What do I really want? What really matters? (Full Version)

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angeldmort -> What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 3:48:51 AM)

Maybe this is too general to be BDSM, but the thread the other day got me thinking.  Something about it really bothered me, and it took me a bit to get a finger on what. I still have more to consider, but part of it was this -
"I tried everything, flowers, chocolates, lingerie, slap up dinners in 5 star restaurants, romantic getaways"
He really belived that was "everything." He really felt that these were marriage savers.

He makes a case for how women don't want to settle down,  and instead have short relationships or one night stands, live alone, etc.  They get jobs and aren't dependent on men to fulfill them or support them.  "Many of them is quite frank about it and say that for them having children is important, but they value their independence to high."  "many of them will, to the world, say that they just haven't meet mr. Right yet. But in reality they set the bar so high for mr Right that he don't exist."
So… they live the way they want to, get what they need, but apparently they are lying to themselves and the world about why and whether they are happy with it.

This just sounds to me like single women are starting to live more like single men have for a long long time.  They choose something other than the role that was handed to them, one that they believe satisfies them, but this is somehow wrong.  
I think the reason this idea bothers me is that I've been there, and problem seems to be that if women aren't DEPENDENT on men, if they don't NEED a man, then they will only have  a man around when they WANT him and it's scary to consider having to work hard enough to make someone actually like you when you are used to having the easy out. I haven't been in the Lifestyle that long, but just like vanilla life, it seems that the men who cry loudest against this trend are the ones who are the least willing to consider what a woman wants or make that effort to provide it. Listed as sub or Dom, they seem to resent that a woman doesn't automatically want to  give them what they want. They don't want to work for it, while they expect the woman to want to work to give it to them.  

I understand that this was the female role for most of their lives. As Blanche Black says, it's only as technology moves forward that women can move into positions that let them be independent and therefore demand better treatment.  I did this a couple years ago, and yet I'm still beset by the constant attempts by men to make demands, and their expectations that I shouldn't want to choose for myself. 

So, why DO I want a man? I have a good job. I have my own space, which I can clean or not clean, and I can cook or not cook, and I buy my own flowers and my own chocolate and my own lingerie. (It works out - I always get what I actually like and my pretties always FIT!) I can eat out anytime, really. I can pay for my own romantic getaway if I want it. So why do I need anyone?  

Two words.
Limbic regulation.  

I can get laid anytime. I can walk out my door and have someone willing to do me any way I want.  I, as most women, have to literally fend off pushy men who want access to my body and my time.  I have more offers than I can count for kink of every flavor.  

I need more. I need something I can only get from someone that genuinely likes me. I need those warm touches when I know he has no interest in getting laid that day, and the hugs that aren't foreplay. I need to be kissed because he just felt like kissing me. I am with DarkBastard because when he hugs me, he leans his head down on top of mine and he squeezes me like he never wants to let go. (GAWD he gives great snuggle.) He buries his face in my neck while we watch tv. When we play, he looks at me in a way my ex hadn't for years. Which is why he's an ex, and DarkBastard is here.  

When he stops looking at me that way, we'll part. When he stops touching me like I'm precious, this will end.  If we never played kinky games again, if we never had sex again, if I never got to spank or if he never kneeled again, it would be secondary to what I really NEED from him. The only thing I can't give myself is that look, that touch, that energy, and I can't get it from a stranger.  I cant get it from someone who doesn't really care. And I can't feel it if the giver is only there to get something. I feel it. I feel that difference - it's energy being taken instead of given. It sucks you dry and drags you down and leaves you empty. I can't want someone who wants something FROM me, rather than wanting me, the whole me, and nothing but me.  

Every book I've read and every web page and every bit of advice I've had on this kind of play says you have to have that connection. When strangers write me saying they want me to own them, I have to wonder who could go there without that feeling - I could beat anyone, if they weren't annoying, but I could never submit to anyone or touch anyone intimately without feeling some of that for them FIRST. I couldn't want to. The idea makes my skin crawl.   

Size, shape, physical appearance, financial standing, property & possessions and profession… none of these make a dent in this need. They are inconsequential. All of them seem to be the main focus of the strangers that write me, and of the thread that got under my skin. What they bought, what they look like. If those are what matter to them, then they've reduced their partner to a shell; a walking doll or automaton who's personality, who's essential SELF is without value.  

Yes, I look like I do for a reason, and it makes him happy. But I need to believe that if someone else stole my skin and inhabited my body, he'd notice. That he wouldn't want this body without me in it. I need to feel that I matter more than my face or the spankings I give or what I do for him.  No amount of flowers or chocolate will ever be equal to that.




DesFIP -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 3:59:31 AM)

[sm=agree.gif]   [sm=agree.gif]   [sm=agree.gif]

If he doesn't want to know, doesn't come to know my authentic self, and like me as much for my flaws as for my better parts, then he wouldn't be someone I could love, want and need. And that's what I need him for, to know and love all of me.




DarkSteven -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 4:07:53 AM)

Lovely post.

I was shocked/amused by OP's description of strangers who wanted her to own them.  Insta-relationships - no need to add time or effort... 




CarrieO -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 4:56:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angeldmort


I need more. I need something I can only get from someone that genuinely likes me.



Amen!

The problem with this is it means someone has to get past the mask (outer shell)  and discover the person inside.  Sounds cheesy, I know, but I've found so many people are happy with just the superficial.

I also know the only way for someone to discover the person inside is by allowing for the time it takes to do that.  Insta-relationships are like junk food...you crave it/devour it/you're still hungry.

Great post, angeldmort!




Dstryeroflimits -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 5:09:17 AM)

To me it is simple..flowers, 5 star restaurants, chocolates..whatever it was that did not do it for you...it did not meet your needs.  It may work for someone else but not you. Some cliche's still ring true..a relationship works when everyone gets their needs met.

Dstryer




curiouskitten8 -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 5:10:41 AM)

Lovely post! 




ranja -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 5:14:09 AM)

your post is lovely

it is lovely to be loved totally
it is also lovely to love someone without having sex
it is also lovely to show your love for someone by having sex with them
it is even lovely to have sex with your lover to simply relieve a burning need

it is however never lovely to withhold sex from your lover because you suspect them of being selfish... and selfishly expect them to just accept that...

when people first start out together their love and sex usually is... well lovely... because they are so infatuated they connect as often as possible without troubles.
It is at a later date that relations might become fraught and sex together difficult and the whole relationship might fall to pot, and then it might become very difficult to sort things out and using sex as some sort of weapon or reward is just wrong and won't be of the slightest help at all to reestablish a broken connection... it rather drives both parties further away from each other.

and if one of the two parties tries to soften the other with chocolats and flowers, just maybe it is a bit rude to throw them back in their face




ranja -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 5:41:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angeldmort

Every book I've read and every web page and every bit of advice I've had on this kind of play says you have to have that connection. When strangers write me saying they want me to own them, I have to wonder who could go there without that feeling - I could beat anyone, if they weren't annoying, but I could never submit to anyone or touch anyone intimately without feeling some of that for them FIRST. I couldn't want to. The idea makes my skin crawl.   



Also i would like to say that i have not read these books or had this advice...
play with my Husband after years of being very difficult is just great now... but i am a slut and i could submit to others/strangers if He would allow me... the idea does not make my skin crawl at all... rather the opposite

I understand that many women need this deeper connection to a man before they consider him worthy to have sex with... i am not one of these women, my physical needs will win from my need to be mentally understood and accepted as a whore...
sorry whole




SirRussellP -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 6:39:07 AM)

Everyone needs are different and one size does not fit all.  That being said I fall into the group that wants a fuller relationship, so I have to study and learn the submissive of my choice.  This isn't something I do so that I just to know how to manipulate her but to understand what makes her tick and find if there is a potential for a long term relationship.

There still isn't any guarranties that my read will be correct or that the thousands of little things that make us up will actually mesh but I don't know another way.

So for me it is the person that matters not the treatment she offers.




LPslittleclip -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 7:50:12 AM)

for me when i met my future Mistress i was only looking for play, but with time this bond has grown to allow me to be Her collared slave. for my Mistress and i the whole of the dynamic is importaint not just play. how W/we interact in everyday things how i please her in all the little ways like rubbing her feet at the end of the day, doing the laundry cooking snd such. these are the importaint things for my Mistress and i as well




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 10:59:06 AM)

Some desire what you outline and some are in the same place you are... however, some desire the complete OPPOSITE... to NEED... to be DEPENDENT... to be ENSLAVED... to be another's PROPERTY... COMPLETELY.  In short, one size doesn't fit all, and neither is right or wrong; simply a CHOICE... and in some cases, to have made the choice to NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE.  





angeldmort -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 12:23:36 PM)

"however, some desire the complete OPPOSITE... to NEED... to be DEPENDENT... to be ENSLAVED... to be another's PROPERTY... COMPLETELY.  In short, one size doesn't fit all, and neither is right or wrong; simply a CHOICE... and in some cases, to have made the choice to NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE.  "

And I can respect that. I can even imagine feeling that way or wanting to, if I felt that person really cared for me, as myself. DarkBastard has some switch interests, and I feel safe with him, so I can imagine trusting him enough to be helpless.
The only problem I have with it is that men who don't care, who just want to get their dick wet, or who just want the power rush of controlling another person... these men seem to get very hostile and angry at the idea that I don't want it with just anyone.

It doesn't make you a whore, ranja, to be able to enjoy men without a deeper connection.  I do think you have that with him, though, and that trust and connection would carry over if he loaned you out.
Being enslaved still denotes limbic connection - why did you choose your Master over other possibles? Would it lessen your pleasure if he was indifferent, emotionally disconnected when he Dominated you? Do you feel valued, and does it make you feel good? One could have the job, make the money, pay for everything, fix whatever breaks, be uber-control in regular life, and still feel small and submissive and valued by their Dominant. One could also be totally financially helpless and dependent, and feel their Dom is indifferent. And even someone who has and enjoys a cruel, sadistic Dom feels let down if that sadist shows no enjoyment in torturing them. It's not a question of who's in charge.
My only point was that we crave what happens in the limbic system of our brains when we encounter paralinguistic communication. If this falters, everything suffers. We disconnect emotionally, and lose interest in partners who don't provide it, whatever the dynamic.





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 1:33:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angeldmort

The only problem I have with it is that men who don't care, who just want to get their dick wet, or who just want the power rush of controlling another person... these men seem to get very hostile and angry at the idea that I don't want it with just anyone.



Certainly I can appreciate your focus on "men", being a woman and all... but of course there are also WOMEN who "just want to get their cunt fucked" in this dynamic as well; i.e, this outlook is not gender-specific.  Not all are seeking a bond, of sorts.  Some are just in it for the kink.  Which is fine... everyone just needs to find the best fit for them.





sunshinemiss -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 1:38:25 PM)

quote:

When he stops touching me like I'm precious, this will end.


That sums it up quite nicely.

sunshine




angeldmort -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 3:13:03 PM)

Yes, there are women like that. I have occasionally used a man for sex when I didn't love him. The point being made was "these men seem to get very hostile and angry at the idea that I don't want it with just anyone."

Since I never get strange women giving me this attitude of entitlement or obligation to them because of my gender,  your reply seems to missunderstand or ignore what I was saying.





NihilusZero -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 3:30:55 PM)

Some people like their quid pro quos dressed in prettier clothes.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 4:04:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angeldmort

Since I never get strange women giving me this attitude of entitlement or obligation to them because of my gender,  your reply seems to missunderstand or ignore what I was saying.



Wasn't speaking to YOUR specific situation/scenario (as you seem happy in your dynamic)... simply pointing out that both genders CAN act similarly, irrespective of what YOU may have personally encountered. Yours was a public forum post, not a private blog, and so my commentary is general in nature, and not specific to you.  Most behavors are not gender-specific. Hopefully this clarifies so as not to be taken as confrontational.







MsBearlee -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/12/2009 5:31:40 PM)

I pretty much ‘get’ what you are talking about, and I am much the same. My idea of a partner is someone who is whole already…who does not ‘need’ me. I do not want to be anybody’s sunshine. Two people, who do not need each other (‘lean’ on each other for total support), seem to me to make the best partners.

I want someone who does not need me, but who wants me; someone who celebrates our togetherness and finds joy in spending time just sharing our lives. Perhaps that time would be spent shopping or dining at 5-star restaurants, pulling weeds…maybe fishing or camping…or watching a movie or discussing a book. As important as sex and sex-play are…there is more to life.

I think we all have different stuff that turns us on; that said, there is always the ‘down-time’, if you will. What then? Seems to me ya gotta be able to talk! In my mind that is the reason strangers, huge differences in age, maybe upbringing and perhaps differences in economic situations make such a huge difference in whether or not a relationship works. We all like intimacy one way or another…but it is the everyday intimacy that seems to make an actual relationship. Other than that, we're just a couple ships, passing in the night.




ranja -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/14/2009 3:11:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angeldmort

It doesn't make you a whore, ranja, to be able to enjoy men without a deeper connection.  I do think you have that with him, though, and that trust and connection would carry over if he loaned you out.



Don't patronise me please... it was a joke, and besides that i am very capable of deciding myself whether or not i am a whore thank you very much.
And please do not presume to know what i have with my Husband... He would never loan me out... it would entirely break our bond... for Him... not for me but if it is broken for Him then it would be so for me too obviously

You absolutely right to waffle on about this precious bond because it is important, my point is though that this bond between two people can get fraught with troubles and withholding sex will do nothing to reestablish broken connections...

If He would not have sex with me anymore because He feels 'hurt' and 'misunderstood' because i would like to have sex with others as well as Him
Or if i would refuse Him sex because He does not 'understand my needs' and He won't share me out, and He does not cuddle me exactly the right way
then we end up not having sex because of a childish selfish argument... it is stupid and eventually indeed our bond will be broken totally and i will end up looking for it else where...

Obviously it is extremely precious to have this special connection but if you deny the other sex your bond WILL BE BROKEN... now you might argue that it was the others fault for not doing things right, but in the end it does not matter... if you stop having sex (and that is not only fucking) your precious bond will suffer and die.

and about manipulation: WE ALL DO IT!!! it is in our nature, we can't help it, we manipulate even by just being ourselves.
people who deny the other sex manipulate just as much as the people who stand on their head to get some.

I do not see anything wrong with buying someone flowers or giving chocolates
and i think people who get angry when they receive a gift because they assume they only get this because their lover wants to get into their panties have at the very least lost their sense of humour and at worst are arrogant and paranoid and mean and selfish...




DesFIP -> RE: What do I really want? What really matters? (11/14/2009 7:56:07 AM)

But if you give the other sex while you lie there and think about what color to paint the ceiling, you'll break that bond anyway. People can have hostile sex, can use it to hurt their partner. You can do it lovingly even if you don't enjoy it for yourself. And that's a different kettle of fish.

But I've met men who are angry that I don't need to be financially dependent on them, to get back to the op. And I don't understand that. Never have. To me it would seem to be better to know your partner was with you because they wanted to be, not because they felt trapped and had no place else to go. Yet I know this isn't true for many men. My only guess is that if I'm there because I want to be, that means he has to pay attention to my needs so I want to stay there. And this brings us back to the men who just want their needs met and to hell with their partners. Wouldn't it be easier for them to call an escort service once a week?




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