You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (Full Version)

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puella -> You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/23/2009 9:04:28 AM)

I am wondering what people might think of this.... I think, generally speaking, politics has gotten waaaay too Maury Povitch for me, in general but I am still amazed at how low either side is willing to descend to land a blow, or what they might perceive as a blow. It always seems that when you cannot make or defend your point logically (and this whole segment was a bit scattered) you resort to a dirty trick to try to win on shock and awe (every pun intended).

Before I really go into my own ideas on the comment by Gaffney, I wonder what others think... and if you think his father would be ashamed?





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMOBQZwDMAE



mnottertail -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/23/2009 9:13:12 AM)

that is the sort of stuff that whacko fuck comes up with, he was a signatory to the original neo-con manifesto.....

vapid rabid ideology is what people die to see.

Circe de Soliel



xBullx -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/23/2009 9:37:09 AM)

That was funny...

Ridiculously, but all the same it was funny.

I don't believe that Big Ron would have allowed himself to partake in such juvenile theatrics.

This is the problem with the modern (or perhaps any) political process. It (they) becomes more engrossed in diversion, theatrics and semantics then product quality and trustworthy substance.




puella -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/23/2009 9:49:11 AM)

I am certainly not a Ronnie fan but ... there was just something so out of bounds, in my opinion about that statement.

Having lost a parent when I was younger, and having had someone hurl that particular blow my way in regards to some of my convictions and the way I live my life, I suppose I am a bit more tetchy about that sort of back stab of a move.

Ron Reagan was the same man he is now when his father was alive, and his father never denounced him, even at the heights of his political powers/head of a political ideal. His mother, to this day does not do so.

I think it says something about a person if they cannot understand that oneis proud of ones children( or one reason/ way oneis proud of them them) because of the fact that they have and are willing to understand and defend their beliefs, rather than whether or not those beliefs fit into their own comfort zone.



mnottertail -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/23/2009 9:53:36 AM)

well old asshat used to work in the Reagan administration, so you know he knows better, he is just insuring some noteriety for ratings.

Ron



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 1:20:11 AM)

A very low blow, and fighting words to be sure, but I've heard a lot worse offenses on TV.
The upside is, that most of us who had a good relationship with our parent(s), would know we were just being phucked with for a reaction.   

On the other hand, has anyone noticed that Chris Mathews is a lot less conservative than he used to be?   It was my impression, that he used to be a conservative commentator in years past...   Sorry, no links to explain my observation/comment on this.     M



HatesParisHilton -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 1:48:36 AM)

in a way I disagree.

I think in the context of the happenstance that Puela has referred to, yeah, fair cop.

But I think if someone knows someone's father, and that father was a hero of some sort or a shining bastion and they say to some shitbag who doesn't respect their Dad or respect what their Dad has done, or if the kid is basically some meth-head piece of shit or some i-pod addicted "I wanna be a youtube star" blowing their chances away when they have any form of legacy to pursue, I think it's fair to look at a lazy MTV Twittertwit and say "You are shit and your Father would be ashamed of you."

if, in politics, the Father in question (whether alive or dead) has any form of  "cachet" or "folk legend" attached to them at all, and that Fater has not been caught out in trysts with prostitutes or men's room casual sex shenannigans after claiming moral high ground, and their kid messes up?  this statement can be said to the kid, even publically.

to be fair to Bush, if  Laura had chosen to say that to her and Dubba's daughters publically on youtube, to keep the (then) First Family in line, she would have been entitled to do so.

Entertainment world?  Same thing. Look at Ozzie Osbourne and his pathetic snot-faced puff-pastry 5'8" toddler in crap-ass wannabe hipster glasses "son".  Who has done shit-all in any context.  Ozzy can say whatever the Hell he wants to about that kid, to that kid and so can anyone else who ever pulled their weight for the Osbourne Family.  I don't see why "Politician" Families should be any different.



Level -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 4:44:02 AM)

My pc connection is shit, so I haven't tried to watch the video.

I'm assuming someone slurred RR Jr? Or?

M, Chris Matthews does indeed have some conservative views, and some more liberal, as well.



pahunkboy -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 6:12:53 AM)

Reagan tho IS a legend.

For people my age- he represented the 80s...and coming of age- so in that regard he IS an era.

I watched the clip and -well- I dont pay for TV hook up- nor do I even bother to turn it on. 



UncleNasty -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 8:41:50 AM)

Hmm, I watched the segment. I didn't hear anything along the lines of the alleged comment. No doubt the result of watching and listening to two people that don't have even the most basic of effective communication skills. Trying to shout over each other is really more akin to adolescent playground tactics than anything else. Yet it is largely what political discourse, heck any discourse, has been reduced to. I rarely watch this kind of "infotainment" that passes for news.

If I had my own show I'd have rules of engagement, and I'd also have control of the microphones.

Uncle Nasty



AnimusRex -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 9:37:55 AM)

The funny thing is, Ronald Reagan has been co-opted, turned into a myth among the conservative movement.

The fact is, Reagan was much much more moderate and was more willing to compromise than anyone gives him credit for.
Examples:
As Governor of California, he signed the most liberal abortion law in the country;
As President, he never seriously cut government spending;
He embraced the underlying principles behind the New Deal;
He alternately confronted, then cooperated with the Communist regimes.

The modern conservative movement has enshrined him as a patron saint, but like all religions, the conservative movement ignores the truth and prints the legend.



Musicmystery -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 9:48:50 AM)

quote:

As President, he never seriously cut government spending;


In fact, quadrupled the national debt, bringing the U.S. from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation, with 25% of our assets changing into foreign hands in just 8 years.

Not to mention, he had little to do with the collapse of the U.S.S.R.--they spent themselves to death.

Then Cheney comes along and says "Ronald Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

So many have become power-hungry and just interested in their side winning that sense has long since left the building.

And news has long since become sensationalist entertainment, not even pretending to excellence anymore. The National Enquirer turns out to have had the best analysis of the American psyche.






TheHeretic -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 10:36:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In fact, quadrupled the national debt, bringing the U.S. from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation, with 25% of our assets changing into foreign hands in just 8 years.

Not to mention, he had little to do with the collapse of the U.S.S.R.--they spent themselves to death.




Jesus, Muse.  You just put those two statements right next to each other and try to insist the second occurred in a vacuum... wow.


As for the comment at the end of the video clip, my immediate reaction is that it was clearly over the line.  On the other hand, Ron Reagan has chosen to be a public figure based on his name.  It gives him a nice halo to take the edge off his mediocrity.  If all he has for credibility is his father's name, can we leave that immune to question?

In the context, it may have been a fair shot, delivered in a rude way.




Musicmystery -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 10:49:13 AM)

quote:

Jesus, Muse.  You just put those two statements right next to each other and try to insist the second occurred in a vacuum... wow.


Sorry I skipped the dissertation. I assumed there was no point in filling in the obvious history. Sure, we helped spend them out. But the place was structurally shaky, and their economy was headed for implosion with or without us.

Every statement here is read with the presumption of hyperbole. Gets tiring.

If you'd like to set the record straight, go for it. More facts, less attitude.




TheHeretic -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 11:08:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



Sorry I skipped the dissertation. I assumed there was no point in filling in the obvious history. Sure, we helped spend them out. But the place was structurally shaky, and their economy was headed for implosion with or without us.




Yes.  It's almost like Reagan saw a weakness in their system that could be exploited to bring it down without firing a shot.  [8|]

What fact is going is change a discussion of whether the guy jumping up and down on the lever had anything to do with the big rock finally tumbling down the cliff? 

Let's not hijack.



Musicmystery -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 11:23:16 AM)

quote:

What fact is going is change a discussion of whether the guy jumping up and down on the lever had anything to do with the big rock finally tumbling down the cliff? 

Let's not hijack.


A simple analysis of the Soviet economy.

But you're right about the hijack. Dropped.



AnimusRex -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 12:07:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

...Ron Reagan has chosen to be a public figure based on his name.  It gives him a nice halo to take the edge off his mediocrity.  If all he has for credibility is his father's name, can we leave that immune to question?



I wanna see a cage match between Ron Reagan and Liz Cheney



rulemylife -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/24/2009 6:40:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Hmm, I watched the segment. I didn't hear anything along the lines of the alleged comment.



He said it when he was off-camera, after they had cut back to Mathews.  The 28 second mark of the video.



Irishknight -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/25/2009 8:40:19 AM)

I think this was just a lame attempt to get a rise from someone... Attacks like this usually occur when someone knows he has failed to make his point in a discussion or debate. I didn't have any respect for the man before. Now he is in deficit with regard to respect.



UncleNasty -> RE: You're Father Would Be Ashamed of You.... Too Low of a Blow? (10/26/2009 6:15:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Hmm, I watched the segment. I didn't hear anything along the lines of the alleged comment.



He said it when he was off-camera, after they had cut back to Mathews.  The 28 second mark of the video.



I didn't mean to dispute whether it was said, or not, or to impugn the integrity of the OP, rather to point out the difficulty in discerning with any specificity what actually was said by either or any party. Shouting matches (or toe to toe "mother fucker contests") are like that.

Uncle Nasty



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