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RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/1/2009 11:33:24 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		She stated in the article that she wanted drama in her life, sounds like she got it. I'd say she is mentally ill and needs some intensive therapy rather than a "master".

~Lashra

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(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/1/2009 2:07:27 PM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Nihilus

I am very sorry that you find my post sarcastic and devoid of substance, but then, why don't you just ignore it?

I stand corrected, she was 16 not 15, indeed a great difference, a world apart, so to say, and he waited one year to escape prison, what a gentleman! Too bad Polansky did not how the same high-mindedness. We would not spend good money on him right now.

However, I learnt at school that reproduction, at least among mammals --a class to which I proudly belong--, was sexed, the male has to do something to get the female pregnant. Our teacher was rather short on practical details, but I would imagine that a 50 year old man, married four times would know about the birds and the bees and may firstly inform the young girl -- or adult woman if you prefer -- about the pill and all that kind of things. Maybe he was a Republican and did not believe in all this liberal stuff regarding family planning, but somehow I doubt it.

Also, there are ways for the man to avoid impregnating a woman. But maybe it stand against his ethics as a "master".

In any case, I tend to think that in a relationship responsibility is a joint operation and when one is not up to it, the other has to cover for both. It has nothing to do with BDSM, and if this relation was indeed a M/s one, it is not one where I would try to defend the behavior of the "master".

Be seeing you!

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(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/1/2009 7:06:52 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

She stated in the article that she wanted drama in her life, sounds like she got it. I'd say she is mentally ill and needs some intensive therapy rather than a "master".

~Lashra

Absolutely agreed. And, as I wrote waaaaayyyy back there, how was this man a "master?" She threw that word in but I didn't read anything that indicated there was ever such a dynamic. Maybe it helped assuage any shred of guilt she felt about recklessly getting impregnated 15 different times and then just aborting as an afterthought? Perhaps but who knows. This chick sounds perfectly in control of her choices and she chose drama..............luci

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RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/1/2009 10:54:57 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
I also have to remind myself that I am not a woman and I have no right to condemn her right as a woman to have control over her body. 


The right to control your own body goes beyond having  an abortion every time you get pregnant. She had the right to take birth control, she had the right to use condoms. I have and will always support a woman's right to choose but please do not turn this  obsessive, self-mutilating woman into a poster child for reproductive rights.

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/1/2009 11:01:58 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
I also have to remind myself that I am not a woman and I have no right to condemn her right as a woman to have control over her body. 

Yeah, I don't "condemn her right as a woman to have control over her body." If I "condemn" anything, it's blaming what she did on a "master" who didn't appear to be that at all. She chose to do what she did and I feel she should take responsibility for that, for better or worse. No one - "master" or no - made her have 15 abortions. That's her choice...........luci


Please....I was not intending to say you or anyone else was condemning the woman in the article! Just simply stated that as a male...I have no right indicating any woman should or shouldn't be allowed to do (x) with her body.




my mistake I didn't read ahead before quoting you. You may not, as a man, a have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. However, as a human being, you do have the right to see these 15 abortions as the act of a sick person. It has nothing to do with exercising her right to choose and everything to do with mental illness and self destruction.

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/1/2009 11:12:02 PM >

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 3:24:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

She stated in the article that she wanted drama in her life, sounds like she got it. I'd say she is mentally ill and needs some intensive therapy rather than a "master".

~Lashra

Absolutely agreed. And, as I wrote waaaaayyyy back there, how was this man a "master?" She threw that word in but I didn't read anything that indicated there was ever such a dynamic. Maybe it helped assuage any shred of guilt she felt about recklessly getting impregnated 15 different times and then just aborting as an afterthought? Perhaps but who knows. This chick sounds perfectly in control of her choices and she chose drama..............luci


The term "Master"... lol... gotta tell ya... the whole thing smacks of a way to increase book sales.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 6:25:11 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Ding-ding-ding!

We got a winner!! Why? Well, it's gonna make some money . . .. .

(Not why all those abortions, there are women out there who have far more abortions than I'm comfortable with, I'd love to see fewer abortions . . . . )

But, why the book? Yeah, moolah, cash, money-honey . . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The term "Master"... lol... gotta tell ya... the whole thing smacks of a way to increase book sales.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 6:27:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Adding "Master" and hints of the lifestyle as an excuse.... should be a best seller.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 7:12:44 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

15?

Seems like she can not manage her life.




Don't think there is any seems about it

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(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 7:44:30 PM   
Nemesys


Posts: 148
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

FR, after read thru

As a feminist & an abortion-rights supporter (part of an avid belief in contraception), the story had me cringing. She's not doin' either of those any favors . .. ..



Greetings DemonKia,

The early hard-core feminists (Anthony, Stanton, Norton, etc.) considered abortion to be wrong and degrading... not for any particularly moral or religious reasons, but simply because it allowed and encouraged men to behave abusively and irresponsibly to women without consequence to themselves. From what I've read of them, they'd be fine with contraception.

It's interesting where we've landed on the issue today. This story gives a point back to Susan B.

"All the articles on this subject (abortion) that I have read have been from men. They denounce women as alone guilty, and never include man in any plans for the remedy." Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution, 4(1):4 July 8, 1869


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(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 7:52:02 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		& then along came Margaret Sanger ... . & other waves of later feminism . . . .

That generation of feminists were also strongly pro-Christian & anti-alcohol, but I'm no more obligated to emulate that as any other thing . . . . . . If that's where that's going . .. . . . I'm a progressive who chooses to eagerly move into the future rather than seeking out some golden past . . . . . .

&, frankly, when it comes to those eras & their fem heroes I'm way more of an Emma Goldman kinda gal . . . .



quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemesys

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

FR, after read thru

As a feminist & an abortion-rights supporter (part of an avid belief in contraception), the story had me cringing. She's not doin' either of those any favors . .. ..



Greetings DemonKia,

The early hard-core feminists (Anthony, Stanton, Norton, etc.) considered abortion to be wrong and degrading... not for any particularly moral or religious reasons, but simply because it allowed and encouraged men to behave abusively and irresponsibly to women without consequence to themselves. From what I've read of them, they'd be fine with contraception.

It's interesting where we've landed on the issue today. This story gives a point back to Susan B.

"All the articles on this subject (abortion) that I have read have been from men. They denounce women as alone guilty, and never include man in any plans for the remedy." Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution, 4(1):4 July 8, 1869



(in reply to Nemesys)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 8:08:14 PM   
Nemesys


Posts: 148
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
From what I can tell from the polls and talking with college kids, the future is going to find its own new way, with new paths towards civil rights that put both Stanton, Sanger, and Friedan far on the back burner. The sixties were 50 years ago, after all. This next generation has the real new progressive ideas... it'll be very interesting to watch if what comes around, goes around.

I wish you well, N



quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

& then along came Margaret Sanger ... . & other waves of later feminism . . . .

That generation of feminists were also strongly pro-Christian & anti-alcohol, but I'm no more obligated to emulate that as any other thing . . . . . . If that's where that's going . .. . . . I'm a progressive who chooses to eagerly move into the future rather than seeking out some golden past . . . . . .

&, frankly, when it comes to those eras & their fem heroes I'm way more of an Emma Goldman kinda gal . . . .



quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemesys

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

FR, after read thru

As a feminist & an abortion-rights supporter (part of an avid belief in contraception), the story had me cringing. She's not doin' either of those any favors . .. ..



Greetings DemonKia,

The early hard-core feminists (Anthony, Stanton, Norton, etc.) considered abortion to be wrong and degrading... not for any particularly moral or religious reasons, but simply because it allowed and encouraged men to behave abusively and irresponsibly to women without consequence to themselves. From what I've read of them, they'd be fine with contraception.

It's interesting where we've landed on the issue today. This story gives a point back to Susan B.

"All the articles on this subject (abortion) that I have read have been from men. They denounce women as alone guilty, and never include man in any plans for the remedy." Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution, 4(1):4 July 8, 1869





_____________________________

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http://goreanunity.org

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/2/2009 9:32:39 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Yeah, I've got 3 offspring in their early 20's, & a nephew & nieces younger than that, & generational change continues unabated, as far as I can see. Unlike those who see the young people as going to hell in a handbasket I tend to see a 'gettin' better all the time' vibe goin' on . . . . .



One of these generations has to get our asses out into the solar system & the stars beyond, tho' that's a whole 'nother thread . . . . .



quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemesys

From what I can tell from the polls and talking with college kids, the future is going to find its own new way, with new paths towards civil rights that put both Stanton, Sanger, and Friedan far on the back burner. The sixties were 50 years ago, after all. This next generation has the real new progressive ideas... it'll be very interesting to watch if what comes around, goes around.

I wish you well, N

(in reply to Nemesys)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/3/2009 12:11:49 AM   
willowspirit


Posts: 164
Joined: 6/20/2005
From: U.S.A.-Minnesota
Status: offline 		Thank you for the link to the whole article.

Maybe it's some variation of Münchausen syndrome ???

She sought drama/attention, yet like the trappings of things that made her feel cared for -- and yet controlled and helpless. Yeah, exam tables and those stirrups can make you feel pretty helpless -- and yet you are the focus of intense attention.

[Münchausen syndrome is a term for psychiatric disorders known as Factitious disorders wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma in order to draw attention or sympathy to themselves. It's also sometimes known as "hospital addiction syndrome" or "hospital hopper" syndrome.]

I'm disturbed that this comes back at us, U/us, Us and us (whatever) -- and people use accounts like this one to make others in society believe W/we are all mentally ill.

(in reply to VirginPotty)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/3/2009 1:31:35 AM   
TwistedHeart74


Posts: 722
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I read the whole article and wow...just...wow.
Does anyone else see the blatent emotional manipulation she uses? This is either one seriously disturbed woman or one hell of a manipulater.

I'm complicated when it comes to abortion. I think they should remain legal, but should only be used in extreme circumstances, i.e. rape, molestation. Using it as a form of birthcontrol quite frankly makes me sick to my stomach. No matter how you try to justify it, abortion is murder. Argue it all you like, but life begins at conception, dead cells can't multiply, therefore an infant is just as alive at 2 weeks as it is at 8 months. It is utter bullshit to think in this day and age that anyone above the age of 10 wouldn't have at least a fundamental idea of how to prevent pregnancy.

And again I throw the bullshit flag when she says "In a pathology you don't have a choice" Eh, WRONG. You can choose to stay in your addiction, or you can choose to get help. She states that when she was having these abortions that she ignored the pleas of doctors and friends. I've dealt with addicts in the past, worked closely with them. They CHOSE to stay addicted until they finally had enough, enough destroying their lives and enough of destroying the lives of their loved ones. It sounds to me as if she is blaming her culture as well, for it's "mixed messages". Give me a big ole break here.
She doesn't dwell on the babies she killed? How is that even humanly possible? I have a friend who had an abortion years ago and she STILL has nightmares about it.

"In her bathroom, Vilar keeps childhood photos of Loretta alongside ultrasound pictures of her 18 weeks before she was born. "The ultrasound images show clearly a miniature head tilted back, an arm raised up, with the hand pointing back toward the face," Vilar writes. "It would have been possible and permissible to end her life at this point." Anybody else find this just disturbing?

The thing is, she is STILL addicted to drama, she is STILL craving the high that comes with addiction. She makes sure to mention she's had herself removed from as many public records as possible, she is sure to mention where she lives. I'm sure book sales will ROCKET from the attention this article has been given.

I think she is a seriously disturbed woman who needs the kind of help you can get in the nicely padded room in the hospital. And I can promise you this much, no child of mine would read her book. There's no way in HELL I'd consider her a positive role model, or able to empower young women. What has she suffered for her actions? It doesn't look like much.

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(in reply to willowspirit)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/6/2009 6:09:06 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Fast Reply-

This woman has serious mental health problems and is obviously addicted to drama and being the center of attention.  Why else would she write a book about being so out of control and irresponsible?

(edited to change a word)


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RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/6/2009 9:03:24 PM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		I live in a soceity where we had abortion on demand for over 40 years. It functions actually well here. The prolifers? well i haven't heard them for ages. Anyway this story i am sure rather belongs in the psychiatric care system. The woman is obviously completely out of balance. I have in my life meet quite a few women who have had abortions, both provoked and spontaneus. All of them agrees that it is not something which is "fun", but rather something which gives emotional scars for life. We are pretty open about speaking on these things in Denmark. But at least she has one use. As an advertising poster for birth controlpills. Abortion as such is here considered as the woman choice. In that way i can not see blame be put on the mans shoulders in this.
Also when Madonna goes cradlesnatching, she is considered a "cougar" or strong woman. When a man does the same, he is a dirty old man. That is double standards in a big way.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/6/2009 11:58:15 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah...i don't understand why 1 or 2 is ok, but 15 ....

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 15 abortions for "Master" - 11/7/2009 5:14:40 AM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Yeah...i don't understand why 1 or 2 is ok, but 15 ....


Its not the number, its her intention. She knew she didn't want a baby, yet she took no steps to prevent her pregnancy becasue she WANTED to get an abortion.

I believe that abortion should be available for "emergency" situations, not used as a form of contraception. No healthy woman *wants* to have an abortion. However some women in some situations feel they are necessary. I am sure that most women find it to be an extremely difficult decision.One that they consider carefully and that most likely affects them deeply. This woman treated the act of getting an abortion like it was a mani-pedi or a hair appointment. Something to do on a regular basis, on a whim. I think that is insulting to the reproductive rights movement. And to every woman who has ever had to terminate a pregnancy

I believe that the rigth to chose begins BEFORE the cock goes in, not just after. I have been sexually active for 15 years (I'm 30). I have never had an abortion or been pregnant. I CHOSE not to have a baby. I consider myself a responsible adult. However, if for some reason one of my birth control methods failed at some point over that time period, I might have had an abortion. I can't really say because I have never been in the situation.  One thing is for sure: I would think long and hard about it. And I certainly would never get pregnant with the INTENTION to abort it.

As I said, it isn't the sheer nuber of abortions this woman had. It was her intention. It was the carelessness and flipincy with which she treated the act of terminating her pregnany. In my oppinion 1 or 2 DELIBRATE pregnancies for the PURPOSE of later getting an abortion would also point to some kind of mental illness and a need for therapy. However when we get into the range of  15 it points to a severe mental health problem and an obsession with self-harm.

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Profile   Post #: 59
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