RE: Can't vs Won't

RE: Can't vs Won't (Full Version)

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leadership527 -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 11:21:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine i understand what you're grasping at. we've discussed this privately and i will confess the harsher points were difficult for me in the past. but i was also grappling with an internal conflict of my own and an inability to accept that i desired His cruelty. i no longer have that dissension. even though it causes me pain, there's a measure of contentment that i'm unable to articulate but take comfort in immensely. my reference to cruelty extends beyond the physical. the mental and emotional kind leave a deeper impression that i find more intoxicating. ... and... just because I think this is FINALLY going somewhere other than a train wreck, I'd like to point out that a desire to move further and further towards the TPE end need not include cruelty. That may be a part of the motivation for porcelaine. It is not for Carol and I. There are lots and lots of reasons why someone might choose to do this... probably as many reasons as there are people. I still maintain that Carol's and my reasons, while not being any "purer" in any way than any other reasons, are certainly more understandable to the average person. As I like to joke when I'm talking to a vanilla friend... Hey! All we are doing is exactly what perfectly mainstream and vanilla poets and lyricists have been writing about since the dawn of time. We just happen to take it seriously is all.

lovingpet -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 11:35:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine i understand what you're grasping at. we've discussed this privately and i will confess the harsher points were difficult for me in the past. but i was also grappling with an internal conflict of my own and an inability to accept that i desired His cruelty. i no longer have that dissension. even though it causes me pain, there's a measure of contentment that i'm unable to articulate but take comfort in immensely. my reference to cruelty extends beyond the physical. the mental and emotional kind leave a deeper impression that i find more intoxicating. ... and... just because I think this is FINALLY going somewhere other than a train wreck, I'd like to point out that a desire to move further and further towards the TPE end need not include cruelty. That may be a part of the motivation for porcelaine. It is not for Carol and I. There are lots and lots of reasons why someone might choose to do this... probably as many reasons as there are people. I still maintain that Carol's and my reasons, while not being any "purer" in any way than any other reasons, are certainly more understandable to the average person. As I like to joke when I'm talking to a vanilla friend... Hey! All we are doing is exactly what perfectly mainstream and vanilla poets and lyricists have been writing about since the dawn of time. We just happen to take it seriously is all. Cruelty doesn't have to be a component, but I find nothing wrong with it's inclusion either if it is both desired and healthy within the context of particular relationship. My guess is that it is not desired and would be wholly unhealthy in your case, Jeff and thoroughly desired and vital to the health of the relationship in porcelaine's case. There is no right or wrong here. Inclusion and degree are a both simply a matter of preference. I have a problem with the idea that gets purported that extreme practices are somehow unhealthy and insane. I also have a problem with milder practices being viewed as weak or not "true". Just like the dosing of a medication, some will need more and others will need far less. It doesn't mean it is not the same medicine with similar effects, just that the threshold to experience those effects is greater or lesser. It is no flaw in the person, the drug, or the method. One needing more (except in the case of an addict) or one needing less (except in the case of someone allergic) really has no additional consequences. One can be extreme without tipping into the issues of an "addict" and one can remain very light and not have the fatal reactions of one who's "allergic". I don't know about anyone else, but I find a great deal of satisfaction from getting to taste the many flavors of things this world has to offer. Some will suit me better than others, but I love to dabble in the sweet salsa as much as I like to tempt fate with the toxic waste salsa. I appreciate diversity and enjoy the perspectives of other. I don't need to judge one as better than the other, but just as one that suits my tastes or needs better than another. In so doing, no one is condemned and no one is elevated. I truly love the diversity of opinions here, but also tend to cringe in the face of overblown, emotional truisms. <<Nearly all of this, not directed to either of you whom I've quote btw! [:)] lovingpet

RCdc -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 11:51:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I agree that to some extent, there is a bit of who can be the domliest/slaviest. Humans tend to compete with each other. But really, pretty much everyone here would agree that there is no prize for having more or less limits. There's no competition anywhere and nothing to win. I don't hink anyone's going to argue with you that for a LOT of people, something way less than total is going to be the best answer. But I also feel like you read into some of these posts things that are not there. Honestly, my marriage is happy and filled with love. We live together in a tiny little cottage and, apparently, can spend all day with each other, day in and day out. There's nothing inhuman about it. My personal opinion is that we live the very normal, very vanilla marriage that poets write about. That is the baseline truth for at least my marriage. No matter how "extreme" the authority dynamic looks, it's all about love. It is my suspicion that way more women that you'd think would be happy to give me the submission Carol provides... thrilled even... to get what she gets in return. And I'm talking about normal, vanilla, never-posted-on-collarme, type women. I am really disappointed when I see statements on the percieved domliest/slaveist. Like you say, people are normal. I never see this so called top dog fight - yet I repeatedly see people blasted for doing so. Just because someone doesn't limit themselves - this is now 'extreme'? The mind boggles. the.dark.

porcelaine -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 12:08:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 and... just because I think this is FINALLY going somewhere other than a train wreck, I'd like to point out that a desire to move further and further towards the TPE end need not include cruelty. That may be a part of the motivation for porcelaine. It is not for Carol and I. There are lots and lots of reasons why someone might choose to do this... probably as many reasons as there are people. I still maintain that Carol's and my reasons, while not being any "purer" in any way than any other reasons, are certainly more understandable to the average person. As I like to joke when I'm talking to a vanilla friend... i don't typically speak about this aspect in public, but i'll address it since you highlighted my comment. the cruelty i'm referencing is displayed in many ways. it isn't necessarily the Master behaving in a manner that is mean or oblivious to my well being. what it says is that i want Him to succumb to His need to be cruel if it exists and to be willing to apply it as He deems fitting. if i were to take the easier route, i'd choose someone softer. but in the long run it wouldn't satisfy me. the edges and firmness that could be upsetting to others deepens my feeling of submission. in a weird way His iron is sharpening mine. remember, i am not subservient by nature nor did i come to this path as a submissive. my natural countenance is dominant and i am accustomed to being in control. i like it actually, except in my relationships. i appreciate the tight controls and a very snug yoke that exchanges of this nature will bring. i don't want a lot of latitude. i enjoy being forced to thrive under the constraints. i need the challenge. it drives me. the shedding process doesn't frighten me at all. i've been doing this on my own for quite some time. this is merely the next step in my evolution, where servitude provides a higher vehicle for betterment. it is not enough for me to be a slave, i must be internally enslaved instead. for me that is the culmination of the road i am traveling. i view the process as a journey towards actualization and see the Master as the catalyst for change. He directs and reshapes and i'm His willing subject. it is clear this would require a great depth of trust and servitude. i accept there will be mistakes and hardships to endure. but my desire to be enslaved significantly outweighs them all. my slavery is not one dimensional nor limited to bedroom antics or the kneel. it is an outgrowth of a seed that was planted many years ago in a little girl's head. i must give. it is who i am. this is merely the way i have chosen to do so. i was born for it in more ways than i have ever admitted. porcelaine

porcelaine -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 12:21:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark I am really disappointed when I see statements on the percieved domliest/slaveist. Like you say, people are normal. I never see this so called top dog fight - yet I repeatedly see people blasted for doing so. Just because someone doesn't limit themselves - this is now 'extreme'? The mind boggles. you echoed my sentiments perfectly. i don't assume relationships that may include or disallow limits are examples of such, but merely differences in approach that people are sharing. quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I appreciate diversity and enjoy the perspectives of other. I don't need to judge one as better than the other, but just as one that suits my tastes or needs better than another. In so doing, no one is condemned and no one is elevated. i have mentored people that go on to enter the lifestyle or other power dynamics. i also converse with a group of women on a regular basis that are not involved in bdsm in totality. some are, others aren't, a few are just starting. if i held the belief that one path was superior to the other, the service i provide would be woefully lacking. what is important is that the dynamic chosen is a reflection of the parties involved and what is suitable for them. ideas of extremism or even fluff don't come to mind. i accept it is simply another way of engaging instead. porcelaine

NuevaVida -> RE: Can't vs Won't (10/21/2009 10:08:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Just like the dosing of a medication, some will need more and others will need far less. It doesn't mean it is not the same medicine with similar effects, just that the threshold to experience those effects is greater or lesser. It is no flaw in the person, the drug, or the method. Wow I really liked this analogy!

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