commitment

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serisa -> commitment (11/12/2009 3:09:39 PM)
it may seem a silly question i know... but to people on here what does the word commitment 'mean'?. Yes marriage means commitment, A Collaring means a type of commitment...... i am interested to know (especially from a Master/Dom point of view what else they see as commitment). Also... if you as a sub say you need a monogomous relationship to a Dom and he embarks on a relationship with you knowing full well what you need want and desire and then he sleeps with someone without your knowledge does this count as cheating if he has NOT made a commitment towards you??. I presume there is some sort of duty of care as to protect you from std's but does it actually count as cheating if the Dom KNOWS what you want but has not formally or verbally 'made a commitment to you?' Do any people on here count sexual fidelity as 'commitment' which is 'given' or allowed by the Dom or in most cases is it presumed unless poly is discussed and agreed upon by the sub and Dom in question?. If a sub wants sexual commitment is it enough for the sub to say that is what she needs or should she actually ask for it i.e 'please can you give me sexual commitment?'. I realise neither of these two former things will guarantee you will get it but is the best way to avoid a 'yes i know what you wanted.... but i never SAID i would give to you' type scenerio' (all too late) from your Dom.... to actually say 'i realise You already know i need want and desire monogomy, but please will you confirm you are happy to give me that?'.... rather than 'presuming' just because he knows what you want that he has any intention or desire to actually even try and give you that? Does anyone see sexual commitment only as a commitment in itself.? As a sub i dont think i have a right to expect sexual commitment but i presume i have a right to ask for it and expect an answer yes or no from my Dom?. If a Dom says after a long period of time (years) together that he does NOT want commitment.... but still want to see you, would it be wise to seek answers to what he counts as commitment? thank you and any thoughts on ANYTHING i have mentioned would be greatly appreciated. i wish you well x

Missokyst -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 3:23:14 PM)
I have the right to expect committment, regardless of whether I am sub, dom or on the fence. I have the right to walk away if I cannot accept that my partner chooses to play elsewhere. And I have the right to be angry when someone who said they were monogamous and committed only to me, fucked someone else, because I don't like lies. Tell me, let me know, and give me warning so I can decide to stick with it or walk away. If they are not willing to communicate about things which I view as important to me.. then they are not the right person for me. If nilla's can choose what works, then why not kinksters?

MasterCord -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 3:31:39 PM)
I had been handed a harsh lesson about committment. There was a time earlier when I thought I had finally found a submissive/slave who truly wanted commitment, who needed the same monogamy I needed. I found after a while together that she did not want that as much as I. It was a tough lesson. It hurt pretty badly. I can't have this sort of relationship casually, and in her defense she committed too early. I now know that you have to put commitment out on the table and discuss it...make sure both people understand what it means to each. It is way too painful to discover that you do not intend the same things, after time has passed and affections and love have been solidified on one side, while dissolving on the other.. I think your views on commitment are excellent OP. I see nothing wrong in your positions. I hope you find what you want and need..... MC

serisa -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 3:35:08 PM)
Thank you Missokyst. So how would you be if you had told him monogomy is what you need, want & desire but He had not VERBALLY said yes that he will give you that type of commitment? Would you expect that if he is not able to give that for him to end the relationship and explain why?... or would you demand (encourage perhaps a better term from a sub... lol) actually verbal answers if he seemed reluctant to give one ?. I think what i am trying to say (sorry if i get confusing at times)... is that if you say thats what you need is that what you should expect unless He ends it?, or is it wise to seek a verbal agreement from Him?

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 3:39:13 PM)
Commitment to me, at least in the very casual sense is where we're talking have agreed to ground rules and have now started a relationship. Or started seeing about building one. And if you tell him what you need and he does not ok it, say Ok I agree, I still do feel it's cheating yes, but it's more also my fault too because I did not get him to say Yes, I agree we're monogomous if we do this. If I have gotten him to say Yes if we do this we're mono and I will not do anything with any one else then hell fucking yes it's cheating. quote: ORIGINAL: serisa it may seem a silly question i know... but to people on here what does the word commitment 'mean'?. Yes marriage means commitment, A Collaring means a type of commitment...... i am interested to know (especially from a Master/Dom point of view what else they see as commitment). Also... if you as a sub say you need a monogomous relationship to a Dom and he embarks on a relationship with you knowing full well what you need want and desire and then he sleeps with someone without your knowledge does this count as cheating if he has NOT made a commitment towards you??. I presume there is some sort of duty of care as to protect you from std's but does it actually count as cheating if the Dom KNOWS what you want but has not formally or verbally 'made a commitment to you?' Do any people on here count sexual fidelity as 'commitment' which is 'given' or allowed by the Dom or in most cases is it presumed unless poly is discussed and agreed upon by the sub and Dom in question?. If a sub wants sexual commitment is it enough for the sub to say that is what she needs or should she actually ask for it i.e 'please can you give me sexual commitment?'. I realise neither of these two former things will guarantee you will get it but is the best way to avoid a 'yes i know what you wanted.... but i never SAID i would give to you' type scenerio' (all too late) from your Dom.... to actually say 'i realise You already know i need want and desire monogomy, but please will you confirm you are happy to give me that?'.... rather than 'presuming' just because he knows what you want that he has any intention or desire to actually even try and give you that? Does anyone see sexual commitment only as a commitment in itself.? As a sub i dont think i have a right to expect sexual commitment but i presume i have a right to ask for it and expect an answer yes or no from my Dom?. If a Dom says after a long period of time (years) together that he does NOT want commitment.... but still want to see you, would it be wise to seek answers to what he counts as commitment? thank you and any thoughts on ANYTHING i have mentioned would be greatly appreciated. i wish you well x

Missokyst -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 3:59:33 PM)
I would assume this was his way of telling me that monogamy was not in the cards. I find people avoid things if they don't want to tell you the truth, rather than outright lie, it is just easier for them. I would not demand he lie to me or make a committment he was not ready for, I would believe my instincts. I would exit. In the initial phases of becoming close these are things that you are either compatible with or not. Always walk in knowing the risks and don't complain when it should have been clear, but you chose to ignore it. We should take responsibility for the choices we make. If I am with someone, we choose monogamy. If they mean nothing to me other than a play partner for the time, I don't care what they do as long as I am safe when I play with them. quote: ORIGINAL: serisa Thank you Missokyst. So how would you be if you had told him monogomy is what you need, want & desire but He had not VERBALLY said yes that he will give you that type of commitment? Would you expect that if he is not able to give that for him to end the relationship and explain why?... or would you demand (encourage perhaps a better term from a sub... lol) actually verbal answers if he seemed reluctant to give one ?. I think what i am trying to say (sorry if i get confusing at times)... is that if you say thats what you need is that what you should expect unless He ends it?, or is it wise to seek a verbal agreement from Him?

breatheasone -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 4:02:00 PM)
quote: if you as a sub say you need a monogomous relationship to a Dom and he embarks on a relationship with you knowing full well what you need want and desire and then he sleeps with someone without your knowledge does this count as cheating if he has NOT made a commitment towards you??. Theres the thing with that... whats highlighted is not one way like that. We would BOTH be "embarking" and so i would make damn sure a commitment WAS THERE before ANY kind of barking took place! (and yes i would say thats cheating)

Lucienne -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 6:27:44 PM)
People commit to each other under the terms of their own choosing. I don't think committing to a relationship with someone means committing to sexual exclusivity unless you spell it out as such. Sure, more often than not, exclusivity is presumed. But I think it's best practices to discuss the issue explicitly. At a theoretical level, I don't think having sexual relations with others is any more of a threat to a committed relationship than spending too much time at work or only socializing with friends (and not your partner). We all have certain expectations of engagement in a relationship. If that level of engagement is not being met, then the couple is incompatible. I have a remote appreciation for why sex with others seems like it's a different scenario. But, realistically and practically, I don't think it matters at the end of the day why your partner isn't giving you the level of engagement that you need. It only matters that s/he isn't.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 6:33:11 PM)
What you have, is a failure to communicate. He communicated by not communicating. You communicated, but not clearly or insistently enough. And you completely missed the neon-lighted, shouting obviousness of his communication to you that he did not intend to be monagamous with you. But he also deceived you. One should never put up with being deceived. Run fast and far, away from this dishonest loser.

lovingpet -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 7:05:10 PM)
I don't take anything that isn't explicitly stated as being firmly agreed upon one way or another. That being said, I think there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. I want input. It may be disregarded, but I want have been heard and I want to know the final result. If one cannot openly discuss the matter and be honest in his/her dealings, then it will damage my trust. As I have said to people who don't quite get it, I may be poly, but I'm not a total slut. As much as I can share a bond with many special people, I also do bond typically to some degree and I need that to be respected. lovingpet

lucylucy -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 7:54:54 PM)
What the word “commitment” means to me: The commitment I have made to my boyfriend is different from the commitment I expect (and have gotten) from him. The commitment I made to him is a promise to be available to him to the best of my ability (and taking into account my commitment to my daughter) in every way—emotionally, physically, sexually, intellectually. The commitment he has made to me is a little different. He has committed to taking care of me, which in practice means that if my needs are met, he can be with someone else sexually. (Yes, defining when “my needs are met” is a tricky one and has been a bit of a problem—we’re working on it.) We don’t plan to marry. We’ve both been married before and neither one of us is interested in going down that road again. There’s no physical artifact (ring, collar, mark) of our commitment and that’s ok with us. What counts as cheating: There’s no universal definition, but in the scenario you describe, the Dom didn’t make a commitment. If he didn’t make a commitment to you, he never said he wouldn’t be with others, right? If I know what someone wants and never promise to give it to them, I don’t think I should be held responsible for not giving it to them. Is sexual fidelity always a part of commitment: No. It isn’t in my relationship. I don’t think it’s EVER safe to assume that a commitment = monogamy unless that has been specified. If a sub wants sexual commitment should she ask for it: Sure, but she needs to be prepared to walk away if the Dom won’t give it and she can’t deal with that. Asking for something never obligates someone to give it to you. If the sub isn’t sure if the Dom has made a commitment that includes sexual fidelity, yes, she damn well better confirm that. I think anyone is a sexual relationship has a right to know if their partner is monogamous (but that doesn’t mean you have a right to know WHO he is sleeping with, unless you’ve negotiated that). Is sexual commitment only a commitment in itself: No, not in my opinion. If a Dom says after a long period of time (years) together that he does NOT want commitment.... but still want to see you, would it be wise to seek answers to what he counts as commitment: Of course, especially if you don’t know what he means. The fact that you’re posting this question indicates that you don’t know what he means. Time to talk. It sounds to me like you’re not sure what kind of a commitment you have from your Dom. You have a right to know exactly what and how he has committed to you. He should be able to articulate it, either verbally or in writing. Then you can decide if the commitment he is willing to make is what you want. If it isn’t, you can leave.

NihilusZero -> RE: commitment (11/12/2009 9:56:13 PM)
It sounds like you both decided to ignore the uncomfortable fact that you weren't compatible on as rather big issue and instead decided to continue to play with partial blindfolds until it dawned on you there were still inner expectations you couldn't get rid of.

DesFIP -> RE: commitment (11/13/2009 5:29:14 AM)
Commitment = doing what you say. If he knows I am only interested in a monogamous relationship yet gets involved with me, while planning all the time to have affairs - he's a cheater. He's lied by omission. He's not honest or honorable. A decent man would not use you, knowing you will find out and be hurt in the end. He's a player. Go get a std scan and take his number off your phone.

leadership527 -> RE: commitment (11/13/2009 8:39:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: serisa ...So how would you be if you had told him monogomy is what you need, want & desire but He had not VERBALLY said yes that he will give you that type of commitment? There are a great many ways to deceive people. Most of them involve telling the absolute truth. It is still deception and it is still just as reprehensible. In my mind, there is no difference between the situation you are describing and if he had signed in blood stating that he would be monogamous with you. If he led you to believe, either through direct verbiage or through the lack of a denial that the relationship would be monogamous then covertly went and did something else... well...

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