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McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The N... - 11/12/2009 1:27:20 PM   
Brain


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I thought I understood healthcare because I have been reading quite a lot about this issue recently but when I read this article in the New Yorker magazine yesterday I realized virtually all of us have a great deal more to learn. It's very important to read the entire article because some of the things he says are jaw-dropping. I have tried to select a few spots to give people a taste of the story.

McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker

McAllen has another distinction, too: it is one of the most expensive health-care markets in the country. Only Miami—which has much higher labor and living costs—spends more per person on health care. In 2006, Medicare spent fifteen thousand dollars per enrollee here, almost twice the national average. The income per capita is twelve thousand dollars. In other words, Medicare spends three thousand dollars more per person here than the average person earns.The question we’re now frantically grappling with is how this came to be, and what can be done about it. McAllen, Texas, the most expensive town in the most expensive country for health care in the world, seemed a good place to look for some answers.

That explanation puzzled me. Several years ago, Texas passed a tough malpractice law that capped pain-and-suffering awards at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Didn’t lawsuits go down?

“Practically to zero,” the cardiologist admitted.

The primary cause of McAllen’s extreme costs was, very simply, the across-the-board overuse of medicine.

This is a disturbing and perhaps surprising diagnosis. Americans like to believe that, with most things, more is better. But research suggests that where medicine is concerned it may actually be worse. In fact, the four states with the highest levels of spending—Louisiana, Texas, California, and Florida—were near the bottom of the national rankings on the quality of patient care.

It was a depressing conversation—not because I thought the executives were being evasive but because they weren’t being evasive. The data on McAllen’s costs were clearly new to them. They were defending McAllen reflexively. But they really didn’t know the big picture of what was happening.

So here, along the banks of the Rio Grande, in the Square Dance Capital of the World, a medical community came to treat patients the way subprime-mortgage lenders treated home buyers: as profit centers.

In El Paso, the for-profit health-care executive told me, a few leading physicians recently followed McAllen’s lead and opened their own centers for surgery and imaging. When I was in Tulsa a few months ago, a fellow-surgeon explained how he had made up for lost revenue by shifting his operations for well-insured patients to a specialty hospital that he partially owned while keeping his poor and uninsured patients at a nonprofit hospital in town. Even in Grand Junction, Michael Pramenko told me, “some of the doctors are beginning to complain about ‘leaving money on the table.’ ”

As America struggles to extend health-care coverage while curbing health-care costs, we face a decision that is more important than whether we have a public-insurance option, more important than whether we will have a single-payer system in the long run or a mixture of public and private insurance, as we do now. The decision is whether we are going to reward the leaders who are trying to build a new generation of Mayos and Grand Junctions. If we don’t, McAllen won’t be an outlier. It will be our future.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/12/2009 1:29:23 PM   
thornhappy


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Ayyyy!  I posted that last month!

But it was in another thread...

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/12/2009 1:50:42 PM   
AnimusRex


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Yet another reason why the health care market cannot be a "free market";
In a truly free market, consumers and suppliers are free to enter or leave the market; if you think prices of toasters are too high, you simply do without.

No one can leave the health care market; everyone at some point in their life is forced to buy health care. No exceptions. Not everyone will have their house burn down, or get in an auto accident, but everyone will get sick, everyone will die.

You have only the slightest of choices about this- you don't get to choose when you need health care, you can't decide where you will be when you need it, and you can't choose how much of it you will need.

You might live 90 years in perfect health and need nothing more than an occasional checkup; or you might get a chronic illness at 30 and spend 50 years undergoing medical treatments.

Lifestyle choices like smoking and exercise can alter these facts, but only slightly; non-smokers get lung cancer, and Tour de France medalists can get testicular cancer.

The only honest opposition to health care reform is "I am ok letting poor people die without medical care"; The arguments that pretend the marketplace is capable of providing affordable medical care to all are just dishonest.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/12/2009 1:53:19 PM   
Rule


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I did not understand most of that opening post.

Anyway, there are various effective ways to reduce health care costs by at least ninety per cent.

1. Shoot all physicians
2. Make all medication over the counter without prescription
3. Allow, for a period of forty years, only one in a hundred fertile women to have one child. (If multiples, then only one female offspring may reproduce.)
4. Forbid all additives to food
5. Stop producing and importing sugar (actually sugar is a food additive as well)
6. Prohibit kissing except for one's significant other.
7. Forbid the selling of food. (If everybody has to grow their own, they will be too busy to become obese.)

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 12:45:49 AM   
tazzygirl


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huh?...............I understod Brain's post better.

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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 1:32:34 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

huh?...............I understod Brain's post better.

1. Shoot all physicians
I. Physicians cause lots of diseases, called iatrogenic diseases. Without physicians there will be no iatrogenic diseases. Also, most diseases are already nearly cured when people go to see their physician about them, so these visits and the accompanying treatments are superfluous.

2. Make all medication over the counter without prescription
II. Anybody can buy whatever medication that they want, without having to pay a physician for the recipe nor a pharmacy for the medication; this saves lots of money. Also, people that buy the wrong medication and kill themselves will never spend another dime on healthcare costs, as they are dead.


3. Allow, for a period of forty years, only one in a hundred fertile women to have one child. (If multiples, then only one female offspring may reproduce.)
III. If a generation is twenty years, then forty years is two generations. Whatever, after forty years fertile females will no longer be fertile. This population control policy will reduce the population by a factor 200 at least - which will cause a proportional reduction in absolute health care costs.

4. Forbid all additives to food.
IV. Lots of people are intolerant or allergic to various food additives (in Europe called E numbers). Remove the cause - the additives - and health care costs will be reduced.

5. Stop producing and importing sugar (actually sugar is a food additive as well)
V. Sugars cause tooth decay, obesity and its many accompanying diseases, such as diabetes II. Removing sugars from the diet alone will have an enormous effect on overall health improvement.

6. Prohibit kissing except for one's significant other.
VI. Various viruses are transferred by kissing and may cause dozens of different diseases. Limiting kissing will therefore cause the infectious diseases to be transmitted less rapidly, significantly reducing suffering and healthcare costs.

7. Forbid the selling of food. (If everybody has to grow their own, they will be too busy to become obese.)
VII. Already explained. It also has the benefit that unhealthy processed foods will no longer be available. No more MacDonalds and BurgerKing and their ilk.

< Message edited by Rule -- 11/13/2009 1:38:31 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 5:43:57 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

1. Shoot all physicians
I. Physicians cause lots of diseases, called iatrogenic diseases. Without physicians there will be no iatrogenic diseases. Also, most diseases are already nearly cured when people go to see their physician about them, so these visits and the accompanying treatments are superfluous.


Yes, lets not stop there. shoot all health care professionals. nosocomial infections can be a real bitch too. then again, if we do that, your problem of fertility may take care of itself.

quote:

2. Make all medication over the counter without prescription
II. Anybody can buy whatever medication that they want, without having to pay a physician for the recipe nor a pharmacy for the medication; this saves lots of money. Also, people that buy the wrong medication and kill themselves will never spend another dime on healthcare costs, as they are dead.


Vicodin, xanax, valium, anibiotics... oh yeah... great idea... not. we have enough issues with antibiotic resistant bugs without adding to the problem. but, i suppose having a whole new set of junkies wouldnt be such a bad idea... until they need money to buy more. then they become your problem.

quote:

3. Allow, for a period of forty years, only one in a hundred fertile women to have one child. (If multiples, then only one female offspring may reproduce.)
III. If a generation is twenty years, then forty years is two generations. Whatever, after forty years fertile females will no longer be fertile. This population control policy will reduce the population by a factor 200 at least - which will cause a proportional reduction in absolute health care costs.


Hate to burst that bubble, but, im 44, and still fertile.

quote:

4. Forbid all additives to food.
IV. Lots of people are intolerant or allergic to various food additives (in Europe called E numbers). Remove the cause - the additives - and health care costs will be reduced.


And lots of people are full of shit. ever heard of a wasabi allergy?

quote:

6. Prohibit kissing except for one's significant other.
VI. Various viruses are transferred by kissing and may cause dozens of different diseases. Limiting kissing will therefore cause the infectious diseases to be transmitted less rapidly, significantly reducing suffering and healthcare costs.


Best prohibit handshakes, hugging, cuddling... any kind of close contact. The same viruses can be easily transported by air, by hands, ect.


quote:

7. Forbid the selling of food. (If everybody has to grow their own, they will be too busy to become obese.)
VII. Already explained. It also has the benefit that unhealthy processed foods will no longer be available. No more MacDonalds and BurgerKing and their ilk.


Thats a huge assumption, that people are fat because they dont move, or that they eat at a fast food joint. Both simply are not true.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 5:49:38 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

7. Forbid the selling of food. (If everybody has to grow their own, they will be too busy to become obese.)
VII. Already explained. It also has the benefit that unhealthy processed foods will no longer be available. No more MacDonalds and BurgerKing and their ilk.


Care to explain how people like me who live in apartment buildings in the middle of a city are supposed to grow their own food. Oh and cows and the like aren't allowed.


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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 6:02:58 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
Care to explain how people like me who live in apartment buildings in the middle of a city are supposed to grow their own food. Oh and cows and the like aren't allowed.

I guess that you will have to move - or grow fungus in your refrigerator like the muppet Gonzo did.

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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 6:19:38 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yes, lets not stop there. shoot all health care professionals. nosocomial infections can be a real bitch too. then again, if we do that, your problem of fertility may take care of itself.

Quite. Good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Vicodin, xanax, valium, antibiotics... oh yeah... great idea... not. we have enough issues with antibiotic resistant bugs without adding to the problem. but, i suppose having a whole new set of junkies wouldnt be such a bad idea... until they need money to buy more. then they become your problem.

People are addicts because doctors prescribed them the junk in the first place. Shooting the doctors will stop that idiocy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Hate to burst that bubble, but, im 44, and still fertile.

You started menstruating at age 4?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
ever heard of a wasabi allergy?

No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Best prohibit handshakes, hugging, cuddling... any kind of close contact. The same viruses can be easily transported by air, by hands, ect.

I got my herpes from a kiss.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats a huge assumption, that people are fat because they dont move, or that they eat at a fast food joint. Both simply are not true.

Oh, then some of them must get fat magically?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 6:25:03 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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And of course, there are reasons for the high cost.

"There's a collision course of sorts that's been playing out in medicine for the last 25 years. As the costs of health care have consumed more and more of GDP, the system has become unsustainable. Physician salaries bore the brunt of early cost containment with effective pay cuts of 50-60% in real income since the mid 1980's. More recently it's been the patients on the receiving end, with more employers dropping coverage and more people enrolled in high deductible/high copay plans.

An article in the New Yorker Magazine, "The Cost Conundrum - What a Texas town can teach us about health care" profiles McAllen, Texas. McAllen is the most expensive place in the country in terms of annual expenditures on medicare beneficiaries. It illustrates the law of unintended consequences and reinforces the notion that anyone who thinks health care costs will come down with universal coverage is foolish. More coverage = more utilization, particularly when patients do not bare much of the costs themselves out of pocket.

The article also features the behavioral changes of physicians as they've become more entrepreneurial. It's profiled as a negative in the article, but it really should be encouraged. In modern medicine, if you do not run your practice like a business, then your practice will fail. Physicians should be encouraged (when able) to align their entrepreneurial interests with their patients. In many instances this will run you head first into government bureaucracy and established interests as in the case of my office surgery suite. Don't even get me started on the fact that I'd be able to do some procedures in my soon to be accredited office O.R. at 40%+ discounts to Medicare and Blue Cross for what it costs to do in a hospital. You'd think this would be of interest to Medicare and the state of Alabama as it would likely save several hundred thousand dollars annually, but instead it's like talking to a brick wall.

Cosmetic Plastic Surgery practices has been the attentive to economics for a long time, and you're forced to be cost-conscious to maintain that kind of practice. The revenue from the cosmetic procedures I do affords me the opportunity to maintain a busy reconstructive practice on cancer patients."

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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 6:39:51 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yes, lets not stop there. shoot all health care professionals. nosocomial infections can be a real bitch too. then again, if we do that, your problem of fertility may take care of itself.

Quite. Good idea.


Sarcasm is beyond you lol.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Vicodin, xanax, valium, antibiotics... oh yeah... great idea... not. we have enough issues with antibiotic resistant bugs without adding to the problem. but, i suppose having a whole new set of junkies wouldnt be such a bad idea... until they need money to buy more. then they become your problem.

People are addicts because doctors prescribed them the junk in the first place. Shooting the doctors will stop that idiocy.



If you can get drugs without a prescription, how many do you believe will be addicts?

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Hate to burst that bubble, but, im 44, and still fertile.

You started menstruating at age 4?



Nope... 8. 45 nest year, and still going strong. Might wanna recheck your menopause sources.. lol.

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
ever heard of a wasabi allergy?

No.



I was told just last week by 10 people they had one in the restaurant i work in... odd... they give wasabi for allergies.

The "allegry" fascination is driven by people being told to just say... "i have an allergy to____" when they dont like the taste of something. Not all pull this stunt, but a great many do.

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Best prohibit handshakes, hugging, cuddling... any kind of close contact. The same viruses can be easily transported by air, by hands, ect.

I got my herpes from a kiss.



The common cold and flu can be air borne spread, or from hand contact, hugging, ect. Lets not even get into diseases like TB.

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats a huge assumption, that people are fat because they dont move, or that they eat at a fast food joint. Both simply are not true.

Oh, then some of them must get fat magically?


You can get fat on eating far too much meat, grains and vegetables. Or did you miss that fact in biology class.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 6:52:36 AM   
Rule


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Good post, wbud. Far more comprehensible than the OP.

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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 4:33:48 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

[q
2. Make all medication over the counter without prescription
II. Anybody can buy whatever medication that they want, without having to pay a physician for the recipe nor a pharmacy for the medication; this saves lots of money. Also, people that buy the wrong medication and kill themselves will never spend another dime on healthcare costs, as they are dead.


You can do that in Mexico.  And they have a hell of a lot of multi-drug resistant TB due exactly to that.  You could get into the same issue with antibiotic overuse.

While you may think that's not a problem (since the people involved will die), they can take a lot of bystanders with them.

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : T... - 11/13/2009 4:59:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

[q
2. Make all medication over the counter without prescription
II. Anybody can buy whatever medication that they want, without having to pay a physician for the recipe nor a pharmacy for the medication; this saves lots of money. Also, people that buy the wrong medication and kill themselves will never spend another dime on healthcare costs, as they are dead.


You can do that in Mexico.  And they have a hell of a lot of multi-drug resistant TB due exactly to that.  You could get into the same issue with antibiotic overuse.

While you may think that's not a problem (since the people involved will die), they can take a lot of bystanders with them.



And as someone who came very close to losing both legs due to MRSA, its not a "solution" to anything.

(in reply to thornhappy)
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