RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year

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tazzygirl -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 2:15:14 PM)
You didnt add in the patients who cannot afford to be compliant. Meds, insulin and oral, both costs money. Dr visits and blood tests, again, more money. No insurance and Drs no longer want to see you. Diabetes doesnt care if you have insurance. My anaolgy with High Blood Pressure is pertinent to diabetes as well. The costs of Dr visits and blood tests, meds, ect, still wont add up to the costs of dialysis (over $1000 a treatment, 3 times a week). 2 weeks of dialysis pays for the visits and blood tests alone. yes, there will always be patients who dont follow orders, who dont take their meds right, who dont follow dietary restrictions, ect. But its not 100%, its not even 50%.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 2:34:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen Health insurance companies work the same way. Just after that surgery where there will be scar tissue build up and any agitation will only inflame the issue, the insurance company will not cover a specific treatment to reduce scar tissue that only costs $100/month for the next two years. Rather, the insurance company would pay for a secondary surgery to remove the scar tissue 4 years down the line which will cost more than $30,000 to perform. The reason is because they think they are saving potential dollars and increasing their potential profit margin by not paying out preventative measures. It's not about the insured's well being, it's about the gamble in which someone's health is at risk as opposed to someone else's paycheck. This makes no sense. To maintain that a business would save $2400 today knowing that doing so will cost $30,000 4 years from now is ludicrous. There also seems to be a notion here that no insurance coverages include coverage for any preventative measures which is totally false.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 2:38:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen It's not about the insured's well being, it's about the gamble.... And therein lies the major flaw in the whole scheme. But unfortunately, a government-run program is going to have the same shortcomings. Whether it's profit motive calculations or cost-benefit analyses, the end result in the same. Nothing is going to change until we accept the fact that you can't put a dollar value on health and well-being, and that providing the best possible health-care for our citizens is first and foremost a matter of ethics, not economics. K. But that isnt a fact, thats an (incorrect) opinion. The fact is that ultimately this is an economic debate and eventually there must be a dollar value put on health, well-being, death etc. The issue is whether incurring whatever dollar value IS put on health, is a societal responsibility, an indiviudal responsibility or shared responsbility, and if shared to what extent.

Louve00 -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 3:42:24 PM)
You're right, I didn't. Even more fuel. Actually (and this is a horrible thought, but true), I was thinking about this and thought....what would have happened to my sister when she (at age 38) landed herself in the hospital in a diabetic coma...finding out then, for the first time, she was diabetic. To entertain the thought of it, without her having insurance...she probably would have gotten past that initial coma and diagnosis. She would have been severely in debt to the hospital and dr's and so on, but her life probably wouldn't have lasted much longer after that. She lived to the age of 54. From age 38 to 54 she lost a leg, went blind, went on dialysis, and had numerous strokes. She probably racked up phenomenal charges in her lifetime, for diabetes related problems alone. Without insurance, she would probably have had less in medical expenses, but she wouldn't have made it to 54. So, thinking of it that way, she would have been one of the statistics of people dying without health insurance. Yet to think of the expense, well....I hate to say what I'm really thinking here.

Slavehandsome -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 3:45:09 PM)
Do we have the figures in on what the military wastes every year? How about the FBI? Fatherland Security, TSA, the CIA, or your local police? Perhaps someone could suggest an overhaul of those systems as well, while we're at it?

tazzygirl -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 4:29:31 PM)
well.. gess... anyone else remember the christmas tree with the 700 dollar toilet seat?

servantforuse -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 8:20:41 PM)
yea, lets get rid of the FBI. Then we will have all the money we need for national health care. Good grief ..

tazzygirl -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 8:26:24 PM)
LOL... lose your reply function?

rulemylife -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 10:55:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity No tazzy, the point isn't "blame" the point is that we need to address the waste and fraud and other abuses in the system prior to expanding it. Isn't that an amazing concept. Now we need to put a hold on health care reform to address the abuses of health care before we can consider reform. re⋅form the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory (Dictionary.com Unabridged Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.)

rulemylife -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 11:08:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata And therein lies the major flaw in the whole scheme. But unfortunately, a government-run program is going to have the same shortcomings. Whether it's profit motive calculations or cost-benefit analyses, the end result in the same. Nothing is going to change until we accept the fact that you can't put a dollar value on health and well-being, and that providing the best possible health-care for our citizens is first and foremost a matter of ethics, not economics. K. But that isnt a fact, thats an (incorrect) opinion. The fact is that ultimately this is an economic debate and eventually there must be a dollar value put on health, well-being, death etc. The issue is whether incurring whatever dollar value IS put on health, is a societal responsibility, an indiviudal responsibility or shared responsbility, and if shared to what extent. Really Willbeur, is that what it's about? Have we come to a point in this society where a person's life is measured in terms of monetary value?

rulemylife -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/27/2009 11:19:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife * Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year. This one is a bit scary. I'll go with the overuse of antibiotics, but not the rest of it. Tests "to protect against malpractice" suggests to me that if they didn't check these things out before sending a patient home, they'd be negligent if something happened. That's not my idea of "waste". K. I'm all for doctors being thorough, but my personal view is that doctors have become needlessly fearful of malpractice suits and are ordering excessive testing strictly in a "cover your own ass" mentality. Which is pretty much what you said, but I don't see how you relate that to not being wasteful.

thishereboi -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/28/2009 6:38:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen I'm going to check the moon charts cuz I agree with Kirata on this. boi Yea he makes sense a whole lot of the time. In fact I am looking to see if his fan club has a chapter in the Detroit area, if not I may have to start one.

BoiJen -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (10/28/2009 6:50:52 AM)
Pro-active support is a great thing when used for the powers of good. :-) Woof!

Esinn -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (11/13/2009 10:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Anyone want to tell me again how we can't afford a health reform bill that the Congressional Budget Office estimates would cost $829 billion over a ten-year period? Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. healthcare system is just as wasteful as President Barack Obama says it is, and proposed reforms could be paid for by fixing some of the most obvious inefficiencies, preventing mistakes and fighting fraud, according to a Thomson Reuters report released on Monday. The U.S. healthcare system wastes between $505 billion and $850 billion every year, the report from Robert Kelley, vice president of healthcare analytics at Thomson Reuters, found. .......One example -- a paper-based system that discourages sharing of medical records accounts for 6 percent of annual overspending. "It is waste when caregivers duplicate tests because results recorded in a patient's record with one provider are not available to another or when medical staff provides inappropriate treatment because relevant history of previous treatment cannot be accessed," the report reads. Some other findings in the report from Thomson Reuters, the parent company of Reuters: * Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year. * Fraud makes up 22 percent of healthcare waste, or up to $200 billion a year in fraudulent Medicare claims, kickbacks for referrals for unnecessary services and other scams. * Administrative inefficiency and redundant paperwork account for 18 percent of healthcare waste. * Medical mistakes account for $50 billion to $100 billion in unnecessary spending each year, or 11 percent of the total. * Preventable conditions such as uncontrolled diabetes cost $30 billion to $50 billion a year. It is simple... We stop an illegal multi-trillion dollar war. 800 billion is what $100-1,000 per year per person? If there was a 1-4% chance you paying an additional 1-3 dollars a day might help 1-20 people you would not take that chance? The fact is the current system is absolutely broken. Bless your pretty heart it still works for you, I am happy. However, someone is dying now, someone is going into bankruptcy, someone is in pain, someone is watching a child die and another might be losing a home because of this current broken system. Yes, yes.... I know, I know they are all probably Mexican. But statistically speaking at least 10 of them are probably sexy single white mothers who give awesome blow jobs. Even if you think the Mexicans are not worth saving(they might not be who knows) surely a blow job from a single mom is. I assure you there are more than 10. I am not saying it is you. But any prick who will not openly and happily give $1-3 a day to better the lives of 10 white people is not worthy to share the air I breathe(Obviously just a morbid analogy) (Also note some sarcasm But I have heard numerous people INRL(in real life) say on more occasion it is only non-whites who are uninsured). This clearly implies they do not care about non-white people. I can also dig up some youtube videos. The fact remains even if 99% of uninsured people are non-white. Even if 99.9% of uninsured people abuse the right Obama wishes to bestow upon us there will still be .1 - 1% of healthy, moral and kind white people this bill will save.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (11/13/2009 10:21:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Anyone want to tell me again how we can't afford a health reform bill that the Congressional Budget Office estimates would cost $829 billion over a ten-year period? Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. healthcare system is just as wasteful as President Barack Obama says it is, and proposed reforms could be paid for by fixing some of the most obvious inefficiencies, preventing mistakes and fighting fraud, according to a Thomson Reuters report released on Monday. The U.S. healthcare system wastes between $505 billion and $850 billion every year, the report from Robert Kelley, vice president of healthcare analytics at Thomson Reuters, found. .......One example -- a paper-based system that discourages sharing of medical records accounts for 6 percent of annual overspending. "It is waste when caregivers duplicate tests because results recorded in a patient's record with one provider are not available to another or when medical staff provides inappropriate treatment because relevant history of previous treatment cannot be accessed," the report reads. Some other findings in the report from Thomson Reuters, the parent company of Reuters: * Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year. * Fraud makes up 22 percent of healthcare waste, or up to $200 billion a year in fraudulent Medicare claims, kickbacks for referrals for unnecessary services and other scams. * Administrative inefficiency and redundant paperwork account for 18 percent of healthcare waste. * Medical mistakes account for $50 billion to $100 billion in unnecessary spending each year, or 11 percent of the total. * Preventable conditions such as uncontrolled diabetes cost $30 billion to $50 billion a year. It is simple... We stop an illegal multi-trillion dollar war. 800 billion is what $100-1,000 per year per person? If there was a 1-4% chance you paying an additional 1-3 dollars a day might help 1-20 people you would not take that chance? The fact is the current system is absolutely broken. Bless your pretty heart it still works for you, I am happy. However, someone is dying now, someone is going into bankruptcy, someone is in pain, someone is watching a child die and another might be losing a home because of this current broken system. Yes, yes.... I know, I know they are all probably Mexican. But statistically speaking at least 10 of them are probably sexy single white mothers who give awesome blow jobs. Even if you think the Mexicans are not worth saving(they might not be who knows) surely a blow job from a single mom is. I assure you there are more than 10. I am not saying it is you. But any prick who will not openly and happily give $1-3 a day to better the lives of 10 white people is not worthy to share the air I breathe(Obviously just a morbid analogy) (Also note some sarcasm But I have heard numerous people INRL(in real life) say on more occasion it is only non-whites who are uninsured). This clearly implies they do not care about non-white people. I can also dig up some youtube videos. The fact remains even if 99% of uninsured people are non-white. Even if 99.9% of uninsured people abuse the right Obama wishes to bestow upon us there will still be .1 - 1% of healthy, moral and kind white people this bill will save. If its that easy, save the money first and prove it. The government has NEVER eliminated cost inefficiencies in any major program. What makes you think they can start now?

rulemylife -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (11/14/2009 7:03:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn It is simple... We stop an illegal multi-trillion dollar war. 800 billion is what $100-1,000 per year per person? If there was a 1-4% chance you paying an additional 1-3 dollars a day might help 1-20 people you would not take that chance? The fact is the current system is absolutely broken. Bless your pretty heart it still works for you, I am happy. Why are telling me these things as if I'm in disagreement with you? You re-posted my original so you must have read it. I've said many times on here that the cost of the Iraq War has been far greater in six years than the projected cost of the health plan will be over ten.

Raiikun -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (11/14/2009 8:10:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Isn't that an amazing concept. Now we need to put a hold on health care reform to address the abuses of health care before we can consider reform. Except I don't think he has stated in this thread that it needs fixed before reforming it...just that reform to fix the waste needs done before expanding it. Which of course, is your right to disagree with, and I don't entirely agree with him (though I'd feel more trusting of expansions if I knew the government could be trusted to...well that's a post for another time). But if you're gonna disagree with him, at least disagree with what he's actually saying. =)

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year (11/14/2009 8:19:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun But if you're gonna disagree with him, at least disagree with what he's actually saying. =) We'll see succesful health care reform before we see that reform.

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