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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 6:49:10 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		My mistake, bita. Apologies.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 10:55:39 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm still waiting for one single fricking example of news story to news story bias.

Otherwise, dismissing a story for bias is irrational. If it's there, show it to me.

Five pages and not a single story to story example.


You know, this was an absolutely ingenious idea for a thread, Tim. And at the same time, it's so simple I can't believe none of us ever thought of it before. I'm going to bookmark it so I can post a link every time someone starts whining about "librul media bias" in the future. Nicely done.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 12:33:59 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No, Rich. Come on. Flaming hoops?

The Times, CNN, and NPR are consistently held up as examples of liberal bias, with Fox as fair and balanced. I'm asking for examples. Hardly an obstacle course--should be easy, and these are major, long respected news sources.

If it will make you happier--I completely agree about the Yahoo picture. But then, I don't consider search engine companies reliable news sources.

Take a quick look at Fox's home page. Its lead news stories are all about Republicans.

Deride this if you will. At least stay on the sidelines.

People have been after me for years about citing liberally biased sources. I'm asking for head to head examples of that bias in the news stories.

Please.


[edited to add...rule, let the picture go, please...it is indeed a poor choice for a news source--and that's why the major news organizations didn't run it.]


Need a start? Breaking news--the Republican candidate in the New York Congressional race to replace McHugh (I'm in that district, incidentally--a Republican district for years and years), just dropped out, leaving the Democrat and the Conservative in a tight race. All four are covering it---Fox, the Times, CNN, NPR.

Let's compare the stories.



I'll look at the stories but in all honesty, the only person I've ever heard make the claim that FOX was fair and balanced was the announcer during commercial breaks.  Most of us that follow FOX news do so because it does lean to the conservative side.  We know that its biased towards the conservative side and, because of our conservative slant, tend to see it as more fair and balanced.  Are they?  Well, you don't really have to research for stories to compare...take a look at a site like mediawatch.org or any one of the sites of those folks that follow the media.  But you know what?  Even there, depending on who is behind the site, you are going to find that there is bias even on reporting the numbers.  Stories that others may consider evidence of a liberal bias may not be viewed in the same manner by liberal workers at a media watchdog site. 

But good luck...

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 1:40:40 PM   
rikigrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If Fox has so much time to fill, they might try content.



Who is showing some bias now, Tim?  The ratings indicate they have the content they need to be #1 in their breed.

And I don't see a valid comparison.  Someone could play with the Times selections of certain words and quotes as evidence that they are positively biased towards the president.

Perhaps, instead of looking at one event, we need to look at a differing coverages of a similar event?  Say, a story from 2005 about Bush II's approval numbers dropping, vs. a story from this summer, about President Obama's approval numbers dropping.  Compare like with like, and see which culprit seems worse?  


The constant waving of the oversized foam hand with the index finger pointing skyward ("we're number one, we're number one") in respect to FNC's ratings is getting tiresome. There has been a lot of rubbish on the telly in years past that had equally large numbers, large numbers do not equate with quality, just a willingness of the sheep to line up for dinner at the sound of the bell. 

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 1:44:22 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		lol riki.. Jerry Springer quickly comes to mind!

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 1:52:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rikigrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If Fox has so much time to fill, they might try content.



Who is showing some bias now, Tim?  The ratings indicate they have the content they need to be #1 in their breed.

And I don't see a valid comparison.  Someone could play with the Times selections of certain words and quotes as evidence that they are positively biased towards the president.

Perhaps, instead of looking at one event, we need to look at a differing coverages of a similar event?  Say, a story from 2005 about Bush II's approval numbers dropping, vs. a story from this summer, about President Obama's approval numbers dropping.  Compare like with like, and see which culprit seems worse?  


The constant waving of the oversized foam hand with the index finger pointing skyward ("we're number one, we're number one") in respect to FNC's ratings is getting tiresome. There has been a lot of rubbish on the telly in years past that had equally large numbers, large numbers do not equate with quality, just a willingness of the sheep to line up for dinner at the sound of the bell. 


If its getting tiresome why wont the lefties stfu about it?

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 5:24:01 PM   
rikigrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol riki.. Jerry Springer quickly comes to mind!

'Zactly tazzy, Jerry Springer/Fox News/WWE (or whatever abbreviation wrestling uses), it's all just mindless "entertainment" for those too vacuous and/or too lazy to to ferret out the facts. (and obviously their numbers are legion)

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 6:35:33 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rikigrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol riki.. Jerry Springer quickly comes to mind!

'Zactly tazzy, Jerry Springer/Fox News/WWE (or whatever abbreviation wrestling uses), it's all just mindless "entertainment" for those too vacuous and/or too lazy to to ferret out the facts. (and obviously their numbers are legion)
"ferret out the facts" from the same poster who suggests Germany's declaration of war was somehow justified by American aggression in 1941......
The comedy on this site is priceless!

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 7:21:50 PM   
Nemesys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think you cherry picked the quotes to make your points.

This paragraph, the lead from the FNC article, is clearly biased
quote:

President Obama tried to rally support for New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine Sunday, making a return visit to the Garden State in a bid to prevent Republicans from sweeping the major state and local elections Tuesday




I tried to find quotes that dealt with the same subject, as closely as possible within the stories. I avoided the leads purposefully. Perhaps we can agree that the Times take was defensive of Obama's position, just as the Fox take was challenging of it. As Lorsan pointed out, there is perspective to be found on both sides, and in my opinion, none is more clearly biased than the other... except, perhaps, as viewed on an angle as we both are doing :-)

I wish you well, N

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 7:29:34 PM   
Nemesys


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quote:


'Zactly tazzy, Jerry Springer/Fox News/WWE (or whatever abbreviation wrestling uses), it's all just mindless "entertainment" for those too vacuous and/or too lazy to to ferret out the facts. (and obviously their numbers are legion)


In my undergraduate days, I studied persuasive, rhetorical, and propaganda techniques, and I walked away from that course of study with one lesson learned: when we find ourselves smugly cocooned and blanketed in our own little truths, that's the very best time to sit up and ask ourselves if we're really being lied to.

Media literacy is good practice for everyone today, regardless of what side of the fence one sits upon.

I wish you well, N


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 8:18:06 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		I see my name listed, but you might want to actually read my post...

That being said...
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

quote:


Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal. Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter. The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third. "Our estimates for these outlets, we feel, give particular credibility to our efforts, as three of the four moderators for the 2004 presidential and vice-presidential debates came from these three news outlets — Jim Lehrer, Charlie Gibson and Gwen Ifill," Groseclose said. "If these newscasters weren't centrist, staffers for one of the campaign teams would have objected and insisted on other moderators." The fourth most centrist outlet was "Special Report With Brit Hume" on Fox News, which often is cited by liberals as an egregious example of a right-wing outlet. While this news program proved to be right of center, the study found ABC's "World News Tonight" and NBC's "Nightly News" to be left of center. All three outlets were approximately equidistant from the center, the report found. "If viewers spent an equal amount of time watching Fox's 'Special Report' as ABC's 'World News' and NBC's 'Nightly News,' then they would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news," said Milyo, an associate professor of economics and public affairs at the University of Missouri at Columbia.


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/2/2009 9:03:56 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL:Nemesys

In my undergraduate days, I studied persuasive, rhetorical, and propaganda techniques, and I walked away from that course of study with one lesson learned: when we find ourselves smugly cocooned and blanketed in our own little truths, that's the very best time to sit up and ask ourselves if we're really being lied to.

Media literacy is good practice for everyone today, regardless of what side of the fence one sits upon.

I wish you well, N



Yeah!

Imagine that.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/3/2009 1:09:03 AM   
mcbride


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subrob, it might be helpful to Google a peek at reaction to that study.  You'll find some troubling questions about the methodology, from a variety of academic and non-academic sources, some of which note that the two authors "have previously received funding from the three premier conservative think tanks in the United States". There's a good analysis from what I think is a relatively balanced source here.

The problem is, there have been endless studies, and guess what? Studies by conservatives find a liberal bias, and studies by liberals find a conservative bias. Which is why I think Musicmystery deserves credit for a simple and brilliant exercise, and the outcome, or perhaps lack of outcome, is telling.


Either way, the quote of the day belongs to Nemesys:

quote:

Media literacy is good practice for everyone today, regardless of what side of the fence one sits upon.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/3/2009 5:00:09 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I see my name listed, but you might want to actually read my post...

That being said...
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx


Holy smokes, dude, that was almost 5 years ago!  Srsly!

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/3/2009 6:01:46 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
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Status: offline 		I think all mainstream media is bias, corrupt and untrustworthy. Most of all they are fear mongering propagandist.

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/3/2009 6:22:57 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What media, then, is unbiased, incorruptible, trustworthy, and what evidence supports those paragons?

Dismissing all such media out of hand based on unsupported opinion seems pretty unreasonable.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/3/2009 6:23:55 PM >

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/3/2009 9:47:29 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		I don't believe anyone news media is entirely free of some sort of bias.  When just a few multinational corporations own all the media, I have a hard time believing that corporate interest play no part in the news we receive.Further more I think there is plenty of evidence when alternative media reports certain "conspiracy theories" and the mainstream media denounces it or "debunks" it. Then A few weeks, months or years later after so much evidence has been presented that they must report it as fact. Examples, NAFTA super highway, North American Union, Clergy Response Team, Gardsil killing and maiming girls, thermerasol being in vaccines and being harmful, I could go on and on these are just a few that come to mind. Another way they manipulate the news is to leave out information. Iran for example. They have broken no international law, and underinternational law have the right to create nuclear energy for their people, up til now they have followed ever UN mandate on the issue. The media leaves out bits of information to cause a hightened sense of fear in the population. I believe the best news sorce is person diligence. The diligence to read bills for yourself, reading vaccine inserts yourself and researching evidence of their effects, talking to people about their personal experince and gathering your own conculsions. One must realize the mainstream media can make lies fact, and they can shape the reality of those who use them as their sole sorce to understand what's going on in the world.

Here's and interesting video I found watch both parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SCcivXwxOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ8larXs4WU


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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/4/2009 8:20:23 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm still waiting for one single fricking example of news story to news story bias.

Otherwise, dismissing a story for bias is irrational. If it's there, show it to me.

Five pages and not a single story to story example.


You know, this was an absolutely ingenious idea for a thread, Tim. And at the same time, it's so simple I can't believe none of us ever thought of it before. I'm going to bookmark it so I can post a link every time someone starts whining about "librul media bias" in the future. Nicely done.




Okeee-fine, then.  I never bought the premise of this thread, but if that's the way it is going to be, let's at least get something as a basis of comparison.  Reporting on falling poll numbers.  What follows are four links, two NYT, two Fox.  They're from similar timeframes, reporting similiar sorts of polls, President Obama from Sept. and Oct. of this year, Bush II from 2005, about the same place in his second term, as Obama is in his first. 

They are written to different style manuals, intended for different forms of communication. 

Bush Poll Numbers, 9/15/05, New York Times

Obama Poll Numbers, 9/24/09, New York Times

Bush Poll Numbers, 10/27/05, Fox

Obama Poll Numbers, 10/29/09, Fox


No.  They are not discussing identical polls.

Have fun!

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/5/2009 5:03:12 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Not in response to Heretic, but thought this should go here instead of starting a new thread
This is about fox and what they reported regarding the Pres not watching the election( I believe politico did also)
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/11/04/obama-watched-hbo-special-about-himself-instead-election-results

OOOOOps then they found out that he wasnt watching himself

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/11/04/fox-news-misreported-robert-gibbs-press-gaggle-comments

Christian science monitor mention it too
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/04/fox-admits-blunder-in-reporting-obama-watched-documentary/
The only part I can find about it on fox(surprise) is karl rove waxing poetic on a contemptous gesture.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=11292940&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/index.html

Lucy

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 11/5/2009 5:04:57 AM >

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RE: Take the Fox Balance/Bias Challenge! - 11/5/2009 5:20:27 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Incidentally, the NY Times reported about big wins for Republicans in the governors races--those were the headline stories, and those stories included people noting the President's coattails weren't there, that people voted about state issues, unswayed.

The 23rd win for Owens was a small, minor headline, a single story, reporting the factual progress of the race, with no mention at all about Obama's coattails, just the candidates. There was also discussion about Conservatives energized to move forward in the future, just the facts as they themselves have stated.

NPR split the time equally among those three races, with more discussion about what it means (but here we're moving into commentary, not strictly news). The commentary also was hardly a slanted--they noted that people voted local issues, that Obama was still popular with many voters, if not as popular as before, but that this did not transfer to state and local elections at all, and that he'll have a harder time convincing members of Congress to follow his lead.

No one coming into this fresh would have reasonably called either liberal--if anything, it was slanted critically toward the President and the governor's races toward Democrats (they covered why the Democrats had earned their defeats, as they were flawed candidates).

Just saying.

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