RE: vote on europe!!!

RE: vote on europe!!! (Full Version)

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SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 2:05:03 PM)
The second time, the first time they rejected it. So basically they'll just keeping asking the same question until they say yes which isn't a true referendum. It's instead similar to what a child does when it wants something and the parent continuously says no and then gives in.

Moonhead -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 2:46:26 PM)
That's a bit irksome, then.

Politesub53 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 2:51:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u A majority of African Americans have their roots in Africa... Everybody, period, has their roots in Africa. [8D]

Politesub53 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 2:53:58 PM)
Guess who Brown recently signed up to advise him on the sell off of public assets in the UK ? Guess who used to be his boss years ago ? If you dont know, ask Sid. [8D]

slvemike4u -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 2:55:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u A majority of African Americans have their roots in Africa... Everybody, period, has their roots in Africa. [8D] Come on Polite....you knew where i was going with that.....was it absolutley neccesary to point out that flaw in what was ,up till than, a perfectly reasonable,albeit sarcastic,response to a silly statement?

Politesub53 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 3:00:46 PM)
Mike I have always thought of you as flawless, so spotting one was a bonus my friend. Look on it as weird British humour....lol

slvemike4u -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 3:07:06 PM)
Me flawless......not that is weird british humour....lol

thishereboi -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 4:51:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: frazzle I admit to knowing little about this treaty. we werent told. we do know that countries objected and it was changed. it has just been signed by all. and we as Uk citizens have had no say Sooooo............. Okay................you admit to knowing very little about the subject of your own thread? I wondered about that also, and she is mad because she couldn't vote on it?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 5:09:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: estah The EU is a German conspiracy to get control of Europe and then the world. Yeah, well, just keep in mind how that turned out the last time you guys tried it!

pahunkboy -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/6/2009 6:57:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: estah The EU is a German conspiracy to get control of Europe and then the world. More like the city of London/Rothschild Germany does not want to be bogged down with some of the countries that are in the EU. Or maybe I over look something??

Arpig -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 1:04:22 AM)
quote: we dont have democracy in the \|Uk anymore its a dictatorship You have always had a dictatorship. The PM of the UK is constitutionally the most powerful person on the planet...there is pretty much nothing he can't do. He exercises all the power that Henry VIII did...ALL of it, none of it has been removed, it was just transferred from the monarch to the PM. You get to decide who is your dictator, but that's it, once in he is in charge and there are no practical limits to his power, never has been. As long as he can carry the Commons (not that difficult given the degree of party control) he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

Justme696 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 1:07:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: estah The EU is a German conspiracy to get control of Europe and then the world. Yeah, well, just keep in mind how that turned out the last time you guys tried it! History learns they had a lott of good tries also. And which country did win a war in the last years? I don't think it is really possibly to win a war anymore...because it isn't allowed to break/crush an enemy. Tv/Radio and all kind of organisations are watching the armies..to not do "bad" things. That is why the shitty wars take so long and don't end.

Politesub53 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 1:23:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: we dont have democracy in the \|Uk anymore its a dictatorship You have always had a dictatorship. The PM of the UK is constitutionally the most powerful person on the planet...there is pretty much nothing he can't do. He exercises all the power that Henry VIII did...ALL of it, none of it has been removed, it was just transferred from the monarch to the PM. You get to decide who is your dictator, but that's it, once in he is in charge and there are no practical limits to his power, never has been. As long as he can carry the Commons (not that difficult given the degree of party control) he can do whatever the fuck he wants. I am suprised at this Arpig, it shows little understanding UK law and politics or history. As for comparing the PM with Henry the Eighth, thats wide of the mark, to put it mildly. The role and title of Prime Minister evolved over 300 years. It is only recently that prime Ministers have started the obnoxious role of appointing cronies into positions of power. In fact early PMs didnt use many of the powers, or indeed the title that they held. The fact still remains that every four years the public get the chance to vote the PM out ( Roll on May ) Blair and Brown have started to dismantle some of the checks and balances, and although many voters are against hereditary House Of Lords, instead we get the cash for honours fiasco, where titles are passed like sweets to Labour supporters. In this respect I cant see the Tories being any different, sadly. If you wish to see how a governing organisation, where everyone holds equal power manages to pass legislation, just look at the shambles that is the EU. The Lisbon Treaty took 10 years to come to fruition and it still hasnt been passed. Consequently minor laws are pushed through with no real consequence for the voters of Europe.

Arpig -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 1:34:42 AM)
just what limitations are there in law to the PM's power? Where are the constitutional limits? As I said, as long as he can carry the Commons (and to a lesser extent the Lords) he can do whatever the fuck he wants. And comparing the PM to Henry VIII is not wide of the mark, it is dead on. What happened to the powers Henry had...they didn't go away, they were not restricted by a constitution, they were transferred to the PM, in full. In theory, the monarch can decide to exercise those powers personally again any time she wants. I am not talking about what is practical, but what is theoretical. there are no theoretical limits to the power of the Crown in the UK other than those in Magna Carta, and a few other medieval charters. What there is is a lrge amount of tradition and usage, as well as the concepts of precedent in common law which inhibits the Crown (and the PM is part and parcel of the crown - remember, it really doesn't matter who you elect, the PM is appointed by the Queen, and she is under no obligation to appoint the "winner" of an election - look at Churchill's appointment in 1940 - no election, just a backroom deal to gain him support of the House) from exercising its full powers. People often refer to the POTUS as the "Most Powerful man in the World" but he is nearly powerless in a constitutional sense next to the PM of the UK (or even the Canadian PM).

Moonhead -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 4:40:16 AM)
A couple of points: one there is a constitution limiting the PM's powers, and two, the POTUS is a lot more powerful than any PM we've had over here since the end of the second world war. Britain no longer has the money or the military forces it used to during the Victorian era, whereas America has a lot more of both.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 5:34:27 AM)
Isn't America in massive debt like the rest of us? I'm not actually sure where all the money is right now at this point in time in the world. It's actually quite simple in everyday life: if you are in debt you can't buy stuff but if you are a government in debt you can buy stuff and keep increasing your debt. Then you start selling government bonds and people say “bonds? I don't want to buy your debt because I already have all of your money so why would I want to buy your debt with your/my money I have?” I'm not an economist by something like this happens.

Moonhead -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 5:40:31 AM)
I think the American economy is largely based on IOUs at the moment, but it is in slightly better shape than ours.

Arpig -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 9:54:11 AM)
quote: A couple of points: one there is a constitution limiting the PM's powers, and two, the POTUS is a lot more powerful than any PM we've had over here since the end of the second world war. Britain no longer has the money or the military forces it used to during the Victorian era, whereas America has a lot more of both. What constitution? What limits are there on the PM's powers...please show me one. In terms of actual physical power, yes the US has more, but in terms of Constitutional power to act, the PM has far more.

Moonhead -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 10:15:11 AM)
Wki on the UK's "unwritten constitution". There's a very obvious example of a check on the PMs power discussed during the bit about the EU: we're obliged to respect EU guidelines on human rights and the like, or at least pretend that we do. The Hague is considered a superior legislative power to the British government, and there are legal precedents in British law asserting that.

Politesub53 -> RE: vote on europe!!! (11/7/2009 11:03:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig just what limitations are there in law to the PM's power? Where are the constitutional limits? As I said, as long as he can carry the Commons (and to a lesser extent the Lords) he can do whatever the fuck he wants. And comparing the PM to Henry VIII is not wide of the mark, it is dead on. What happened to the powers Henry had...they didn't go away, they were not restricted by a constitution, they were transferred to the PM, in full. In theory, the monarch can decide to exercise those powers personally again any time she wants. I am not talking about what is practical, but what is theoretical. there are no theoretical limits to the power of the Crown in the UK other than those in Magna Carta, and a few other medieval charters. What there is is a lrge amount of tradition and usage, as well as the concepts of precedent in common law which inhibits the Crown (and the PM is part and parcel of the crown - remember, it really doesn't matter who you elect, the PM is appointed by the Queen, and she is under no obligation to appoint the "winner" of an election - look at Churchill's appointment in 1940 - no election, just a backroom deal to gain him support of the House) from exercising its full powers. People often refer to the POTUS as the "Most Powerful man in the World" but he is nearly powerless in a constitutional sense next to the PM of the UK (or even the Canadian PM). So youre telling me Gordon Brown can have his wife beheaded, or jail opponents with no trial, or raise taxes and pay them to himself ? You really need to have a read up on consitutional monarchy. The government advised the king to appoint Churchill in 1940, not the King deciding who would be PM. Chamberlain was instrumental in Churchill getting the post, King George wanted to appoint Lord Halifax. The Queen cant appoint the PM in the manner you are suggesting, she basically waves through whoever leads the party with the most votes. There was a case where she named Harold Wilson as PM, this was due to no overall majority. The link below clarifies things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty%27s_Government

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