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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 7:03:49 AM

cravinspankin

Posts: 127
Joined: 10/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Wow.. I see this totally differently than everyone else. You waited till the day of the event to get the supplies when you could have gotten them sooner. On top of that, you're the one who asked if you could help, then you didn't! You screwed up.

Exactly what I felt... I had offered to do it, I should have not waited until the last minute to take care of it.

quote:

I'd feel bad, too, if I were you. You can try to make ammends now and ask for what you deserved then although I don't know how long ago this was, so he might have forgotten it by now. I would explain to him that you are already punishing yourself anyway and he can help you through that if he will take control of that punishment. Leave it in his hands.

The next day I was able to speak to Him freely about this. He said it was no big deal to Him, and to not beat myself up about it. I'm not really, still beating myself up over it, just trying to understand my own reaction to the situation.. and to learn to be a better submissive... to serve Him better, or any Dom or Master who ultimately may take ownership of me.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 7:49:34 AM

cravinspankin

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I have red with great interest all your responses, and want to thank each of you for doing so. There is some good insight and suggestions here.
After reading them, and taking some time to ponder it all, it seems that perhaps my reaction to the lack of a harsher response from him is actually a need in me for someone to take greater control and ownership over me than He or anyone else is ready to assume at this time.
He's told me he moves very slowly in relationships. And he does, lol.
He encourages me to see others, and I am seeing another Dom from time to time. The second one knows I'm seeing the first one as well... I keep no secrets from either.
While I guess i should be grateful that none are pushing me into a commitment before we both know it's right... sometimes it's a little frustrating when they're saying it's ok to see others, when what i really want is to be owned.
Guess I just need to learn some patience.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 7:54:20 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin
sometimes it's a little frustrating when they're saying it's ok to see others, when what i really want is to be owned.
Guess I just need to learn some patience.

I can understand the frustration. I know when I have to decide between having a date with one of my partners or the other (sometimes you can't do group dates which is what I usually do), it can be very frustrating when BOTH of them say "I'm fine with whatever you choose, just do what you will enjoy most."

Yeah, that's great, and I'm blessed to have such understanding partners, but someone I just wish someone would say "Yes, you need to be with me." The ironic part of course being that good partners don't do that and the reason I love them is that they really do want me to just be happy as I can.

Don't trap yourself into feeling low because you aren't getting the attention or being dominated how you want to be. Communicate with everyone directly how you are feeling and let them react as they will.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 8:45:28 AM

KnightofMists

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Assumption: your relationship is an informal D/s relationship. In that I mean you haven’t been formally collared and much of your relationship is still in the discover stages. There might not even be formal negotiations with regards to limits and boundaries. In particular it is very likely you have not formal and clear understanding of the process of Correction and punishment in the relationship.

Goals: You need to keep in mind the primary goals and expectations that existed. Your goal was indeed to serve the Dom in question. The expectation was that you would provide the proper candles for the demo which would fulfill your goal to him. But, what were his goals and expectations. His goal was not to be served by you! His goal was to provide an educational Demo and he expected to be able to do that as he wanted and committed too.

Results: He fulfilled his goal! You did not!

So in effect you are asking to be punished for not achieving your Goal. Your mind set and perspective is centered on yourself and not on the Dominant! You are in effect being selfish and manipulative in asking for punishment so you can feel better at failing to achieve your own goal. Punishment in this case is only going to reinforce that you can fail. You looking to feel better and you would be manipulating the Dominant to do that by asking to be punished!

It is one thing to ask to be punished when your choices cause the Dominant to fail in his goal. It’s another thing all together when you’re asking to be punished because you failed in your goal. In the first case, by asking to be punished, you are expressing regret and sorrow, but more importantly you are showing acceptance that the Dominant will be able to let go of resentment and disappointments in you. The punishment can become an act of reconciliation and forgiveness for both of you. In the latter case, the issue is with the submissive and only the submissive. Drawing in the dominant to this is manipulating the situation so that the submissive can forgive themselves. For the dominant has nothing to forgive in the submissive.

Your desire to look for a reaction or punishment is nothing more than you looking for a way to forgive yourself for your screw ups. I think Lucky once again has provide a sound line of advice….

quote:

I'd deal with it by directly talking to him. Telling him "I still feel really guilty over this. I know it's just me being selfish and self-centered and making my feelings more important than the situation probably calls for, but this is how things are. Do you have any advice?"

This advice shows that you understand it’s all about you… and that it’s is wrong. But you are seeking his help to overcome the issues and learn to forgive yourself for your poor choices. You made the errors not him! His goal was achieved! Don’t make your goal HIS!

I will offer this further advice as another option:
I would suggest that you list what you did wrong that lead to the failure of your goal. Consider the other actions or non-actions you could of taken to change the outcome and fulfill your goals. Then after you have done this… share it with him! And then ask “Sir, will you allow me another opportunity to serve you so I can demonstrate that I have learned from my failure and that I can achieve my goal to serve you?”

sometimes the best way to forgive oneself - is to have another opportunity to succeed. Forgiveness is in the future.. NOT THE PAST!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/9/2006 8:46:40 AM >

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 2:08:57 PM

Padriag

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Cravinspankin, you describe something I've seen frequently in this lifestyle... the need for punishment and/or discipline. Over the years I've encountered a number of submissives that felt a need to be strictly discipline and/or punished for any perceived infraction. This sometimes caused me problems, I was raised a gentleman and I tend to have a forgiving nature when it comes to the little things, but I found this at odds when dealing with certain submissives who did not want to be forgiven, not even for the little things. Rather they wanted to earn their forgiveness for virtually everything through discipline. KoM zero's in on this, its about goals, or more precisely about expectations.

The lesson I learned from it is just how important a role punishment and discipline play in D/s relationships. Not only is it necessary for many submissives to be able to forgive themselves for perceived wrongs (it is as much about earning forgiveness from themself as it is earning it from the dominant) its also an important way many submissives feel the expression of dominance. When the level of discipline isn't what you were expecting, you end up feeling disappointed, confused, and uncertain.

It took me quite a few years to figure out what was happening in my own relationships. I had several submissives walk out of relationships, all the while speaking very highly of me which seemed a contradiction (if they liked me so much why were they leaving?). It came back to me being too much of a nice guy, I was not disciplining them enough, I was not being firm enough and strict enough. In short, I was not disciplining them when they felt I should have and it left them with feelings about the relationship they didn't know how to deal with and often didn't know how to express.

Generally it doesn't work to ask for punishment because that "feels" wrong, the submissive wants the dominant to hand it out, to be strict and firm, to enforce the boundaries and structure of the relationship... they want to feel that expression of dominance without having to ask for it. If they have to ask for it it raises little questions about who is in charge.

As for myself, I had to learn to find where the balance was. I'm still a nice guy, still a gentleman, and that will always be part of my nature. But I learned through experience that I can be a nice guy and at the same time be strict about things and not hesitate to punish for any infraction. Such punishments don't have to be anything major... you don't have to hand out the proverbial "30 lashes" for being 3 min late or some other minor infraction. The punishment should fit the "crime", and I've found I can even have a little fun with it. For example, if I understand correctly, Cravinspankin, you got the wrong kind of votive candles, correct? What scent candle do you hate the most? Go buy 10 of them and light them in your home today so that the house is filled with that scent. Put a little card in front of each candle that says,"I will remember to buy the right kind of candles." Simple, slightly humorous, but a fitting punishment... and I bet you'd remember to buy the right kind of candles next time too!

Dominants don't always understand all these dynamics. Its not like submissives or slaves come with an owners manual ya know. One of the positive things I have to say about the Leathermen and certain established groups is that they did an effective job of educating new dominants about these kinds of things. For those of us who came into this on our own, its been a much more difficult learning experience. But that's the nice things about the internet is that it has provided a place where people can read and learn... assuming those of use who have experience share it.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 3:09:47 PM

Submotive

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quote:

sometimes it's a little frustrating when they're saying it's ok to see others, when what i really want is to be owned.
Guess I just need to learn some patience.

Submission = what? So often i enter a situation with the hidden agenda of what i really want the result to be - whether that be how, why and when i should be punished or anything else. The deepest challenge for me in submission is learning to surrender this hidden agenda and accept that His will is what i'm submitting to, not some manipulation of His will by me. It's an ongoing lesson for me.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 4:46:54 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Perhaps he is simply a very understanding man, knowing you cannot be held accountable for certain things beyond your capacity to control. It seems to me you did your best to obey and ran against an impossible set of obstructions: lack of time and the unavailability of a particular object. If so, that is perhaps what justifies the lack of corrective action being taken. Your spirit was certainly there, and to punish you for this would be akin to punishing you for the bad weather.

Very well said.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/9/2006 6:19:47 PM

RiotGirl

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MT my first repsonse to the post was going to be to the OP to tell her.. i understand what she's saying. That wierd odd need. Unexplainable.. Yet you went and explained it almost perfectly. Makes sense.

And Padriag.. i think you have the right of. i sincerly thank you both for sharing!!

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/9/2006 6:30:04 PM >

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/10/2006 6:37:11 PM

ChainedExistence

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Sometimes punishment is cathartic- You NEED it as a way of purging strong negative emotions so that you can feel open to being loved, or deserving of someone's favor. I know, for me, I feel great guilt over doing anything displeasing to Master. The punishment offers me a release from that guilt in a way that sometimes simple words like " I forgive you" or " try to do better" simply cannot. I'm not saying he has to do this every time for me to be feel forgiven and able to move on, but at times a strong measure is simply the best cure for the guilt and bad feelings I have inside.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/10/2006 10:43:41 PM

MsPurrmeow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiava
Maybe, just maybe.........
The punishment is in letting you feel the guilt?

I agree with this. He's just being practical and not gettin himself tired out while doing so.

From another point of view, though, this is about you and YOU needing to decide what to do with the guilt. This guilt is inside you. You put it there, and you are feeding it. If you were a surrendered slave, then the guilt would be in his power. If he says not to feel guilty about it, you'd have to let it go. This is about your own mental health at this point.

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/10/2006 11:00:02 PM

kittysaysMEW

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quote:

shi

i tend to agree with the above posts. the guilt in itself is a punishment...and he knows that you did all that you could so why further punish you than you are already doing to yourself.

if you truly feel the need to get over it beg for forgiveness then move forward
be safe and smile
kitty

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RE: confused by need for a reaction or even punishment - 3/12/2006 9:56:41 AM

ImpGrrl

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Your desire to be chastised/punished for this serves *your* view of how this relationship should look. Obviously he doesn't see it the same way.

Whose views take precedence?

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