RE: mental issues and drugs

RE: mental issues and drugs (Full Version)

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Missokyst -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/11/2009 10:37:49 AM)
Making dolls or redesigning them... which also involves collecting. The most issues I run across there is when people do not have enough time to create. quote: ORIGINAL: Rastimmipitwax quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst in my doll groups I don't see a lot of that. Is that "living doll" or "making/collecting dolls"? Most certainly there is as much going on with the living doll community as with the BDSM community, and well...let's just not go there on the subject of other sorts of dolls, especially combined with the ... inspiration ... to collect

DesFIP -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/11/2009 10:44:22 AM)
I don't think there are more people with diagnoses here, I think that more people here admit than on other boards. I know myself that it isn't usually accepted to talk about on vanilla boards. Since we talk about all kinds of other weird stuff here, we have no shame of admitting to a brain disorder also. Rates of addiction with a mental health diagnosis tends to be 5 times higher than in the non mental health people. Usually due to no diagnosis early on, so they learn to self medicate with street drugs and alcohol. And dual diagnosis is a bitch to treat especially since AA and such meetings frequently don't want 'crazy people' talking about that.

LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/11/2009 1:34:56 PM)
Guess I'll weigh in on this thread too. I have had chronic clinical depression for as long as I can remember & probably before that too. I had my first suicidal thoughts at the age of 5 & my first attempt was at 11 years of age. I had my first drink at the age of 16 & actually remember the feeling & thinking, "Ahhhh, I've finally found the answer." I drank & took illicit drugs for the next 13 years, attempting to find that place again. I started therapy in my mid-20's. Often I would get very good, very helpful therapy, but even more often it just didn't help, for whatever reason. I got clean & sober in 1976. I stopped going to AA 12 years later, when I realized that they didn't approve of my treating my underlying ailment with meds. I was told for 2 years that I would benefit from meds before anyone actually prescribed them for me. This was in 1985. I took the med for about 3 months, felt much better & stopped. Within a year I was right back down in the bottom of that well & went back & did therapy & meds for another 3 months, felt better & stopped. Less than a year later, I found a Dr who could make me understand that I would probably need the meds for the rest of my life. You see, I believed it was somehow weak & a cop-out to take meds. I thought I should just get therapy, do what they told me to do, and snap out of it!! From 1987-1992 or so, I had a very good remission in symptoms. I had been taking my meds & had spent nearly 2 years with a therapist once each week & felt wonderful. I felt the way that I wanted to feel all those years previous. Then it started again. I struggled for over 7 years, in & out of psych wards, trying every new med & either having horrible side effects or finding that it wasn't effective for me. Prozac made me suicidal to the point that I was stockpiling pills & had a bag packed & a plan. That's when ECT was suggested to me. Nothing else had worked. Not inpatient. Not outpatient. None of the meds they put me on. Nothing. I resisted for a long time because I just didn't want to admit that I was that ill. I finally agreed to try it once. I stayed in the hospital & went through an entire series. By this time, I had been declared totally & permanently disabled by the Social Security Administration & had been receiving payments for over 2 years. I was desperate to feel better. I began to gradually improve. Finally, I got strong enough to leave a toxic relationship. Then I got strong enough to go to CDL school & get a job driving a truck, fulfilling a 40-year-long dream of mine. I continued to improve until 2004 when I stopped functioning again. My family sort of ganged up on me & I was admitted to inpatient for more ECT's. This time was harder for me for some reason. I stopped before they thought I should. But I have been steadily improving again since then. My Dr has had to tweak my meds a few times since then & I believe that we've found the right combo. Without the meds, I wouldn't be able to work. I wouldn't be able to live. I would be on the streets or dead. So while some may think that it's an easy way out, that's not the case for me. They keep me alive. They keep me functioning. I no longer feel broken. I can cope with whatever life throws at me. I can laugh & feel hopeful even after being fired from my job & ending up 3,000 miles away from home. I'm capable of looking for another job. I know that I can go on job interviews & that I will be able to present myself as the strong, intelligent & capable woman that I am now.

Missokyst -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 7:28:55 AM)
This is why I question the use of meds. My dad was an alcoholic. I saw no mood swings, no unusual behavior in him other than his need to pick up that bottle after work each day and fall out of the car, drunk. As far as I knew he was not self medicating, he was addicted. My nephews wife also seems like she may be an alcoholic rather than the bi-polar diagnosis, since the only time she "acts out" is 1 quart into the first bottle. Back in the early 60's when women were mostly stay at home types, my mom was on daily meds (valium) for "womens issues".. the common term for bored stiff and not knowing how not to be, back then. She stopped doing meds once she got out of the house and found a job. If in fact she was clinically depressed enough to need meds rather than just bored she probably would have stayed on them during her work years, but she didn't. For those (non med) years she smiled.. a very unusual thing for my mom. The average wait time in a doctors office is 40 mins here and the actual time the doc spends in with the patient is 5-10 mins. So.. is it the diagnosis or the rush to move along to the next in line? For the record I have had issues in my life that might classify me as needing meds. I was suicidal around the ages of 12-15, tried it a few times but failed. I am a cutter.. which for me served to keep me from harming others.. and btw connected to those suicidal thoughts. I was bulimic, a fast fix and very addictive.. I find myself heading there again. I am agorophobic. All these things I mostly control. The suicidal thoughts come and go (none in the last 20 yrs). I still cut but only when I am over the top, stressed out. I sometimes overstuff myself I think in an subconcious need to purge it out. And I make myself face my fears, I create tasks which get me out the door daily. In other words I have looked over my life and found the ways to (mostly) face my demons head on and do battle with them. My question is still are people getting medicated because they need them? Or is it because that is the easy fix? The suicidal thoughts seemed to be very common among girls the same age as I was.. under similar circumstances. I can recall that from group therapy. I am not saying people don't have issues like bi-polar, or that they may not need meds to cope. I am sure there are more than a few people who are clinically in need. But not everyone who is an alcoholic is depressed. Not everyone who cuts does it because some bad boby chemical tells them they must. Sometimes it is just our own whacked out personality that we either learn to battle, or we give in to the urge. quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Usually due to no diagnosis early on, so they learn to self medicate with street drugs and alcohol. And dual diagnosis is a bitch to treat especially since AA and such meetings frequently don't want 'crazy people' talking about that.

Lucienne -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 10:14:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst My question is still are people getting medicated because they need them? Or is it because that is the easy fix? Even if you imagine that meds are an "easy fix," that doesn't change the fact that there is a problem to be fixed. Is there something wrong with choosing an efficient solution to the problem? I don't think meds are an "easy fix." If they are for some people, then I totally applaud them using meds. I can travel ten yards on my hands and knees, but it's far easier to do it standing up on my feet. Meds help people stand up. They don't make you move forward. Your attitude is disturbing because there is no shortage of cultural messages stating that people should be able to "will" themselves out of mental illness. More importantly, for most people, there really is no magic pill. Meds don't make you happy and healthy. Meds get you to a place where you can take the other steps necessary to manage the condition. It's still a lot of hard work.

kccuckoldmist -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 11:41:28 AM)
quote: My question is still are people getting medicated because they need them? Or is it because that is the easy fix? Sorry but I will repeat what I have written. When it comes to anyone’s health there are no style points or rankings of who does it better or which way is the better/cooler way. The biggest mistake people make often when other people are included is the old everyone is just like me or a person I know. Well we human beings are simply way more complicated then simple comparisons. Medication can be used to at least first get a person in a proper frame of mind to give them the best options to go forward that may or may not include ongoing medications or slowly getting off the meds by the patient working on the issues. But as others have pointed out not all mental problems are equal and there are many illnesses and even more when factoring major degree of an illness where modern medicine literally saves people’s lives and help them and others live in society often with few limitations. Some people are going to do best with controlling and dealing with their issues without medications. Some people might not do well in these areas and to me a very poor and judgmental choice in words is born “the easy way out”. Some have major bad symptoms to medications that motivate them to deal and get off them. Some can have very minimal symptoms to medications and will be less motivated to try alternative methods. Most people though often start with a combination of medications and therapy and go from there. There is only one right answer/way for me personally and that is getting a person to live as full a life as possible with minimal issues and limitations. Who gives a crap if that is by popping a pill, not taking medication or a combination of both. Let the people affected determine what is their own path to be the healthiest and not think one path is the only or best path.

Missokyst -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 12:02:04 PM)
I am not saying there is not a need when there is one. What I am saying is that on average a doctors visit is about 10 mins long. In that amount of time it is unlikely that the reason has not been explored. I see a lot of kids on meds for issues that used to be just personality types. I might be labeled as adhd if it were not for also being anal. Meds are great for reining people in enough to calm down and view the world. I am less impressed with their use if there is not a follow up to work on the why they need them. Many of the posters here have done the work on both (probably why they seem normal). People like my nephews wife, choose instead to take meds and use alcohol as reason. I find that disturbing. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst My question is still are people getting medicated because they need them? Or is it because that is the easy fix? Your attitude is disturbing because there is no shortage of cultural messages stating that people should be able to "will" themselves out of mental illness. More importantly, for most people, there really is no magic pill. Meds don't make you happy and healthy. Meds get you to a place where you can take the other steps necessary to manage the condition. It's still a lot of hard work.

kccuckoldmist -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 12:17:24 PM)
quote: What I am saying is that on average a doctors visit is about 10 mins long. In that amount of time it is unlikely that the reason has not been explored. Doctors are only part of the equation and for mental illnesses the psychiatrist role is to monitor the medications and not be the front line for the patient to learn, confront and deal with their disease. That is first and primarily the patient who has to do and want this and second their teacher and support is their therapist/psychologist, other mental help professionals, family and friends. Yes there are some poor doctors that go through the motions but at the same time most probably are not and it might look like they are going through the motions. So a patient meets with them and knowing they are not doing anything other then pop pills they will only need a few minutes. If they know they are actively working on their issues and the patient presses upon them to try lower doses or if the reports back from therapist are detailed and encouraging. The short visit may be a lazy doctor, there maybe no reason to be a visit outside of the limitations of the healthcare and insurance industry. It could be because prior to the visit the doctor has a lot of information from reports and phone calls on how the patient is doing that all the effort and leg work has been done. Like on the show House, patients lie. Why I write this is that when it comes to mental disease and ongoing treatment the fifteen or thirty minute snap shot is not often the best way to diagnose the problem or the stage the problem and person is in. That often it is the reports or the therapists and parents, along with the patient and all of that gets factored into it.

Lucienne -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 5:25:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I see a lot of kids on meds for issues that used to be just personality types. I might be labeled as adhd if it were not for also being anal. Meds are great for reining people in enough to calm down and view the world. I am less impressed with their use if there is not a follow up to work on the why they need them. If the meds do the work all on their own, then I don't think behavioral or attitudinal issues need to be addressed. If I've got a bacterial infection and the doctor prescribes anti-biotics, I don't need to study bacteria to understand how I got there in order for the problem to be fixed. I think there are a lot of sensitive issues that can be addressed regarding the use and abuse (ivy league kids using adhd drugs as study aides, I'm looking at you!) of psychotropic meds. But I don't think they can be fairly addressed if you're coming from the place you seem to be coming from. You don't need to be impressed by the use of drugs alone, from a moral perspective. Because the use of drugs alone pretty much doesn't do the trick. And if it does do the trick, what's wrong with that?

angelikaJ -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 5:26:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I am not saying there is not a need when there is one. What I am saying is that on average a doctors visit is about 10 mins long. In that amount of time it is unlikely that the reason has not been explored. My experience has been vastly different than yours and I think it may be because you are equating treatment by your internist to that of a psychiatrist. (But my experience with my regular doctor seems quite different than yours as well.) However, for the psychiatrist I see, my initial visit lasted 2 hours. She spent time taking a medical history as well as spending time on the psychological/psychiatric end of things. My follow-up visits lasted 30 minutes, which is much longer than the norm. She spoke with my regular doctor on occasion just to make sure they were on the same page in regards to things/ I just went back to her after a 2 year absence and again she took her time in listening before prescribing anything. Missokyst, That is great that you can manage your own issues, but you know it is possible that were you on the right medication for you there might be less to manage. There are many things a pill can't fix. However, when dealing with mental illnesses there is a quality of life issue involved and medications can improve the quality of life for many patients.

angelikaJ -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 5:42:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rastimmipitwax quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Which counseling method will help SAD (seasonal affective disorder). (There are studies now that show Wellbutrin can actually prevent it.) While I agree with you in general that therapy is not capable of curing serious brain disorders, I can say without the slightest doubt that Wellbutrin does very little to help victims of SAD. Wellbutrin works great for general or monopolar depression, but only very mild cases of SAD respond to it at all. There are some research studies that seemed to point to it as useful, but more that indicate the opposite. On the other hand, an SLT lamp (SAD Light Therapy) has proven almost universally effective, and I can vouch for it personally having used both Wellbutrin and an SLT lamp and tested them both individually and together. The lamp has no effect on my monopolar depression and the drug has no effect on my SAD. The biggest problem is that neither are a cure; once you stop taking/using them, your are soon right back where you started. This is fine with me, I can continue using them indefinitely. Now if I could just find a cure for procrastination I'd be set for life [8D] The study wasn't about the treatment of SAD; it was a study that determined that Wellbutrin actually prevents it from occuring in some people.

Missokyst -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/12/2009 7:29:16 PM)
Actually my opinion of psychiatrists is vastly different than my view of those 10 mins wonders. The time I spent with them.. the people who actually got to know me was very helpful. My issues are with those doctors that prescribe meds based on what little info they get in a short interview. I know too many that are drugged up without any results other than to make other peoples lives more peaceful. In my view that is not finding the root cause or the solution. quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ My experience has been vastly different than yours and I think it may be because you are equating treatment by your internist to that of a psychiatrist.

DesFIP -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/13/2009 5:45:01 AM)
About the cutting and other disorders in teen girls. Rates of suicide among adolescents are 3 to 5 times higher than in the general population. The next big upswing comes in middle age when the hormones begin to ebb. Some people only need treatment during the changing hormone years. The illness is caused by the swings in hormones and goes into remission when the hormones settle down. Does that mean we shouldn't treat a suicidal teen and hope she lives through it? And just shrug our shoulders if she doesn't survive? Not to me. I had an ear infection a month or so ago. Now the odds are that if my ear drum hadn't blown, the infection and resulting fluid would have disappeared within six months. But I chose to go to the doctor, and get antibiotics to clear it up rather than risk permanent deafness. Most people with this would eventually be fine, but a significant minority needs short term treatment to avoid a permanent problem. So yes, many adolescents won't kill themselves with their risky behavior but a significant minority will die or have other lasting results from their behavior caused by this illness. There's no more reason not to treat them and give the individual better odds of living and thriving then there is a reason not to treat the ear infection.

iceness -> RE: mental issues and drugs (11/13/2009 4:13:33 PM)
I have bi-polar and generalized anxiety (plus some OCD tendencies among others). I've been hospitalized and received multiple different kinds of medication and therapy. I've found that a combination of both medication and therapy is the best course of treatment for me. The bi-polar is genetic from my mother, and currently she is on medication and only receives occasional therapy to make sure she's on the right dosages. In regards to types of therapy so far I've found that both Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) and general talk therapy have worked for me.

KillerKitten -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 12:07:54 AM)
My .02 (and no i didnt read the whole thread lol) is this: I'm bipolar and possibly somewhat schizo. I take meds, because when i dont, no matter how hard i try, i cant control my emotions and have other severe issues. When I take them, within a week I'm normally much calmer and more able to handle my mood swings and what have you. However, I do also go to therapy, and would probably not be as well off if i only had one or the other. Um, I believe the doc was the first to suggest the meds. KK

RumpusParable -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 5:57:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel I have a question i see so many people when it seems like a vast amount of people on the boards claim some type of mental issue and they take drugs for their mental issues and the advocating of same on here is like watching commercials on TV for same. I don't have any mental issues that i know of, so i am coming from a position of ignorance, but could someone explain to me why drugs seem to be many times the treatment of choice versus intense therapy? I realize doctors push drugs nowadays moreso than not, but could someone explain why you would rather take drugs than not and instead use intense therapy for mental issues many people seem to be suffering from? Was it you who initiated the idea of drugs or your doctor? angel I can only speak for myself and those I know personally: we've done/do both. But for some illnesses therapy is a method of learning to cope with the illness that will always be there, meds or not, and the meds are the primary help. I have brain damage which caused my disorders, prior to I was fine. No amount of therapy is going to fix my brain damage and the mental illness that comes from it. Medications are able to counter-act some of the damage and make those parts of my brain better functioning. Therapy has been hugely helpful in teching me methods of handling symptoms, but it can't correct the underlying issue. Bipolar disorder is a brain disorder, similar to schizophrenia and temporal lobe epilepsy, where there is an actual physical malfunction of the brain/central nervous system. Moods are just one symptom set, there are many physical symptoms as well. Therapy cannot correct a physical brain disorder like epilepsy and related illnesses. It can just teach you how to deal with having it. Meds are the only thing that can physically affect the physical problem. And, after a while, you learn all you can learn from therapy. There's nothing more at this point for me, personally, to pick up there because I have already learned so much both in and out of it. I've learned the skillsets necessary to be as high functioning as I can be. So that still leaves meds to attack the actual physical problems caused by the brain damage I have. Additionally, meds are often the best place to start because they can quickly correct the problem enough that therapy then becomes an option, whereas often therapy isn't an option or would do no good when the person is in the throws of a major psychotic/delusional/paranoid or other break. Reduce the symptoms first to where they can then get the most out of therapy is often the best and most realistic course.

juliaoceania -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 10:17:14 AM)
My sister was prescribed Zoloft for garden variety depression/anxiety... she spent a year of her life sitting on her ass in front of the internet escaping reality through gaming... She calls it her lost year. The doctor she was seeing took her at her word about self reporting good progress on the drug, unfortunately it was not helping the way she thought it was... sure she wasn't feeling depressed or anxious per se, she also wasn't feeling much of anything else either... Some people report good success with these drugs.... I think it is important to incorporate them with therapy and not just a random prescription like my sister had from her GP....She still suffers from anxiety and depression... just isn't medicated and refuses therapy... On the other hand, I have went to therapy, never took drugs, and therapy did not help at all. Instead I quit smoking 5 years ago, started exercising regularly, and I eat much better. Most important of all, I quit trying to find a way to stop the pain and anxiety and the feelings that life sometimes brings us. I think we believe as a culture that we shouldn't experience unpleasant feelings, we resist them, try to deaden them, and as a result we make matters worse... live it, feel it, explore it, embrace it, it is a part of life... I only truly have become completely anxiety free since I have been living completely alone.. and if I am around anxious people I will again, feel anxious, which leads me to believe I soak up other people's shit. I am attempting to separate my shit from other people's shit... I do not want to live alone the rest of my life....

juliaoceania -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 10:26:55 AM)
quote: I would like to know which form of psychotherapy can cure bi-polar disorder. Or dysthymic mood disorder. Or PTSD (which by the way they are learning can be minimized or even prevented with the use of a beta-blocker medication after the traumatic event). Which counseling method will help SAD (seasonal affective disorder). (There are studies now that show Wellbutrin can actually prevent it.) I was diagnosed with PTSD and never prescribed medication for it..... and I no longer wake up freaked out, although I haven't cured my phobia, I have accepted this and will probably live the rest of my life with that phobia... such is life and I can still be happy. quote: Mental illness is a medical issue and with all dis-ease, the best solutions deal with the totality of a person. In order for mental illness to be completely biological and not cultural, one would have to show that the same mental illnesses occur cross culturally... and while some so occur cross culturally, many do not. And even those who have serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia in other cultures fare far better than here... this is known from anthropological research

HotFaerieMama -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 11:03:37 AM)
okay here's my .02 i have a ton of issues.. i have PTSD and ADD ( and other assorted issues from tying to cope) and i have tried going to a shrink and it didn't work.. i am very reluctant to try meds because i'm a former pillhead i've been in therapy more times than i can count .. but.. it never works out.. so i've found my own ways to deal.. with my issues.. but i do know there are those who need medication.. because some things can't be fixed by therapy... and yes therapy helps those who need it ..

elleX -> RE: mental issues and drugs (2/11/2010 11:04:35 AM)
Good afternoon intense therapy and drugs are two differents things , some time drugs is necessary to reduce anxiety and then make someone more receptive to psychothérapy . medication should be prescribe by a professional who know what he is doing ( a psychiatrist) and therapy should also be given from people that are really skilled to do so in some case like psychotic disorder , a psychothrapy without medication will make things worst ,, and in some other case a cognitive and supportive approach would be sufficient without medication , , i am thinking here about situational crisis hope this help elleX

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