a born slave it is in my heart and soul. i have been in a couple of TPE part-time relationships but am still looking for the perfect 247 TPE relationship because i know that is were i belong. But this is my whiny post just to see how other slaves feel. i see a slave as being below a sub in that a slave has no choice in what he does once he choices an Owner. Question is do any other TPE slaves sometime wish they were not slave? Ever been sleeping on the floor and wish you could be in a nice warm bed? Ever wish you could cum anytime you wanted? Ever wish you could pee without permission? and so on? i would like to know what you miss about your life before you became a slave. slavey I haven't read the entire thread. I have never wished I wasn't a slave. I am a submissive, a service girl, to the bone. There are times when I wish it was easier, moments when I think how much simpler life could have been in a vanilla relationship. Those thoughts are always followed with this knowledge ... that easier, simpler life would be unfulfilling, it would be unhappy, I wouldn't be secure there, I wouldn't be content. The daily expectations, the life I am guided to, makes me happy because I have found an Owner and am trained by Dominants who love and care for me, and work for my happiness as hard as I work for Theirs. Sir has never let me down, never asked anything of me which makes me unhappy. Sometimes His wishes may not be my own but He has never expected something unreasonable from me. They always have a reason, always have a purpose - to please Him or to help me on my journey. The practicalities of my life are (it seems) very different to yours. Where you sleep or when you urinate is not a measure of TPE slavery IMHO. The measure of submission to me is the degree to which you obey. I sleep in a bed, if Sir directed me to sleep in the garden I would, without question. I have never been in a fully vanilla closed relationship. I have only ever been in either a submissive role, or in an open relationship. There is nothing to miss about life "before" ... I grew up into adulthood in relationships where my partner's wishes were more important than my own, and that their decisions were the ones I lived by. The life I live now, as a submissive under consideration by the Head of a Leather family, is different to the D/s relationships I have been in previously. I do not miss any part of those lives. I learned what I needed a little at a time from though previous relationships and am blessed to have found the things I need (and so much more I never knew I wanted) here with Sir and His family. I am blessed, I live a charmed life and am grateful for it everyday. My submission is integral to that, so I would never wish it differently.

osf -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (12/23/2009 10:12:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: osf what young girl in her right mind would say "when i grow up i wanna be some mans slave" ? One who was always a very independent and creative thinker and didn't let societal mores brainwash or influence what she knew was right for herself, even at a very young age? the premise is all things equal she has no leaning one way or the other, would she want to be a slave

lally2 -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (12/23/2009 11:47:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IdiotMale Sorry I'm not one of them..Facts are facts. I do love however how many of you on here ask for opinions and then get annoyed,pissed off etc. when someone gives their opinion that you don't agree with. first off, hi. slavery goes way way back to neolithic times when communities were ambushed and women were abducted for breeding. the ones who didnt fight and resist lived and settled, it was a way of life to them. aztecs took people for sacrifice its true. romans took people as servants and slaves to be gladiators, eunucks, personal staff and not all of them were shackled, beaten and treated badly. not all servants and slaves throughout history lived miserable lives. many were treated very well. though many certainly werent. the point im trying to make here is that enslavement and TPE is different for different people. what you choose for youreself to suit youre personality and needs is one way. for myself, who identifies more with TPE than Ds i like that my Master has the final decision over things, i like to be in a TPE relationship, but i also like to have my individuality enjoyed and i like to be cuddled in bed. when you tell people how TPE should be according to youre tastes and beliefs you are going to come across as saying that youre way is the only way and everyone else is playing at it. that is wrong. not all slaves in history were treated badly, not all slaves given their freedom took it. not all slaves in TPE today sleep on the floor or eat from a dog bowl or whatever.

osf -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (12/23/2009 11:54:30 AM)
the ottoman empire had slaves for its army

lally2 -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (12/23/2009 1:12:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Let us see if you can answer this. You state an absolute that a slave can leave at any time. The word "can" describes the ability to do so. Many slaves have told you that they are enslaved to such a degree that they no longer have the ability. So what is your position to those that say they can't? id like to answer this, but im not arguing with you at all [:)] having been in IE and requested release i think i can answer this a little bit. even though released and even though it was months ago now i still feel owned by this man. i havent yet shaken that feeling off. i attempted another Ms relationship that failed and looking back im pretty sure its because i still feel enslaved to this man who was my Master. emotionally i havent left, physically i did leave because emotionally the enslavement that i was under became shaken to such a degree i lost faith in his ability to make the right decisions for me. self preservation kicked in. as much as i responded to him as my Master, as much as i loved him, as internally enslaved as i was and still am and as difficult as it has been to move on i chose to do so. in the end, for me anyway the 'cant' became 'i must'. but i do remember the 'cant' as being His 'power' over me where i retreated back into the feelings that felt good and still kept faith and were infinitely more prefferable to the unthinkable 'i must' that made everything miserable. it was a slow extrication that took two attempts and lots of upset. im not sure if i read it right, but the suggestion that you have to be OCD or some such nonsense in order to experience IE is, well, nonsense. i dont infact believe that IE is that rare a thing. i think that many many people reach it within a relationship or a situation. IE in TPE is just one expression of it.

favesclava -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (12/23/2009 6:40:34 PM)
i think of the time before Him and i never ever want to be that girl again. His slave forever. His and no other.

yummee -> RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave (8/29/2010 2:42:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yummee Right now, I am wishing I was not a slave. My mother has another back surgery coming up in January. Since it is not her first, nor expected to be her last, recovery time will be long. I am her only daughter. I live 3,000 miles away with B, and have for years. I deal with guilt over leaving her in the hands of my brothers. She has a chronic disease and has had it for over 20 years. When news of the newest surgery hit, B said we would move back to Louisiana so that I could once again care for my mother. Then, the economy took a nosedive and he is now saying I should go care for her during her recovery then return to him. I've already told my mother and the rest of my family that we are coming home. Now, I am going to have to break my mother's heart and say its only temporary. I am devastated. I understand all the reasons. He has a really really good job, secure even in this economy. He would not get near that in Louisiana at this time. I don't want to leave him, even temporarily. I don't want to tell my mother I'm not really coming home. I am devastated and I don't want to be a slave at this time. I know how this will play out, however. I will do as B instructs. I do not have the will to do anything different. I feel like I am on some Jerry Springer show or something and people should be screaming at me, "How could you chose a man over your blood family?!?!?" Really, how could I? I agree. The answer is, because I am B's slave. I just don't have it in me to not be his slave. So, yes, there are times when I wish I was different (not a slave) ... strong enough to be free, to blaze my own path, to stand on my own, to live and die by my own code and choices. But, I am B's slave. Most of the time, it's bliss, but now and then, something happens that makes me think, "What the hell is wrong with me?" Such is life. I just have to suck it up and go on the only way I can ... as his. Sorry to revive an old thread, but wanted to give a quick update. My mother's surgery was postponed from January to early May. Since I was running a B&B at the time and we had no rent to pay, this postponement allowed B to start socking money away like mad. Those 3 months allowed him to build up a cushion. Late April, we quit our jobs and hopped a plane to Louisiana. I was shocked at the stop in Vegas ... 4 days and a wedding. We arrived (married) in Louisiana the day before her surgery, stayed with her 3 months so I could take care of her. She is doing well. The implant has been amazing for her. B was able to find a job about an hour from her, and commuted an hour each way (making his 10-hour shifts seem like 12's) without complaint until she was able to live on her own again. Two weeks ago, B moved us to the small town he works in. I was fortunate to find a job almost immediately. There are still struggles. They money isn't as much (but the cost of living here makes up for it), we've wiped out our savings, I am having to work a 40-hour week when he'd prefer I only work 20-30, and I am an hour's drive from my mother. I am so grateful I can hardly stand it. Just sharing some happy news for a change.

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