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RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 11:52:19 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Wow, eight pages of a man stating what works for him and what he is looking for, and almost everyone else trying to trip him up, knock him down and demean him. How petty are the people that can't just say "Eh, it doesn't work for me but, whatever floats your boat, buddy." and walking away. Do people really need to demean and debase someone so that they can feel better about themselves?

It seems so.

Nice way to start off on the boards though. Salue!!



and why don't you take your own advice then..... those who choose confront him are doing what works for them.... so "eh, it doesn't work for you uh?" Well then why do you feel the need to take a passive aggressive dig then? If you truly believe what you spout... I think you would of just walked away from this thread. but eh... it's funny how if one wants to be self-righteous.... that it works alot better if there isn't any thinly disguised attacks with one's behavior.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/18/2006 12:17:04 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 12:06:31 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

I did put them out for comment but I didn’t expect some of the really negative comments


I think what you didn't expect was to be called upon to support your stance with logical rationale.

Two gazillion people may agree with you, that doesn't make you right.
One person may disagree with you, that doesn't make you wrong.

It is the debate, the exchange of ideas and thoughts, where the strength of our belief is forged, or the weaknesses are found. Questions or differing views on what you write are not attacks, they are opportunities to examine the validity of your words, to find and fix the inconsistencies.
You seem unwilling or unable to do so despite the many kind efforts from some of the posters here to help you with that.


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 12:38:57 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

The theme is consistent to a certain style of d/s that not all subscribe to

some don’t seem to realize that I’m dealing with a very inconstant subject, namely human sexuality and desires.


well... it's pretty consistent that no one person's style is what others specifically perscribe to... Except maybe ones partner... be even then there is often thin differences or ideals that can be found in the details. Oh I think people very much realize that change and flux is a common factor in dealing with human nature as whole and not just human sexuality and desires. However, we not talking about change or flux... But, specifically, Bita was expressing direct states that conflicted with each other in your particular style. Instead of Rationalizing and explaining these inconsistencies or at the least expressing how your thoughts/style have changed and maybe even why. You choose to ignore it!

You asked a question... Bita responded to your question and challenge.... you might not agree with it... you didn't even have to comment on it... But as minimum... a Thank you for her efforts to answering your question and challenge was in order. By a lack of acknowledgement and polite manners All you have done is left a perception that only expresses your distaste and discomfort with anyone that challenges your thoughts. It leads me to consider do you want a submissive.. or do you want a doormat, amoung other things?


quote:


the points I make in each section are consistent with the whole.


um... NO! but not much point expressing the inconsistency since your behavior express a lack of appreciation for such discourse.


quote:


And as for the cheering section, it’s not a valid point unless it’s contrary?

After what human social construct is grounded in physical reality, from the money in your pocket to the silly laws we have to live by

I’ve tried to answer the most valid points , but nitpicking I find too distracting.


Actually the point was.... "you behavior is showing more and more that a point is not valid unless it is a cheer... and that contrary opinion or thoughts are avoided!" You behavior is not one seeking intellectual discourse... But intellectual Validation to your thoughts!

It is my thoughts and opinions that you seek to answer only the valid points that required clarification to your thoughts and opinions. Anything that remotely challenges them are well labeled as Nitpicking and distracting.





quote:


And which of your fantasies are any more real and valid?

Our fantasies are only as real as we make them like the money in your pocket

so if two people come together and agree to live a certain way, then their lives are real.



and the point of these comments.?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:02:09 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

What’s love got to do with it. A submissive woman finds the dominant of her dreams, he can flog with the best, administering all the delicious pain she craves. Then one day it’s gone, over, no more pain just soft girly whacks. Could it be that he’s fallen in love with her? Yes! Evolution has imparted in us a capacity for love. Love was necessary to keep the family together and keep the male faithful to his mate so she could raise their off spring. Love had to serve the dual role of nurturing and protection. Flogging your mate is counter to this instinctive love. Before falling in love with her, he may not have instinctively thought of her as the mother of his children and flogging her was not counter to his familial responsibilities. It’s easier to mistreat the others than ones own kin, and now he sees her through the eyes of kinship. This instinctive urge to protect won’t allow him to hurt. Thus love has made him a totally useless dominant to her. A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to be hurtful to her and still love her, thus love hurting her. The responsible dominant has the ability to keep these abnormal feelings under control so as not to go too far and thus really damaging her. This balancing act of love and hurt makes good dominants rare. It is much easier to be submissive than a truly good dominant. As he is the one in control of her he first has to be in control of himself. If not in control he may go too far with disastrous consequences. A submissive that enjoys heavy play should be aware of this when seeking a dominant and the consequences a dominants love could have either way. She may be placing her fate in the hands of someone that may loose control.
A mildly sadistic man can be fun, a madly sadistic man may be fatal.




clearly you are not a sadist... for there is no conflict between a Love one can have for their Intimite Partner and the SadoMasocistic Play that can be enjoyed between them. For the Sadist and Masochist... the play is very much an expression of love! Infact, to without the pleasure of this play can be considered a punishing act!

I am always intrigued by the thoughts of non-sadists that consider hurt and love a balancing act. They comment on it like it is a universal view. But, since they don't live within the Dynamics of Loving Sadomasochistic relationship, they truly can not understand or appreciate that the two are not opposites.... in fact they can and do co-exist and a very beautiful harmony for those that are being who they are.. not being what they think they should be!

I would very much say a submissive person that is has a deep masochistic desires and wants should be careful of the Dominant that is attempting to Balance Love with their Sadistic intents. One does not need to balance them against each other... they each exist in there own right and are not opposites to be balanced against each other. Pity is the masochist that has a Dominant that see it as a Balance... for an imbalance in either direction would leave them with there Well-Being in jepordy!

It not harder or easier to be a good submissive as it is to be a Dominant. It only becomes difficult when one tries to be what is not or deny what one is! I can only suggest.. If one is having difficulty with being who they are.... I suggest one answer these two questions..

1 - who are you trying to be that is not you?

2 - what of yourself are you denying yourself to be?

As one moves their inner self into the demonstrate behaviors they will find happiness... denying the innerself is a sure way to be unhappy.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:14:20 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

clearly you are not a sadist... for there is no conflict between a Love one can have for their Intimite Partner and the SadoMasocistic Play that can be enjoyed between them. For the Sadist and Masochist... the play is very much an expression of love! Infact, to without the pleasure of this play can be considered a punishing act!

I am always intrigued by the thoughts of non-sadists that consider hurt and love a balancing act. They comment on it like it is a universal view. But, since they don't live within the Dynamics of Loving Sadomasochistic relationship, they truly can not understand or appreciate that the two are not opposites.... in fact they can and do co-exist and a very beautiful harmony for those that are being who they are.. not being what they think they should be!

I would very much say a submissive person that is has a deep masochistic desires and wants should be careful of the Dominant that is attempting to Balance Love with their Sadistic intents. One does not need to balance them against each other... they each exist in there own right and are not opposites to be balanced against each other. Pity is the masochist that has a Dominant that see it as a Balance... for an imbalance in either direction would leave them with there Well-Being in jepordy!

It not harder or easier to be a good submissive as it is to be a Dominant. It only becomes difficult when one tries to be what is not or deny what one is! I can only suggest.. If one is having difficulty with being who they are.... I suggest one answer these two questions..

1 - who are you trying to be that is not you?

2 - what of yourself are you denying yourself to be?

As one moves their inner self into the demonstrate behaviors they will find happiness... denying the innerself is a sure way to be unhappy.


I totally agree with your thoughts here.. and yes for the Sadist and the masochist.. it is loving to practice S&M, but many have not come to that epiphany within themselves.

Often many of us have had.. beating = abuse = non-loving .. ingrained in our heads. Over coming that programming can be hard to reconcile the desires to cause someone painful pleasure within yourself.

There is also the fear of losing control of oneself, and enjoying it too much.. so much so that you forget to make sure it is still pleasurable for the masochist.

With all this inner conflict going on... some people might find it troubling to acknowledge that Sadistic actions are actually loving for the Sadist, and an act of love to the masochist.

Took me a while to get to that point myself, and sometimes I find that old programming sneaking in again.

(re-reading this.. I hope I made sense)

V

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:23:13 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		your talking about facts pertaining to human sexual expression like it's quantifiable

and some comments were mean spirited

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:27:11 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to be hurtful to her and still love her, thus love hurting her

he expresses his love through pain, he enjoys that, he loves hurting her

but he can't carry it to it's conclusion, he has to stop short of damaging her ie self control

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:34:59 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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what you stated I think makes perfect sense... I at least feel that I understood what you are saying.

For myself, I find it very difficult to understand those that struggle with the conflicts of being a Sadist or Masochist and as result I am not sure that I can be of much help for those that are struggling with these conflicts

I recognize that the norms of society etc etc etc.... have ingrained alot of thoughts,ideals and beliefs that would lead a person to have conflicts with SM activities. However, for myself, and only myself do I speak and state... I do not feel or have ever felt conflicted on doing these activities. It has always felt like an awakening to me. Each step, each discovery shed light on the aspects that are deep within me. My conflicts have never been about should I be doing this?... but how to be better... what more can I do and learn...... it was more a constructive challenge of growth and discovery than a internal struggle of identity and values.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:45:17 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		it's not a struggle with being a sadist , it's just not carrying it too far

i enjoy giving pain a lot

i just have to know when enough is enough and stop at that level, which is why i dont like to play with whips an such because to me it dosn't feel like i can put much force behind it

i prefer something lighter where i can work at it more strenously without crossing the line

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:51:35 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to be hurtful to her and still love her, thus love hurting her

he expresses his love through pain, he enjoys that, he loves hurting her

but he can't carry it to it's conclusion, he has to stop short of damaging her ie self control


ABNORMAL?

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:52:15 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think i see the confusion , lets cahange the wording a bit

A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to love her and still be hurtful to her, thus love hurting her.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 1:57:31 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to be hurtful to her and still love her, thus love hurting her

he expresses his love through pain, he enjoys that, he loves hurting her

but he can't carry it to it's conclusion, he has to stop short of damaging her ie self control



you are speaking about two very different concepts


SadisticMasochist activites is very much about the enjoyment of pain. The Sadist that carries out to it's conclusion the activities of Sadomasochist will bring Pleasure... NOT DAMAGE or Harm!

Stopping short of damaging a masochist has nothing to do with the enjoyment of pain or SadoMasochistic activites. This is the Concept of Causing Harm. Pain is a sensation.... a sensation that is physical but will often have emotional, intellectual and even spirtual overtones. With Pain comes pleasure for those that are deeply involved into the SM activities... the conclusion of the activity is to bring pleasure. I would be deeply troubled with any one that stretches this activity outside of the concept of pain for pleasure and feels that it leads to Harm or Damage. I would question the motivations of both Sadist and masochist that feel SM activities to their conclusion would mean to cause Harm.

Those that engage in SM activities understand that the motivations are to bring pleasure. When someone moves from the concept of the activites for pleasure of those involved and sees the conclusion of activities as one that could cause damage... Then the motivations are Not consensual SM for pleasure... but are unhealthy motivations thatt can lead a person to ABUSE at it's worse or an unhealthy activity at it's best.

In my opinion Anyone engaged into SM activities should be Motivated to bring Pleasure thru the application of pain! The conclusion is Pleasure!!!! The means is pain!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:03:34 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		but you still have to stop at some point and not use the 2x4 with the nail in the end

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:12:46 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

but you still have to stop at some point and not use the 2x4 with the nail in the end



But that is not SM Motivated for Pleasure of those involved!!!!


That is an Action Intent On Causing HARM!


Two differently motivated concepts!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:14:22 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		even the act you speak of has to be controld, or even by accident you may go too far

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:20:00 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

even the act you speak of has to be controld, or even by accident you may go too far



aaaaaaaaww but that is what you fail to understand...

It's not the ACT that your must restict... IT's the MOTIVATION!!!! The Consensual Sadist Motivation... is to cause Pleasure... His Acts are already restricted because of his Motivation!

The Abusive Sadist.. is to cause Pain... the consequence of damage or harm for them is a real possibility!

One's Motivation for SM dictates the consequences and the possible conclusions!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:23:06 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

i enjoy giving pain a lot



I find this an interesting comment.... especially considering you stated this


quote:


Once at a play party in which I didn’t take much part a bottom came up to me and said she had wanted to see me in action, she didn’t seem to understand my answer that there wouldn’t have been much to see , as much of what I do is communicative. Just talking to her can be more dominating than the hardest spanking, but this usually works only with a submissive you have an emotional attachment to.


so are you saying - thou you enjoy giving pain... there is not much to see for the pain you cause is thru methods using communication?



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:23:26 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		so your saying because you approach it from a different mindset, you cant hurt her?

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:30:58 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

so your saying because you approach it from a different mindset, you cant hurt her?


hurt is not mean Damage.. and it does not mean Harm!


I have not Damaged or Harmed those I have played with, ever! They are like me motivated to have pleasure... when it stops being pleasurable... the play will stop.... !

That doesn't mean that hurt will not occur. A hurtful strike with a flogger is possible... just like hurtful full strikes of the whip or the cane.. or the knife, or the paddle or the egg beater... or the tooth pick....

I am and any is capable of hurting someone... but the persons that are Motivated for pleasure with each other will protect themselves from harm or damage.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 2:36:56 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		all i'm saying is no matter what your motivation your's or mine when your swinging something you gotta be careful and in control

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 180
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