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how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 12:19:32 PM   
andreaC


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks


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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 12:25:47 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Unless someone says to me "I promise", I regard all suggestions they will do something, to be just good thoughts.  I have had more than a few bosses that make promises but really it is just good intentions and not promises.

If however someone constantly says they promise to do something and they do not, I regard them as consistantly unreliable.  For instance I run a munch group, I book a space based on the number of people who promise to attend.  I have 3 or 4 people who promise to be there but I never count them in the tally when booking a restaurant.

I trust ME, to evaluate a person based on their consistant behavior 

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 12:31:08 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Me? I try to live in the real world where real humans do real things. I have yet to meet the perfect human although a wide variety of posters on collarme routinely assert that they are (at least in matters of honor). All of that means that I have to evaluate each situation as it happens rather than trying to live my life by some prefabricated flow chart.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 12:33:02 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I take promises with a grain of salt these days and just go about my daily business. If I see that promise happen then great..it'll be a nice surprise. If it doesn't then no skin off my back either since I was never expecting it to happen in the first place.


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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 1:01:11 PM   
homedespot


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		I'm in a writing mood today apparently.

I think it entirely depends on the context of the relationship. An online sub who writes and promises to read the article and book I require...I don't have any expectation of. They don't do it? No harm. No foul. jssubc promises to do something and doesn't and then lies about it...that would end with him on his knees begging not to have his collar removed.jssubc promises to do something and doesn't write it down and it gets lost in a rush about, that ends with a reminder or a correction.

All relationships, but particularly ones in which you put your physical and mental well-being into the care of another person are built on trust. Only you can decide if this was a mistake, a deliberate act, a lie, a lazyiness, a training opportunity, a betrayal etc. So what does your gut say?

And deception is different then a promise. If I promise to do something and don't that is one thing. If I promise to do something and LIE about it that is another.

J.

< Message edited by homedespot -- 10/18/2009 1:49:47 PM >

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 1:24:57 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?


this isn't deception. one intending to deceive would give the impression that what was promised or agreed upon has been done. if confronted about the fallacy, the party would probably deny it and attempt to substantiate the original claim. which is clearly untrue and deceitful as well. deceit and dishonesty are friendly cousins.

as for promises, i view them as good intentions. life happens and sometimes changes ensue because of this. i believe what you should pay more attention to is their behavior when the promise cannot be completed as stated. are they making a valid attempt to reconcile hurt feelings and complete the act? or is it swept under the rug without notice unless you've addressed it openly? flexibility and patience must exist on both sides. if a person has your well being in mind and is sincere in their interest and feelings, it is unlikely they will make promises with the sole intention of not keeping them. this doesn't discount that it won't occur either. we're all human after all. we make mistakes and overextend ourselves on occasion when we desire to please. i see this phenomenon on both ends.

there's another thing you must remember. there's beauty in forgiveness. reconciliation cannot occur if you're holding on to grievances or maintaining a score card either. it is unhealthy and creates a barrier between you and the other party involved. we must be willing to be disappointed if we sincerely wish to relate with others on an intimate level. what it boils down to is what is most important, the relationship or the issue. whichever you place prominence on is where you'll lean in your decision. if the individual has shown himself to be trustworthy, responsible, yet human as well. i'm more apt to forgive and move forward. i gain nothing positive from dwelling on unpleasant events.

porcelaine


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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 1:46:54 PM   
andreaC


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for all your responses :).  I have to say that for most of my life i have been deceived/disappointed so after many years, it is hard for me to forgive and move on. Therefore, trust is a big issue for me.

thank you :)

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 2:14:53 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks


I don't make promises and if another makes one to me, I take it with a grain of salt.

I don't expect a promise to be kept ,simply because, promises are made to be broken...life itself will see to that.

So, if someone 'makes a promise to me' to do something, and it never comes to pass...I shrug it off because it truly is of no importance. What is important to me is that a person attempt to keep their word.

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 10/18/2009 2:30:15 PM >

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 2:29:16 PM   
bluefireeyez


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Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

Thank you for all your responses :).  I have to say that for most of my life i have been deceived/disappointed so after many years, it is hard for me to forgive and move on. Therefore, trust is a big issue for me.

thank you :)


i have been in the same place you seem to be. However, after a time it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, i would be disappointed because i expected to be disappointed. i have worked hard at trying to reduce this and limit the expectations that i do have.

If someone makes many promises and fails to keep them, then i tend to let them go. If they make a promise but due to the circumstances are unable to meet it, i forgive them and move on.

Deceit is another issue all together. If someone intentionally deceives me, i don't tolerate it. Honesty is important to me and lies only make more lies. Not really a life i want to live.

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 2:52:56 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Do you keep every promise you've ever made? Ever told a friend you had something else to do so you didn't have to listen to them complain any more? We all do that. Unless you are willing to hear the truth without getting upset then you have taught the other person to lie to you.

Now, some promises are more important to others. I'll bake an apple pie that winds up being a peach cobbler because it's quicker and I don't have cooking apples is not the end of the world. I'll explain why I ran out of time and he'll be fine with it. I won't screw around on you followed by transmitting a disease? Goodbye and a lawsuit for damages could well be the result.

But if someone is habitually late, you learn to not meet them at 7 but at 7:15 so you don't have to wait. Or you meet them after work for a drink instead of wasting your lunch hour and not getting to eat. This isn't the end of the world.
And you accept that they aren't sitting there in their office saying "ha ha I have deceived her and gotten her to skip lunch because I enjoy lying".

Being human is a lot different than deliberately lying and deceiving. First learn to separate the two.

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/18/2009 3:31:25 PM   
YourAcquiescent


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks



Wow, I do believe this has many facets of answers. My answer would depend upon the situational events that occurred. Like many has stated above, a promise derives from good intentions but is subject to the person who made that promise. If the promise was broken because something prevented it from becoming complete outside of his/her control then I would overlook it as 'aww, it was a nice thought'. If the promise became incompleted because of the accumulation of time, neglect, and laziness that pushed it to the side then I would just accept it as gone and move on (people are just human, btw). I would never look at a broken promise as deceitful unless it was clear to me they only made the promise out of haste to cover up a bad feeling. If this had been done to me then I would feel disappointed and my trust in that person would be questioned. It is an abusive habit to make a promise knowing that it will conjure up good feelings in your partner and cover up a bad moment only to never have intentions of seeing that promise through. If this happened once then I would overlook it, but if this person kept on abusing me by making false promises then I would talk to them about it and try to get it fixed. For a healthy bdsm relationship to ensue, all habits that jostle your trust in your partner must be nipped in the bud and dealt with, I do believe. 

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/19/2009 3:10:54 AM   
andreaC


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am trying to just forgive and move on, but sometimes promises made do change alot of things and situation.  If i know i might not be able to keep a promise, i just dont say anything because i dont want to hurt the person.  What if a person constantly makes promises, i know i should take it with a grain of salt, but after awhile....does your trust on that person vanishes?

It frustrates me so much at times that i just want to quit everything!!


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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/19/2009 5:26:47 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Oh yes, constantly promising and never coming across is definitely lip service. At that point, I withdraw my trust and my submission in equal measure to their untrustworthiness.

Equally I don't give over total trust in the beginning. If he says he'll meet you at Starbuck's at 4 but doesn't show until 5 and doesn't call to say he has a flat tire, then I'll trust him a lot less and seriously think if I want to meet him again. But if he's there ten of and waiting outside to meet me, I'll agree a lot faster to a dinner date. And so on.

But you need a history with someone to know if they merit trust. And that means spending time together, seeing if they do what they say and say what they do. If they don't, then rethink seeing them again. Because when words and actions disagree, believe actions.

But if you take this repeatedly, you teach people you aren't worth keeping a promise to, that you aren't someone of value. Do you give submission and trust to people who haven't earned it? If so, that's your issue and you need to solve that. It's like giving your whole paycheck to a panhandler and expecting him to give back all but a $5. Ain't gonna happen. How strong are your boundaries?

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/19/2009 5:27:59 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

I am trying to just forgive and move on, but sometimes promises made do change alot of things and situation.  If i know i might not be able to keep a promise, i just dont say anything because i dont want to hurt the person.  What if a person constantly makes promises, i know i should take it with a grain of salt, but after awhile....does your trust on that person vanishes?
It frustrates me so much at times that i just want to quit everything!!


*sigh*
Well, this is going to sound strange but, my trust in that person would not vanish. Much of this though is because I don't put a lot of 'trust' into a promise that someone makes. I apply my same principals to what they are telling me.
Like I said, I do NOT make promises. Period. I do NOT tell someone 'I promise to do this', because something might come up that breaks that promise. Something that I have no control over. I do not even make promises to my kids. What I do is say 'I will try my best' and then, I try my best to do what I said I would do. That's all anyone can do; try their best.

Promises, by their very nature, are binding. And when that binding is broken, too often it is impossible to fix.
Of course, for some, a promise is not as binding as it is for others. Some are able to understand that life DOES AND WILL get in the way sometimes. It still does not change the fact though that most people take PROMISES seriously, and when that promise is broken, so is everything else.

I refuse to let myself be hurt because of something that is under no one's control. I don't make promises, and I don't pay any attention when someone makes one to me. A promise is made to be broken. Sooner or later, it happens; life assures us of that.

I would rather know that a person will try their best; instead of them trying to attempt the impossible.

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/19/2009 11:09:21 PM   
cougar11


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		wow- lot's of well thought out and articulate reponses to this question--- a reflection of the times we have to live in....

the BASIC flaw to their reasoning...is a failure of of trust...a lie is a lie...the ONLY response to deception is to confront the culprit and ask WHY do you LIE? his/her answer will either meet your personal standard or not. Honor and deception are not compatible concepts..I value honor as the MOST desirable character trait...so deception is never acceptable to me.

"do these jeans make me look fat?" ,,,"No the two double cheesburgers for lunch do that!" is an honorable response!! ;)

say it with a smile and accept the earned slap..all is good!

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/20/2009 12:06:51 AM   
justagirlinzh


Posts: 55
Joined: 9/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks


If someone never has any follow through, then I write them off and move on. That's how I deal with it.

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/20/2009 1:01:49 AM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		I don't know if I would consider failing to come through on a promise deception.If someone knowingly making a false promise to get a specific behavior out of someone is manipulation and more that a little distasteful. But to me deception is a flat out lie. I don't tolerate lies but I do tolerate being disappointed because plans change. Sometimes despite our best intentions reality prevents us from doing all the things we wish to do.

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/20/2009 3:35:30 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks



I don't, necessarily, equate a broken promise with deception. The reason behind the broken promise *is* important to me. I promised to be married until 'death us do part' (or words to that effect) and then broke that vow and got divorced from my first husband. When I made the promise, my intention was to honor it. Of course, he had promised to cherish me, as I did him, and he broke that promise as well. When his drinking got excessive, I stayed. When our mutual drug abuse started, I stayed. When the beatings started, I stayed. When he refused to work, I stayed and took a second job. When he tried to hit our daughter, that was my straw and getting my children out of that situation was more important than keeping my vow. Does that mean I can't be trusted? To some, yes, because I broke a promise and the reasons don't matter. To others, no, because I did what was right for the sake of my children (way later than I should have) and, ultimately, it was best for me, too. Was I the perfect little wife and mother? Hell no. I was a fucking cunt to him .. but only later, after he quit cherishing me, and only after the first time he physically put the hurt on me and not in a good, oh this is fun and I consent, sorta way.

All that said, broken promises should be few and far between in my book. If I'm not sure if I can trust your word because sometimes it has meaning and sometimes it doesn't, then I don't trust your word. Being consistant is much more important and the odds and ends that are outside of someone's control, I understand those. Himself rarely promises me anything. Most often I get a we'll see and I so appreciate it because then I don't come to expect it. Now, he did promise me that I could go home for Christmas this year and I expect that to happen and already have my plane ticket purchased. I'd toss that ticket in a split second if some situation came up and he needed me to stay and I wouldn't hold it against him because I know that only some force stronger than him and outside his control would be able to change the plans.. and it would probably have something to do with his physical health or well-being. I trust his word, when he gives it, because it has meaning that has been proven over the long term although there have been the odd times when life, the universe and everything have gotten in the way of a promise. He's pretty stable.. the world, not so much.

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/20/2009 12:51:08 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks



Is it an issue or trust or is it simply his/her inability to deliver what was promised and were there outside factors involved, causing this promise not to be kept

< Message edited by Acer49 -- 10/20/2009 12:53:12 PM >

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RE: how do you deal with deception - 10/20/2009 5:29:54 PM   
andreaC


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justagirlinzh


quote:

ORIGINAL: andreaC

i was wondering how you deal with deception, what if someone has promised, said something to you and you never see what was promised or said`?  Are you able to rely on those persons or you just dont trust them anymore?

thanks


If someone never has any follow through, then I write them off and move on. That's how I deal with it.


I am getting to that point....


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Complete and extremely happy :)
Jeg elsker deg Herre

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