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RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/3/2009 5:01:13 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Wouldn't any form of compulsary service be a touch.......socialistic?
It strikes me as decidedly un- American....not to mention ripe for possible abuse....just imagine elections a generation or so from now....."Mr so and so supposedly was often missing from his National Service post while his papers got rubber stamped because his father was on the Ways and Means Commitee"
No,this sounds like not only a bad idea but an unworkable one to boot....BK mentioned many possible positions...well I don't think the many Unions that would be impacted under that sort of plan would react kindly to such an arrangement.....hell I would imagine they would raise bloody hell over it.
And lets be honest there is no way to enact such a plan where those born with some options wouldn't find a way to game the system....it would be a monumental clusterfuck.


Are you feeling well today?

This is a rare post.   We agree on something.  lol

Mandatory volunteer- is forced labor.    People already serve when they participate in taxes. 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/3/2009 6:46:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Things happen quickly now days…any crackpot dictator or fanatic can buy some planes…starve his people to build an army…get on the internet and build some bombs and rockets and start a war. It takes time to build an army for a response…not just a few weeks…the way to survive is to have a trained reserve army in the fashion of Switzerland to be able to respond effectively. There was a time where distance protected us from the worst of war…that will not be the case in the next world war. We will need to defend our land physically.

We should have a mandatory 2-year military service and 20-year active reserve obligation...for men.

It has been said and it is the truth…. military builds character and pride and would help our youth grow and be responsible adults with a true investment in our country.

It is not fair that a few patriotic men and woman must repeatedly put their lives on the line because some don’t want to serve.

We all have the responsibility to exercise our rights of vote to assure we have people that will responsibly comment our boys and girls to war if necessary. Apathy assures incompetence in government and if you don’t vote and express your ideas then you deserve the government you get.

Butch


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(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/3/2009 6:36:15 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		Mandatory service...one thing comes to mind, Hitler's youth. When did this country become one that longer respected individual liberty? Servitude seems just a tad unamerican to me. Perhaps, I missed the part where Americans stopped caring about the preservation of freedom, and the right to live ones life as they so choose. I agree with pahunkboy Mandatory volunteer- is forced labor. What dim future for our country.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 4:33:36 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The idea of my son (now 14) being sent off unwillingly to be (at best) mentally scarred for life in Afghanistan is something I would resist to the utmost.

Our obviously flawed, deeply cynical and failed foreign policy over decades - a policy which benefits me and mine not one jot but rewards those who might send my son against his will to the shitpit which is war is not something worth my son's life to perpetuate.

E

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 6:08:33 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Pahunk has a point, and a very good point at that, you pay taxes, and those taxes are used amongst other things to recruit and equip a professional armed force, the same way your taxes are used to create a professional police force and all the other institutions that govern you as a people.

What is the point paying taxes for all these things, if you are required by law to serve yourself.

Draft should only be a question when the country is physically under threat, you enlist to protect your homes and families and the way of life you lead in your country.

The so called break up of society, the youth of today, well, was it that much different than the youth of today a generation ago and so on. But the ills in society have other causes, which could be addressed, if people chose to look for them.

Personally, I hold consumerism to be a major cause, the ease of availability of the latest shiny object, that and a media set up to promote the shiny objects. The media is with us all the time, telling us what we must have in life.

As an aside, it is this expectation of what we must have in life that in the UK prevents the unemployed taking the low paid jobs. Foreigners will take them, and be seen to be hard working, because they are working the low paid jobs, but then coming from a poorer country, they have not been schooled in what a person is expected to possess in life. The consumerist brainwashing has caused this.


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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 7:03:26 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I joined the 82nd Airborne while we were still in Vietnam.  By the time I got through basic, A. I. T. and jump school, we were out.  I went to Panama for a show of force and to Korea after they shot down an American chopper.  I spent 3 yrs in the service and 4 yrs in the reserve.  Like others here...Bounty, submittous, I have no regrets about giving that time to the country and the others before me that gave me the freedom to live as I do.

Too many think being born was all they had to do...that and agitating others to give what they've earned to those who have not.
What would be really amusing would be to see what your post's would look like if Obama and a Democratic Congress ever tried to reinstate a draft......The Gov't can't be trusted to be in the health care business...but you seem to be supporting some sort of mandatory service....too comical.
Again, you see what you want to see and react in a knee-jerk, simplistic fashion.

There is a whole lot of difference in mandatory service...whether in the military or  non-military capacity.  Number one..the purpose of service is for the government to have somebody to accomplish a goal and to pay that person a reasonable wage while at the same time teaching them a new skill.  IIn health care, the purpose of the government is to make sure people that cannot or will not pay for health insurance are still covered.  They are paying these people's way when what these people will be doing is going to the doctor...not building bridges or highways or protecting the country.  What skill set is being taught there?  And as far as payment goes...yes, the government will be paying but they will be paying people...the doctors...who are forced into a system that, unlike mandatory service in the military or non-military sector, they are not able to opt out of after a set period of time to return to the private sector.  Number two...the time of mandatory service is limited and a decision to continue on past the mandatory service would be up to the individual.  As noted above...in this case, it is the people who are not receiving the benefit who are forced into service and they cannot opt out.  I would love to opt out of Medicare and charge the patients under that program the same amount I charge my regular patients or I would love to have the government pay a reasonable fee for the services I provide these patients.  But the government will not allow me to do either.  They do allow me to use an Advanced Notice to these patients which notifies the patient that there are some services that the government does not pay for or pay for completely and that I am allowed to charge for these.  You'd be surprised how many people don't even want to have to pay that extra 2-3 bucks.

Government-run health care is NOT the same as a government-run military or a government-run non-military undertaking like the Peace Corps. 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 7:15:21 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The thing here is that we are rightly enough currently concerned with our imperialism.

However, Iraq and Afghanistan is rather instructive in terms of war.

So, we can use our high tech to throw up tons and tons of steel that our enemies have to breathe, which cakks the biggest lot of them.

But we haven't the groundtroops to keep martial control once we have gained a foothold.

From a cold and calculated (that is, ignore cost, death, destruction and future) stance, these are little pissant wars.

What this says is that we don't have any ability to prosecute a sucessful medium to large war, and world war? Should it break out, we are absolutely fucked.

Bring back the draft.

Ron

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 8:40:27 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ron-- I think you better check the land  mass of those countries.   Iraq has the space of California.   A state that is pretty large.
The wars are little compared to the over throw of the govt in the US which the US people will do and for that- I will join many others and 'volunteer"  to take our country back from the bankers.


I served in Americore.  It was something I wanted to do. 

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 8:44:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Think about it Hunk, you are equivocating what I said to we can not defeat and then control California should they secede? Ja, that is about right. And that is my point.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:03:52 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What is the point paying taxes for all these things, if you are required by law to serve yourself.


Well, unless you're also required bring your own rifles, tanks, food, gear, and provide for your own transport.....

....oh, and medical care, vet services.......

Hopefully we can get enough volunteer generals, colonels, captains.....and pilots and engineers and such, all previously trained...



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/4/2009 9:05:58 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:05:44 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I joined the 82nd Airborne while we were still in Vietnam.  By the time I got through basic, A. I. T. and jump school, we were out.  I went to Panama for a show of force and to Korea after they shot down an American chopper.  I spent 3 yrs in the service and 4 yrs in the reserve.  Like others here...Bounty, submittous, I have no regrets about giving that time to the country and the others before me that gave me the freedom to live as I do.

Too many think being born was all they had to do...that and agitating others to give what they've earned to those who have not.
What would be really amusing would be to see what your post's would look like if Obama and a Democratic Congress ever tried to reinstate a draft......The Gov't can't be trusted to be in the health care business...but you seem to be supporting some sort of mandatory service....too comical.
Again, you see what you want to see and react in a knee-jerk, simplistic fashion.

There is a whole lot of difference in mandatory service...whether in the military or  non-military capacity.  Number one..the purpose of service is for the government to have somebody to accomplish a goal and to pay that person a reasonable wage while at the same time teaching them a new skill.  IIn health care, the purpose of the government is to make sure people that cannot or will not pay for health insurance are still covered.  They are paying these people's way when what these people will be doing is going to the doctor...not building bridges or highways or protecting the country.  What skill set is being taught there?  And as far as payment goes...yes, the government will be paying but they will be paying people...the doctors...who are forced into a system that, unlike mandatory service in the military or non-military sector, they are not able to opt out of after a set period of time to return to the private sector.  Number two...the time of mandatory service is limited and a decision to continue on past the mandatory service would be up to the individual.  As noted above...in this case, it is the people who are not receiving the benefit who are forced into service and they cannot opt out.  I would love to opt out of Medicare and charge the patients under that program the same amount I charge my regular patients or I would love to have the government pay a reasonable fee for the services I provide these patients.  But the government will not allow me to do either.  They do allow me to use an Advanced Notice to these patients which notifies the patient that there are some services that the government does not pay for or pay for completely and that I am allowed to charge for these.  You'd be surprised how many people don't even want to have to pay that extra 2-3 bucks.

Government-run health care is NOT the same as a government-run military or a government-run non-military undertaking like the Peace Corps. 
Please don't concern yourself with my jerking knee,and as for simplicity please see the nearest mirror.Is that not simple enough?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:18:44 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

What is the point paying taxes for all these things, if you are required by law to serve yourself.


Well, unless you're also required bring your own rifles, tanks, food, gear, and provide for your own transport.....

....oh, and medical care, vet services.......

Hopefully we can get enough volunteer generals, colonels, captains.....and pilots and engineers and such, all previously trained...




But we now have a new world order- a one world government.   Which means we then would not have wars as we are all one.  There is no other side.  Not per global government.

So why would we even need troops and who is the enemy?

And if it is for terrorists- then who and what IS such an animal?     

It is ALL about the banks.   Not anything to do with peace or security.   We are owned by big banks.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:24:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We do not have a one world government, open any newspaper, watch any tv show, hell, even listen to Limbaugh....



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:29:47 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I am opposed to a draft in the US, we really don't need a whole bunch of 19 year-old Yanks up here, we have enough of our own.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:32:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know how the 19 year old yanks would affect you up there, I don't think we plan to invade canada until Obamas second term.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:35:46 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We do not have a one world government, open any newspaper, watch any tv show, hell, even listen to Limbaugh....


"listen to Limbaugh"....*gasp*.Ron I don't think things have gotten so bad that you need to be talkin crazy stuff.....sheeesh,listen to Limbaugh my ass!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:40:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It was to Hunk, he can take the controversy and conflagration and conspiracy without further damage.

We will be invading Canada and California soon, so should we clean out any other C's that have been giving us trouble once we re-institute the draft?

Discuss.

R

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:46:54 AM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We do not have a one world government, open any newspaper, watch any tv show, hell, even listen to Limbaugh....



Perhaps not yet but we sure seem to be headed there. Especially if the Copenhagen treaty is signed as it is now. A global tax sure does seem  like a step in that direction at least in my opinion.  

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:51:21 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I cant think of any war in the past 100 years which was necessary.

Wars are funded- both sides by big banks.

I do not "volunteer" for that.  Nor should I.

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Bring back the draft. - 11/4/2009 9:52:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We do not have a one world government, open any newspaper, watch any tv show, hell, even listen to Limbaugh....



Perhaps not yet but we sure seem to be headed there. Especially if the Copenhagen treaty is signed as it is now. A global tax sure does seem  like a step in that direction at least in my opinion.  



That treaty, "agreement" is a threat to private property.  I hope it does not pass.

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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