RE: Some universal truths in different religions

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rulemylife -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 11:16:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 AC/DC Who made Who? I think you posted this on a religious thread before and I think it bears repeating that a lot of people don't understand what that song was about. They've had some lyrics in other songs that referred to the same thing.

rulemylife -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 11:22:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales tazzy, I want to make clear that even though I am an atheist, I do not feel the need to convince anyone that their religious beliefs or faith are wrong. It's quite the reverse. I personally would hesitate to change anyone's faith based beliefs in and of themselves. If believing that a God or spirit or political belief system helps someone get through the day and maybe actually do some good, I have no problem with it. This is where I have a problem. I feel as you do, but understand that many religious sects believe it is their duty to "spread the word" of God, Jesus, Rush, whatever.

Lorr47 -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 11:29:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 AC/DC Who made Who? I think you posted this on a religious thread before and I think it bears repeating that a lot of people don't understand what that song was about. They've had some lyrics in other songs that referred to the same thing. Ah, yes. You were the only person who ever understood what I was referring to. If you ruminate about the theory long enough, it makes as much sense as the others. I am an athiest, but I do not criticize theists much. I tend to run under the protection of Christians every time I read about Islam. They can put a crucifix in my yard anytime. I feel that I can be a atheist because Christianity exits and protects my right to be an atheist in these modern times.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 12:51:50 PM)
quote: feel as you do, but understand that many religious sects believe it is their duty to "spread the word" of God, Jesus, Rush, whatever. ORIGINAL: rulemylife Again, I have no problem with the faith. It's just the proselytizers that make me nervous. I don't even mind the opinion on where I will spend eternity as long as they don't try to change it. One of my friends is a very religious Christian. She has told me in so many words that she feels that if I do not accept Jesus Christ as my saviour, I will end up in hell for eternity. She has also said that, while she finds this sad, she doesn't feel it her place to make my life miserable because of it. That kind of faith and religion I can accept.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 1:13:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire And the correct path is...? (Just taking a wild stab here... it's the one YOU, personally, think is right?) Again, we're back to #1 and #2 on my list... I've been giving this some serious thought and my conclusions are people should follow the path that nobody but themselves influences. One person for one life. It's all I've ever said actually: that organised spirituality isn't at all spiritual because everyone must start out by guessing the answers to things they don't know or even what questions about existence they think should be dealt with. The human imagination doesn't exist so that two people can agree the best answer to an unanswerable question. Everything about a human seems to be about individuality so to follow the ideas of others without proof is against the basic design of the human imagination. Obviously the inherent paradox of this is I'm telling someone the correct path is to not listen to me or anyone else thus why should anyone not listen to me or anyone else? When you get to the end of the road turn left!

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 2:57:12 PM)
Damn correcting you seems to be a habit lately. I used Isaiah 45:7 and something written in the Tao Te Ching, to compare the two. Basically both state something similar to a lot of neo-paganism, and that is nature is neither good or evil, it just is. So do people disagree that whatever created the universe, just is, and is neither good nor evil? This whatever could be anything from a fluke incident, mathematical equation, or a supreme being. My OP also asked if anyone else knew of others, but those that are threatened and insecure by a belief of any kind, seem to have used this to bash at beliefs again, and have nothing meaningful to add to discussion. So where is the disagreements in the statements anyway? quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl This is formal, organized religion, based upon the teachings of men, many with ulterior motives. Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others. Actually, it seems to be a religion-promoting thread, by Orion stating that a quote from Isaiah is a "universal truth". So you can't call it bashing when you have disagreement with that statement.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 2:59:23 PM)
That is a good question, but not a point of my OP. If you want to post in a seperate topic, I would be happy to contribute, as I have read much on the manifestation of human beliefs into a religion, and the psychology behind it. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I think we can all agree that Man created religion. As such, why do we need religion to find the truth, can't we simply find it on our own, like those who wrote those books and such ? T

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 3:03:17 PM)
~FR~ Another I have found before: Matthew 26:52 - Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." Tao Te Ching 30 - Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men doesn't try to force issues or defeat enemies by force of arms. For every force there is a counterforce. Violence, even well intentioned, always rebounds upon oneself. P.S. This is not about specific religions, but some of the wisdom found in some of the writings. Maybe a well versed Buddhist knows of some that correspond with any of these, or any other religion for that matter.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 3:04:28 PM)
Do not murder? Do not steal? Not universal? quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Which I guess gets us back to the concept of universal truths which I do not believe exist.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 3:08:03 PM)
Wicca, Taoism, and a few others say the same thing. It is nice when walking down a path you can speak to others about common scenery though. quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I've been giving this some serious thought and my conclusions are people should follow the path that nobody but themselves influences.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 3:10:01 PM)
Leviticus 7: "Always take the free pens".

thornhappy -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 3:14:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 quote: Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others. Do as to others as you would have them do unto you. (or something like that.) Prior to Christianity, it was "Do not unto others as you would have them do not unto you." It does make a difference... some Christians proselytise to anyone they perceive as unbelievers, much to the "unbelievers" annoyance. But those Christians will consider this valid under the Golden Rule, since of course you would want to be saved from eternal damnation. Now, consider if said Christians were to receive the same from Jews or Muslims. They'd probably take offense, saying that they were firm in their religious beliefs. Under the second version, you wouldn't proselytise, because you wouldn't want folks trying to convert you.

GotSteel -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 6:19:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 Do as to others as you would have them do unto you. (or something like that.) Be careful telling that to masochists.

GotSteel -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 7:32:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 I am an athiest, but I do not criticize theists much. I tend to run under the protection of Christians every time I read about Islam. They can put a crucifix in my yard anytime. I feel that I can be a atheist because Christianity exits and protects my right to be an atheist in these modern times. Um....Muslims are theists.

rulemylife -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 8:01:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Again, I have no problem with the faith. It's just the proselytizers that make me nervous. I don't even mind the opinion on where I will spend eternity as long as they don't try to change it. One of my friends is a very religious Christian. She has told me in so many words that she feels that if I do not accept Jesus Christ as my saviour, I will end up in hell for eternity. She has also said that, while she finds this sad, she doesn't feel it her place to make my life miserable because of it. That kind of faith and religion I can accept. Unfortunately that live-and-let-live attitude seems rare. Many faiths teach that proselytizing is a duty of the faithful.

rulemylife -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 8:15:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Damn correcting you seems to be a habit lately. I used Isaiah 45:7 and something written in the Tao Te Ching, to compare the two. Basically both state something similar to a lot of neo-paganism, and that is nature is neither good or evil, it just is. So do people disagree that whatever created the universe, just is, and is neither good nor evil? This whatever could be anything from a fluke incident, mathematical equation, or a supreme being. My OP also asked if anyone else knew of others, but those that are threatened and insecure by a belief of any kind, seem to have used this to bash at beliefs again, and have nothing meaningful to add to discussion. So where is the disagreements in the statements anyway? Gosh golly, thanks Orion for correcting me. Just one question................a small point......................somewhat trivial I guess..............but why is it your beliefs are correct and those who disagree are just insecure and threatened and "bashing beliefs"? It would seem to me that those who cannot discuss the shortcomings in their beliefs are the ones insecure and threatened. I guess my main disagreement is that you believe the universe had to have a point of creation. You make the argument that whatever created the universe "just is", so why is it illogical to assume the universe "just is"?

tazzygirl -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 9:47:51 PM)
double post.. sorry

tazzygirl -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 9:49:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 quote: Find me where these truths lay with Ghandi. With any informal religious belief. Then we can speak of universal truths. Until then, its turning into a religion bashing thread, not unlike many of the others. Do as to others as you would have them do unto you. (or something like that.) Prior to Christianity, it was "Do not unto others as you would have them do not unto you." It does make a difference... some Christians proselytise to anyone they perceive as unbelievers, much to the "unbelievers" annoyance. But those Christians will consider this valid under the Golden Rule, since of course you would want to be saved from eternal damnation. Now, consider if said Christians were to receive the same from Jews or Muslims. They'd probably take offense, saying that they were firm in their religious beliefs. Under the second version, you wouldn't proselytise, because you wouldn't want folks trying to convert you. Some.... some do... some dont... but we lump them all into the "do" pile because they may, regardless if they have.

rulemylife -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/18/2009 10:54:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Do not murder? Do not steal? Not universal? Do not murder? Except of course it being allowed in circumstances that we deem socially appropriate, as in our duty to go to war for our country. So it is not really a truth. Maybe a half-truth? A little white lie? Do not steal. Hmmmm. That seems to raise some questions about it being a universal truth as well. Such as when, if you are in business, does profiting from your customers cross the line into exploiting your customers and into what could be interpreted as violating your "do not steal" universal truth. But then we justify that through the concept of "let the buyer beware". So how universal are these truths?

Kirata -> RE: Some universal truths in different religions (10/19/2009 1:47:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Do not murder? Except of course it being allowed in circumstances that we deem socially appropriate, as in our duty to go to war for our country. So it is not really a truth. Maybe a half-truth? A little white lie? Looks to me more like a problem reading and comprehending English. "Murder" is the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law (my italics). Where killing is deemed to be justified in law, it's not murder. Not to put too fine a point on it, to "murder" does not mean to "kill". It means to kill under specific proscribed circumstances. K.

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