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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 1:58:33 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What exactly is the definition of "bias" that we are working from?

I see the bias as how the beliefs of the journalist/s color the reporting.   You now seem to be setting the bar as the media pushing a particular political agenda.

Doesn't pointing out "liberal bias" already make it clear you're talking about pushing a particular political agenda?

And if you see this bias at work, point it out already. We're on page ten here. True story/biased story.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If your assumption is true, the link you provided should establish that most coverage is in the center. Why doesn't it? It's where the majority of journalists identified.



Are we talking about the same link, Tim? The polls clearly showed that people in the media are split towards the left at far higher percentages that the general population.

I've already addressed this. After finding the majority of journalists identified as center, the study ignores that center and focuses on the minority identifying as liberals or conservatives. Comparing that to nonjournalists identifying as liberals or conservatives is irrelevant to the issue of whether the coverage has a liberal bias.

The study also looks at no coverage whatsoever, simply assuming journalists ignore journalism basics and report their biases, with no attempt at establishing that jump. And even if it did and found that, it still wouldn't establish a liberal bias overall, just in at the margin, as they've ignored the majority identifying as center.

Not even to mention there's a world of difference between a poll and a methodical study.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/7/2009 2:04:26 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 3:55:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Doesn't pointing out "liberal bias" already make it clear you're talking about pushing a particular political agenda?

And if you see this bias at work, point it out already. We're on page ten here. True story/biased story.




No, Tim.  It isn't about pushing a particular political agenda.  It can certainly manifest that way in campaign coverage, but that isn't the heart of it.  The bias is in how the issues are presented, and it is a reflection of the underlying beliefs of the people bringing us the news product. 

I do enjoy a good discussion with you, Tim, and that we have different ways of presenting ourselves adds to that, but you keep asking for examples, and then dismissing what I put up.  

I see evidence of a liberal/conservative paradigm difference in the links to the unemployment stories.  The Times went to the AFL-CIO for their analysis, bringing into the discussion more government spending on big-ticket projects, while Fox put their focus on private enterprise.  That's the worldview showing; the bias.  One talks to the employees about creating jobs, the other goes towards the employers.  Are you thinking I should google up a headline from them that "Dear Leader saves thousands of jobs!" and Fox pointing out that it was accomplished by spending $165,000 per $39,000 earned?  (those are made up numbers for illustrative purpose).  Ain't gonna happen.


True story/bias story???  You are creating a false conflict here, Tim.  Look at my unemployment links.  Both stories are biased, both are true.

Want to clarify those terms?

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 4:53:48 PM   
Musicmystery


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Here's the thing, Rich--

You claim the bias is there, but can't demonstrate it. You post "examples" that don't point to the bias. I've noted along this journey that in fact, the coverage is damn balanced, and yes, you just brush it aside.

So now you pull up one story, point to an interview with a labor leader--in a story about unemployment--and claim that's bias? Here's the entire story--I'm seeing multiple sources, not a single interview:

Broader Measure of U.S. Unemployment Stands at 17.5%
By DAVID LEONHARDT
Published: November 6, 2009
For all the pain caused by the Great Recession, the job market still was not in as bad shape as it had been during the depths of the early 1980s recession — until now.

With the release of the jobs report on Friday, the broadest measure of unemployment and underemployment tracked by the Labor Department has reached its highest level in decades. If statistics went back so far, the measure would almost certainly be at its highest level since the Great Depression.

In all, more than one out of every six workers — 17.5 percent — were unemployed or underemployed in October. The previous recorded high was 17.1 percent, in December 1982.

This includes the officially unemployed, who have looked for work in the last four weeks. It also includes discouraged workers, who have looked in the past year, as well as millions of part-time workers who want to be working full time.

The official jobless rate — 10.2 percent in October, up from 9.8 percent in September — remains lower than the early 1980s peak of 10.8 percent.

The broader rate is highest today, sometimes 20 percent, in states that had big housing bubbles, like California and Arizona, or that have large manufacturing sectors, like Michigan, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island and South Carolina.

The new benchmark is a sign of just how much damage financial crises tend to inflict. A recent book by Carmen M. Reinhart and Kenneth S. Rogoff, two economists, found that over the last century the typical crisis had caused the jobless rate in the country where it occurred to rise for almost five years. By that standard, the jobless rate here would continue rising for two more years, through the end of 2011.

Most economists predict that the rate will in fact begin to fall next year, largely because of the federal government’s aggressive response — fiscal stimulus, interest-rate cuts and a variety of creative steps by the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department. Friday’s report showed that monthly job losses continued to slow recently, though the improvement has been gradual.

At the White House Friday, President Obama signed a bill to extend unemployment benefits and a tax credit for home buyers, and said that he was looking at ways to enact more stimulus. On Wednesday, the Fed announced that it expected to leave its benchmark interest at zero for “an extended period.”

Nearly 16 million people are now unemployed and more than seven million jobs have been lost since late 2007.

Officially, the Labor Department’s broad measure of unemployment goes back only to 1994. But early this year, with the help of economists at the department, The New York Times created a version that estimates it going back to 1970. If such a measure were available for the Depression, it probably would have exceeded 30 percent.

Compared with the early 1980s, a smaller share of workers today are officially unemployed and a smaller share are considered discouraged workers.

But there are many more people who would like to be working full time and have been able to find only part-time work, according to the government’s monthly survey of workers. The rapid increase in their ranks and in the officially unemployed has caused the rate to rise much faster in this recession than in the early 1980s. Two years ago, it was only 8.2 percent.

One of the more striking aspects of the Great Recession is that most of its impact has fallen on a relatively narrow group of workers. This is evident primarily in two ways.

First, the number of people who have experienced any unemployment is surprisingly low, given the severity of the recession. The pace of layoffs has increased, but the peak layoff rate this year was the same as it was during the 2001 recession, which was a fairly mild downturn. The main reason that the unemployment rate has soared is the hiring rate has plummeted.

So fewer workers than might be expected have lost their jobs. But those without work are paying a steep price, because finding a new job is extremely difficult.

Second, wages have continued to rise for most people who still have jobs. The average hourly wage for rank-and-file workers, who make up about four-fifths of the work force, actually accelerated in October, according to the new report.

Even though some companies have cut the pay of workers, the average hourly wage has still risen 1.5 to 2.5 percent over the last year, depending on which government survey is examined. Average weekly pay has risen less — zero to 1 percent — because hours have been cut. But average prices have fallen. Altogether, the typical worker has received a 1 to 2 percent inflation-adjusted raise over the last year.

In the other two severe recessions in recent decades, workers with jobs fared considerably worse. At the same point in the mid-1970s downturn, real weekly pay had fallen 7 percent; in the early 1980s recession, it had fallen 4 percent.

It is a strange combination: workers who still have a job are doing better than in other deep recessions, but the unemployment and underemployment have risen to their highest level since the Depression.


THAT'S liberal bias? Economists? Labor Dept? Loads of data?

And you have nothing but ridicule again...google Dear Leader indeed.

Look, if you insist on refusing to belief that a biased story can be put next an unbiased one, then the bias is entire in your own perception--after all, that's what you keep coming back with, that you can see it--it's just unreasonable to ask you to point it out.

If you're going to view the world through liberal-colored glasses, then you're going to see liberals everywhere you look. Have you looked online about that? I hear you can sprinkle Conservative urine around the perimeter to repel them.

If it's a false premise, as you keep repeating, then construct a cogent argument why. So far, it's a clear vision that only you can see, clothes invisible to all but the Emperor.

This just goes in circles. The Emperor has nothing on.

Now, although you completely ignore the above HEADLINE STORY--here's the one you chose:

U.S. Unemployment Rate Hits 10.2%, Highest in 26 Years
By PETER S. GOODMAN
Javier C. Hernandez contributed reporting.
Published: November 6, 2009

As the unemployment rate surged to 10.2 percent in October, reaching double digits for the first time in 26 years, it suddenly seemed possible that the nation might yet confront the worst joblessness since the Great Depression.

In the six decades since the government began compiling such data, the highest level of unemployment came at the end of 1982, when it hit 10.8 percent. Despite the widespread assumption that the recession has already ended, and even as the economy has resumed growing, the government’s latest snapshot of the labor market released Friday testified to the uncomfortable truth that expansion had yet to translate into jobs.

“The guy on the street is going to ask, ‘What recovery?’ ” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at the PNC Financial Services Group in Pittsburgh. “The job market is still in reverse.”

The sharp rise in unemployment — which climbed from 9.8 percent in September, as the nation lost another 190,000 net jobs — intensified pressure on the Obama administration to show results from the $787 billion package of spending measures unleashed early this year to spur the economy.

On Friday, President Obama signed into law a bill that that extends both unemployment benefits and temporary tax credits for home buyers, adding that he was on the lookout for other ways to generate job growth.

Hilda Solis, the labor secretary, noted a slowdown in the pace of deterioration in arguing that better days were already on the way, while dismissing suggestions that the stimulus had proved disappointing. “I don’t think it’s a matter of things going wrong,” she said in a conference call with reporters. “We’re making a tremendous turning point here.”

But the stark reality of double-digit unemployment seemed certain to inject fresh tension into the economic policy debate, offering Republicans a prop as they assert that the administration’s spending package has failed to create jobs.

Labor unions and some Democrats have called for more spending to create jobs — a course that runs headlong into worries about swelling federal budget deficits.

In an interview this week, Richard L. Trumka, president of the nation’s largest labor union, the A.F.L.-C.I.O., urged the government to finance large-scale construction projects to put people to work. Absent that, he said, “it will probably be 2012 before there starts to be real job creation.”

Despite the headline-grabbing unemployment number, economists sifting through the details of the Labor Department’s report found several reasons to take comfort.

The pace at which jobs are disappearing continued to taper off in October. Between November 2008 and April 2009 — amid the paralyzing fear that accompanied the collapse of prominent financial institutions like Lehman Brothers — the economy shed an average of 645,000 jobs a month. Between May and July, the pace dropped to an average monthly loss of 357,000 jobs. Over the last three reports, average monthly job losses have slipped to 188,000, after factoring in upward revisions to the data for August and September.

Temporary workers increased by 44,000 in October, adding to gains in the previous two months — an apparent sign that businesses had squeezed as much production as they could out of their existing work forces and felt the need to bring in more people.

“That goes the right way,” said Dean Baker, co-director for the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. “That’s an encouraging sign.”

The hope is that as the economy expands, companies will use fresh profits to add to payrolls in a reach for increased sales. As workers spend their paychecks, they will create opportunities for other businesses, generating more jobs — an upward spiral.

Some experts see this unfolding now, asserting that the economy will add jobs by late winter.

“People are hurting, but if you can get past the sticker shock of the unemployment rate and look at the guts of the report, they are still very consistent with a recovery,” said Michael T. Darda, chief economist at the research and trading firm MKM Partners. “We’re getting very close to the peak unemployment rate.”

But some doubt recent trends can continue, absent another dose of government spending.

Though the economy grew at 3.5 percent annualized rate between July and September, much business activity was enhanced by special programs aimed at encouraging consumers to spend, not least the cash-for-clunkers program, which provided taxpayer-financed cash incentives to people trading in their cars.

As the effects of this and other stimulus programs fade over coming months, fundamental weakness may re-emerge, with consumers — whose spending accounts for 70 percent of overall economic activity — confronting enormous debt, the loss of wealth and fears about job security.

“We just went through an unbelievable financial catastrophe in this country and it typically takes a long time to come back,” said Joshua Shapiro, chief United States economist at MFR Inc., a market research firm in New York, who envisions the decline in jobs to continue until at least the middle of next year. He forecasts that the unemployment rate will reach 10.6 percent by the middle of next year and then perhaps climb higher.

Some worry that double-digit unemployment carries a psychological dimension that could perpetuate anxiety, prompting further hunkering down within the economy.

“It’s a benchmark,” Mr. Baker said. “It’s part of a general backdrop of economic news that does affect decisions by businesses and purchases of big-ticket items.”

Beneath the dueling interpretations of future prospects, the report left little doubt that the present remained bleak in millions of American households. The pain has fallen harder on men, among whom unemployment reached 10.7 percent in October, compared with 8.1 percent among women. The unemployment rate for African-American men reached 17.1 percent.

Unemployment reached 9.5 percent among white Americans, 13.1 percent among Hispanics and 27.6 among teenagers.

Health care, a rare bright spot, added 29,000 jobs in October. Construction and manufacturing led the way, losing 62,000 and 61,000 jobs respectively.

In Columbia, S.C., Raymond Vaughn, 43, remains unemployed a year-and-a-half after he lost his job installing windows, relying upon his fiancée’s wages from a secretarial job to pay the bills.

Back in April, he was training for a new career in medical billing through an online course he found on the Internet. But his unemployment benefits soon ran out, eliminating his $221-a-week check, and then he could no longer muster the $98 weekly payments for his course.

Last month, Mr. Vaughn thought he had a job for $13 an hour at a factory that makes flooring boards. But two weeks before he was to begin training, the company called him to revoke the offer. “They said they had a hiring freeze,” he said.

So Mr. Vaughn finds himself stuck in a drearily familiar routine: every morning, he drives to the unemployment office downtown, where crowds seem thicker than ever. He scans meager listings and sends out fresh applications. Then, he returns home, to his sagging couch and his television, where cheerful news anchors tell him that the economy is looking up.

“They say it’s supposed to be better, that’s what I see on the news,” Mr. Vaughn said. “But I sure see a lot of people down at the unemployment office. I really don’t see how the job stuff is going to change. I don’t see any jobs out there.”



Whoa---notice all those other sources than the only one you had to cherry pick out of the middle?



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/7/2009 4:58:46 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 4:54:14 PM   
Lorsan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ridicule works for Rush because that's what his listeners want to hear. I'm gonna want evidence comparing apples to apples--if your orchard is better than mine, let's take apples from each, same variety, same year, same conditions.



You left out the last stipulation in your challenge, the critical one....you set the rules for deciding what is a good apple and what isnt. And your rules are based on far too limited criteria.


No, I didn't. I said repeatedly to pick your own source, one you consider reliable, as well. I even left "reliable" up to your definitions. My criteria are not only NOT limited--they don't limit at all!

The only stipulation is head to head coverage of the same story. If poster are going to dismiss a given story as unreliable because it comes from the "liberal" NY Times or NPR, then they should be able to demonstrate where the bias lies. If not, claiming automatic liberal bias is irrational.

Rich and bita--

Earlier, I also noted that if you wanted to look and compare what was covered fine. I even took a few looks at that myself, and pretty clearly the bias was in the Republican news network. I included what stories were covered.

You guys are giving broad assertions. So fine--analyzing what's covered rather than simply asserting it. Abortion and climate change are very frequently covered topics--I'm sure you'd find all major news sources cover them.

The point here is that mere perception doesn't equal factual, however deeply embedded that perception may have become.

I drive a lot, so I hear a lot of NPR, and people call in sometimes to complain "Where's the Republican guest?"--only to learn this is the next guest in a minute, or to find that guest has a major segment on the next show or had one on the previous show. Mistaken perception at odds with factual reality.

I suspect what often IS the case is not "liberal bias," but that "You didn't report this using the Republican talking points." Such people don't want "fair and balanced" news, but rather news that reports their views back to them.

Rich wants to compare coverage of Bush and Obama from different times. This goes beyond a head to head test to include a host of other issues, and we'd just spin them endlessly. All the media were far tougher on President Johnson for Vietnam, for example, than they were on Bush or Obama for Iraq or Afghanistan, and all have been far tougher on all three than on President Roosevelt for WWII. These are different times, with different circumstances, with a host of different tangental issues, and not conducive to a head to head comparison. Those comparison would take careful and long analysis.

If you want to tell me the stories in the Times and on NPR have a "liberal bias," show me the same story elsewhere fairly covered, so you can point out the so-called bias.

It's a reasonable request. Given all the news reported day after day after day, if that bias is there, it should show.

So far, even if there ultimately IS any such bias, it certainly seems far below the surface, and not so readily apparent, given the difficulty in pointing it out. So far...no evidence.




Bull.  I posted two articles dealing with exactly the same subject and gave a short (albeit I think fair) analysis of the bias in each.  It was subtle but very clear.  Seeing as how this thread is apparently about partisan games instead of the truth, I'm done here.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 5:03:48 PM   
Musicmystery


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Now, your FOX story (which comes in part from AP, incidentally:

FOXNews.com - November 06, 2009
Obama Signs Bill Extending Jobless Benefits as Unemployment Rate Skyrockets
Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs, the Labor Department said Friday, pushing the unemployment rate over 10 percent for the first time since 1983.

Just hours after the government announced that the jobless rate topped 10 percent for the time since 1983, President Obama signed new legislation to provide additional unemployment benefits to Americans thrown out of work.

At a news briefing in the White House Rose Garden on Friday, Obama said the sobering national unemployment number -- 10.2 percent -- is regretful, and pledged to work hard to restore the struggling economy.

Nearly 16 million people are unemployed and the economy shed a net total of 190,000 jobs in October -- less than the downwardly revised 219,000 lost in September -- the Labor Department said Friday. August job losses were also revised lower, to 154,000 from 201,000.

"History tells us that job growth always lags behind economic growth," Obama said, noting a government report last week that said the economy grew at a 3.5 percent annual rate in the July-September quarter, the strongest signal yet that the economy is rebounding.

Obama said the $24 billion economic stimulus bill will extend jobless benefits for up to 20 additional weeks -- an extension that will help over one million Americans, he said.

He added that the bill will also extend tax credits for all home buyers, adding that his economic team is evaluating other options to create jobs and get the economy moving.

"I promise I won't rest until America is prosperous once again," he said.

The loss of jobs last month exceeded economists' estimates. It's the 22nd straight month the U.S. economy has shed jobs, the longest on records dating back 70 years.

Counting those who have settled for part-time jobs or stopped looking for work, the unemployment rate would be 17.5 percent, the highest on records dating from 1994.

The jobless rate rose to 10.2 percent from 9.8 percent in September. The jump reflects a sharp increase in the tally of unemployed Americans, which rose to 15.7 million from 15.1 million. That was much larger than the net loss of jobs, which is based on a survey of businesses.

Economists say it could climb as high as 10.5 percent next year because employers remain reluctant to hire.

"You need explosive growth to take the unemployment rate down," said Dan Greenhaus, chief economic strategist for New York-based investment firm Miller Tabak & Co.

Greenhaus said the economy soared by nearly 8 percent in 1983 after a steep recession, lowering the jobless rate by 2.5 percentage points that year. But the economy is unlikely to improve that fast this time, as consumers remain cautious and tight credit hinders businesses. In fact, many analysts expect economic growth to moderate early next year, as the impact of various government stimulus programs fades.

Many economists also worry that persistently high unemployment could undermine the recovery by restraining consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy.

One sign of how hard it still is to find a job: the number of Americans who have been out of work for six months or longer rose to 5.6 million, a record. They comprise 35.6 percent of the unemployed population, matching a record set last month.

The employment report showed that job losses remain widespread across many industries. Manufacturers eliminated a net total of 61,000 jobs, the most in four months. Construction shed 62,000 jobs, down slightly from the previous month.

Retailers, the financial sector and leisure and hospitality companies all continued to reduce payrolls. The economy has lost a net total of 7.3 million jobs since the recession began in December 2007.

The average work week was unchanged at 33 hours, a disappointment because employers are expected to add more hours for current workers before they begin hiring new ones.

There were some bright spots in the report. Professional and business services companies added 18,000 jobs. And temporary employment grew by 33,700 jobs, after losing positions for months. That's a positive sign because employers are likely to add temporary workers before hiring permanent ones.

Still, economists expect jobs likely will remain scarce even as the economy improves. Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial, said that small businesses, a primary engine of job creation, still face tight credit and don't have the cash reserves to support extra workers.

And many companies are squeezing more production from their existing work forces. Productivity, the amount of output per hour worked, jumped 9.5 percent in the third quarter, the Labor Department said Thursday.

That's the sharpest increase in six years and followed a 6.9 percent rise in the second quarter. The increases enable companies to produce more without hiring extra people.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


Whoops! No big turn to industry here---economists and data from the Labor Dept. Sound familiar?

You're grasping, Rich.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 5:12:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Bull.  I posted two articles dealing with exactly the same subject and gave a short (albeit I think fair) analysis of the bias in each.  It was subtle but very clear.


That's a rosy review. Take another look.

You admitted from the start it was "subtle," and when asked about it, couldn't establish any cause and effect relationship, including admitting you couldn't assign any intent.

That's a long, long ways from QED.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 6:33:39 PM   
Lorsan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Bull.  I posted two articles dealing with exactly the same subject and gave a short (albeit I think fair) analysis of the bias in each.  It was subtle but very clear.


That's a rosy review. Take another look.

You admitted from the start it was "subtle," and when asked about it, couldn't establish any cause and effect relationship, including admitting you couldn't assign any intent.

That's a long, long ways from QED.


You asked for head to head proof of a liberal bias.  I provided that proof and did you one better by giving the conservative proof in the foxnews.com article.  Unless I'm missing it, you didn't say anywhere about it having to be glaring liberalism.  I suspect that if you're looking for an article with a liberal disclaimer in the headline that you're going to be sorely disappointed.  And just because I am unable to tell if the reports are biased intentionally or due more to the reporters own internal bias doesn't mean it's not there. 

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 6:42:51 PM   
TheHeretic


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You aren't going to define your terms, are you?  Just keep chasing tails and insisting that something subtle needs neon lights.  We aren't in disagreement about the media mostly trying for straight reporting.  Bias is going to be quiet.

Have a great night, Tim.

edit to add:  I didn't "ignore" any headlines, Tim.  As already indicated by my links and yours, we don't access the Times through the same channels.  I went with what turned up in my search engine.


< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 11/7/2009 6:44:55 PM >


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/7/2009 8:11:29 PM   
Musicmystery


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OK, Lorsan and Rich,

Where I'm coming from is the continual refrain dismissing NPR or Times stories out of hand as "liberal bias." I started this thread basically asking, "OK, enough--show me." That kind of bias, yes, needs to stand out. Subtle nuance isn't enough to support such a claim, a clam of consistent liberal bias so pronounced that it needs "fair and balanced" counters. Further, such slight bias is ultimately due at least in part to the beholder, vs. the more glaring headlines on the FOX page (or CSM, as Lucy noted).

As you've both noted, we're probably more or less in agreement once we're away from the context the left/right dichotomy talking points demand of the more realistically moderate world. That's probably the disconnect.

I don't see why bias so quiet would even be worth the mention, as surely readers and viewers can readily see past it to the story. I'd also argue bias so slight would vary far more widely by any number of factors. It's a cheap excuse for an argument used far too often.

But as we do seem more or less on the same page, I'm willing to let it rest here.

Tim

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/7/2009 8:12:22 PM >

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/10/2009 9:35:50 PM   
Brain


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People will not pay for their propaganda so I hope Fox becomes irrelevant.

Google says Murdoch stories can be taken off

LONDON - Google said on Tuesday, in response to threats by Rupert Murdoch to ban the search engine from listing content from his news empire, that any company could ask to have stories taken off.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5itzqNKUWQQEZlPHMekGqZuHgZ3kg

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/10/2009 10:17:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That kind of bias, yes, needs to stand out. Subtle nuance isn't enough to support such a claim, a clam of consistent liberal bias so pronounced that it needs "fair and balanced" counters.


I disagree, Tim.  Subtle works.  It can get pervasive and annoying, once you catch that first good whiff.  Ever been in a house where the catbox doesn't get cleaned as often as it should?  After a while, going outside with the smokers might seem a more attractive choice. 

"Fair and balanced" is a phrase from their marketing dept.  Fox is Fox, a right wing, tabloidy, cable news network (which has every right to exist and do their thing). 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/14/2009 3:17:10 PM   
Musicmystery


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By the way, speaking of media empires:

At Bloomberg, a Modest Strategy to Rule the World

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/16/2009 10:32:56 AM   
Musicmystery


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Also, NPR has a really good program looking at the media: On The Media

Not partisan bickering stuff, but surprisingly interesting stories exploring media issues.

Check it out!

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/16/2009 12:07:06 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here's your chance to open my eyes.

Several posters have claimed Fox is the only remaining fair and balanced news source. Several have also repeatedly dismissed The New York Times, CNN, and NPR out of hand as liberal bias. OK...show me. I'm listening. Give me examples:

*Post a link to Fox and explain briefly why the story is uniquely fair and balanced.
*Post links to the same story in The New York Times, CNN, and NPR, detailing the liberal bias.

Among you, we should have a pretty good list.

I await my education. Thanks in advance for taking a few minutes to contribute.

Please show me.

i suggest doing your own research. If you seek answers....by all means, go get them.


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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/16/2009 3:08:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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Perhaps you should read this thread.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/17/2009 1:16:32 AM   
luckydawg


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Yes you should indeed read the thread. It starts with a demand for an exact comaparison of stories from Tv, radio and print. Which is nonsense to start with. It goes on, and the example of the CNN guy laughing at a group of protestors calling them sexually deragatory names 'teabaggers", which of course is NOT an example of bias to MM. And was dismissed with out adressing the point, becase a utube video of CNN was used as evidence. Then it was pointed out that CNN was using fake quotes to slam Limbaugh, and MM again does NOT see any Bias in using fake quotes. So MM then redefined his terms removing CNN from the equation. Which seemed rather biased to me. Somehow the Dan Rather episode is NOT bias either.

So clearly there is absoluty no Bias in the Media. Leaving aside the fact that NPR radio stories can't be posted along side the exact same article in print.

Or MM presented a challenge that he had to change in the middle to avoid admitting bais had indeed been shown. To change terms in the middle shows the argument was wrong to start with, and would simply be laughed at in a serious debate or study.

Now the usuall trolls will come sling insults at me....

Its all they got.


And it is true in here, my views are the extreme minority. And non americans can post here as much as they like, but they don't get to vote.

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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/17/2009 1:27:56 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Yes you should indeed read the thread. It starts with a demand for an exact comaparison of stories from Tv, radio and print. Which is nonsense to start with. It goes on, and the example of the CNN guy laughing at a group of protestors calling them sexually deragatory names 'teabaggers", which of course is NOT an example of bias to MM.


You do realize it was the dumbshit teabaggers who started calling themselves teabaggers before someone told the dumbshits that it was a sexually derogatory (spell check included at no extra charge) reference?






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/17/2009 1:29:59 AM >

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/17/2009 2:19:04 AM   
luckydawg


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No it was MSNBC that started that. You are simply lying now.

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/17/2009 3:58:22 AM   
mnottertail


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mwbR9gYc7Q (around 1:58...2:00) your boy Griff Jenkins.

you cant even pretend to lie sucessfully, ucky.

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(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/17/2009 11:37:53 AM   
luckydawg


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Yet no where in that clip does anyone refer to the protestors as "teabaggers". So what is it supposed to show?

Though if MM had not changed the terms of his agrument, removing CNN from the challenge, your clip would be a perfect example to compare with the eariler CNN clip about the 'Tea parties" showing bias.


But surley you do agree that the challenge MM presented was nonsense, since he had to change paramaters in the middle in order to get the result he wanted. Ycan at least be that honest can't you?



and the term "teabaggers" was brought to the Mainstream Media (not blogs or man on the street level which according to the terms of this challenge do not count), by MSNBC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests

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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 200
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