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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 11:20:20 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

By the way, "There's no possible way we can have half the population on social security while the other 25% are on some kind of government assistance.", invest in a calculator.




Reading the context, I bet it's more likely a grammar issue than a math issue; no calculator needed.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 11:20:40 AM   
Sanity


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If the half trillion dollar cut to Medicare can really be entirely culled from "waste" then why hasn't all that waste been cut already. And isn't it a bit scary that government programs can so casually generate that kind of enormous waste?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I really think thats all people wanted in the beginning.  Was affordable health care.  Not FREE health care.  Gov't selling insurance (whether it is initially higher than a private insurance) will still keep the competition as the gov't will subsidize and people will move to whats more rational and reasonable "if" the insurance companies play by the rules (its all up to them, according to the link Sanity outlined, from the link tazzy posted).

Eliminating medicare waste (which isn't the same thing as cutting benefits, glad thats finally being rationally realized, too) will indeed help pay for it all.

That the bill is projected to reduce some of the deficit is a good thing.  I doubt seriously, anyone with good sense expected health reform to put all our economic woes back in balance.

I'm hopeful.



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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 11:31:50 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If the half trillion dollar cut to Medicare can really be entirely culled from "waste" then why hasn't all that waste been cut already. And isn't it a bit scary that government programs can so casually generate that kind of enormous waste.



I don't know.

Maybe you should ask the Republicans who were in control of Congress for 12 years and the White House for eight.

Who suddenly awoke from their deep slumber to just now propose a health reform bill.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 11:33:27 AM   
AnimusRex


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The bill may be flawed- but it is the best, and only serious plan on the table.
The GOP held the levers of government for the better part of the last 3 decades, and not once made universal health care access a priority.

So to come back now and wail "We really want to cover everyone, honest" is nonsense.

< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 11/8/2009 11:34:04 AM >

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 12:27:47 PM   
Sanity


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I suspect that the half trillion dollar cut to medicare can't be cut from "waste" is the point (not that politicians would lie or anything). But if it hasn't been trimmed from waste yet where's the proof that it will be. Its either going to be cut from Senior's benefits (most likely) or its going to be additional deficit spending or its going to come from our pockets, and the last two alternative would further weaken the economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If the half trillion dollar cut to Medicare can really be entirely culled from "waste" then why hasn't all that waste been cut already. And isn't it a bit scary that government programs can so casually generate that kind of enormous waste.



I don't know.

Maybe you should ask the Republicans who were in control of Congress for 12 years and the White House for eight.

Who suddenly awoke from their deep slumber to just now propose a health reform bill.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/8/2009 12:29:31 PM >


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 12:35:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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8% payroll tax on employers who don't provide health care coverage. Median wage in the US ~ 50k. Cost of the tax, $4,000 per employee. Cost of health care coverage ~ $9,000 per employee. Good bye private insurance.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 1:37:36 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Baucus said in his statement that the deal amounted to an $80 billion reduction in Medicare drug costs for senior citizens over the next 10 years.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/21/us.health.care/index.html

Here is a part of it



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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:02:37 PM   
Sanity


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No, if you'll read the article you'll learn that the evil capitalist pig pharmaceutical companies have agreed to reduce out-of-pocket expenses to Seniors themselves, and that its not going to reduce Medicare expenses at all.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Baucus said in his statement that the deal amounted to an $80 billion reduction in Medicare drug costs for senior citizens over the next 10 years.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/21/us.health.care/index.html

Here is a part of it




< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/8/2009 3:09:35 PM >


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:07:20 PM   
Sanity


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quote:


House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate


WASHINGTON – The glow from a health care triumph faded quickly for President Barack Obama on Sunday as Democrats realized the bill they fought so hard to pass in the House has nowhere to go in the Senate.

Speaking from the Rose Garden about 14 hours after the late Saturday vote, Obama urged senators to be like runners on a relay team and "take the baton and bring this effort to the finish line on behalf of the American people."

The problem is that the Senate won't run with it. The government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the Senate.

(Full article here).


(Doh!)




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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:09:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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If medicare is picking up part of the tab, of course it will.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:17:12 PM   
Sanity


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No, tazzy, thats not what "out of pocket expenses" means. According to your article the drug makers are cutting costs that the Seniors themselves have to pay, not Medicare.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If medicare is picking up part of the tab, of course it will.


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:17:35 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

If the half trillion dollar cut to Medicare can really be entirely culled from "waste" then why hasn't all that waste been cut already. And isn't it a bit scary that government programs can so casually generate that kind of enormous waste?


The difference between "fraud", "waste", and "the profit motive" is hard to discern especially when about 20% of the population is organized to hide the tentacles.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 3:30:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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Amid concerns about the fast-rising expenditures on health care, the key House bill cuts $539 billion from Medicare payments over 10 years, according to an analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation. The Senate Finance Committee bill cuts $460 billion.

Medicare Advantage

The single biggest target for cuts is Medicare Advantage, a popular program in which the government pays insurers to provide Medicare services.

And that prompts the biggest single worry, shared by key Democrats, that the overhaul will actually result in seniors losing some extra benefits that insurers offer, along with basic Medicare services.

The House bill reduces future payments to this program by $156 billion, the Senate bill by $123 billion.


Payment reductions
Another prime target are the future expected increases in Medicare payments to hospitals and other care providers.

By paying less than the predicted increase, the House bill would save $196 billion and the Senate bill $182 billion.

Health industry trade groups agreed to the reductions earlier this year, saying they could afford them by working more efficiently and by switching from paper to digital record-keeping.

Hospitals, which represent the biggest cost of Medicare, have said they are willing to forgo more than $80 billion in Medicare payment hikes.

Improving care
Other savings come for a variety of proposals in the two bills to change the way health care is delivered and paid for by Medicare over time.

One proposal sets up "accountable care organizations" of doctors, nurses and others to reduce costs, at an estimated $4.9 billion savings.

Another would encourage hospitals to reduce patient readmissions soon after release, saving as much as $19 billion.

And both bills take aim at home health care agencies. The House bill cuts payments $34 billion over 10 years, the Kaiser Family Foundation found.

Past experience
The cuts to Medicare might seem dramatic, said Tricia Neuman, a Medicare expert at the Kaiser Family Foundation, but past experience shows Medicare can afford it.

In 1997, Congress cut 12 percent from Medicare, compared with the House bill's 3 percent cut and Senate bill's 5 percent.

"We didn't see hospital closures," Baker said. "We didn't see people being turned away for Medicare services."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/lawmakers-eye-medicare-trims-to-pay-for-health-overhaul-1.1499818

Maybe that helps.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:30:20 PM   
Sanity


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Now might not be the ideal time to plan on raiding the Medicare budget - millions of baby boomers are just beginning to reach retirement age.

Maybe somebody should tell Congress.

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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:31:53 PM   
tazzygirl


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Congress knows, as so do i, since im on the tail end of that age group. 80 million... lots of people... 45 and up...

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:34:17 PM   
Sanity


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And they're projecting budget cuts.

They must think we're stupid.



quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Congress knows, as so do i, since im on the tail end of that age group. 80 million... lots of people... 45 and up...



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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:36:08 PM   
slvemike4u


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I thought it was funny....others might have thought it was mean spirited......so I deleted it.


(that was just too easy)

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 11/8/2009 4:38:46 PM >


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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:38:04 PM   
tazzygirl


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Not at all. We are healthier than our parents. Our children will, hopefully, be healthier than we are. Medicine improves. Cuts have been approved by Hospitals and such, per my earlier post. You may be surprised at where money can be saved once someone decides to really look.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:39:14 PM   
tazzygirl


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bad mike!

thats not how to go about getting a spanking!

( and i have a good idea what you said)

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Health Care Bill passes the House! - 11/8/2009 4:42:15 PM   
slvemike4u


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grrrrr....I really wanted that spanking....it's just the 2 week time out I'm trying to avoid!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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