RE: Free speech?

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Tempestspet -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 5:07:50 PM)
smiles....thanks Level Tempest's pet jennifer

sissymaidlola -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 5:25:46 PM)
quote: Why do Aggies hate M&Ms? They're too hard to peel. Oh great, lots of cool jokes in the last few posts ... even if they were all about Aggies. [sm=river.gif] Personally, sissy never saw the humor in making fun of marbles. [sm=moon.gif] So sissy thinks that that last joke, for instance, would have been a lot funnier if it had been about a lesbian African American vegetarian bell-ringer from Minnesota (whose redneck mother is Chinese). <giggles> Now, IsHO, THAT would have been damn f*king hilarious! [sm=biggrin.gif] Ahem ... <sissy now doing his best impersonation of Saratov> so what happened to the "Free speech?"* thread? It was around here some place ... Has anyone seen it recently? [8\|] `·.,¸¸,.·´¯"§§ _ sissy maid lola _ §§"¯`·.,¸¸,.·´ To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. - Douglas Adams

Level -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 5:35:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tempestspet smiles....thanks Level Tempest's pet jennifer Quite welcome smiles, I know there's a ton of posts, not always easy to dig through them all. Level

Level -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 5:40:57 PM)
lola, I'm sure it'll resurface soon.......it may be napping at the moment. And you're absolutely right about those aggie jokes, we shouldn't have any more of them. After these two, that is. What is the difference between an Aggie and a carp? One is a bottom feeding scum sucker and the other is a fish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` What is the difference between the Aggies and Rice Crispies? Rice Crispies know what to do in a bowl. Level

sissymaidlola -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 5:46:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: Tempestspet What I haven't seen mentioned yet, and I could be wrong here, is that your right to freedom of speech is not absolute. You may not say absolutely whatever you want, absolutely whenever you want. How many are aware of that? There have been posts regarding speech limits (slander, inciting violence, etc) Yeah, sissy has to admit it, he too started to nod off once Lordandmaster and ownedgirlie got into all that stuff ... kinda heavy, huh? [:(] Still, things quickly picked up again with all those Aggie jokes, didn't they? [:)] On the whole, can't complain really ... [sm=mrpuffy.gif] WOW ... sissy just looked up the official definition of a transvestite. It's a guy who likes to eat, drink and be Mary. Hmm, not sure sissy undestands that description. [sm=confused.gif] Can someone please explain that to sissy? `·.,¸¸,.·´¯"§§ _ sissy maid lola _ §§"¯`·.,¸¸,.·´ To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. - Douglas Adams

Chaingang -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 8:22:19 PM)
Mercnbeth: Is it possible that a combination of Gay + AIDS + diarrhea just isn't funny? Again, if you don't know you just don't know. Do you find it possible that a joke about the way Jews died in gas chambers could be funny? Why or why not? Do you find jokes about black people hung in trees funny? Why or why not? No one survives life, but AIDS is a much shorter death sentence and it's not particularly funny. Diarrhea is one of the known horrific complications of the illness once it defeats a person's immune system. Not funny. BTW, I am not going to say that I don't find humor in some things but I think I have to admit to a limited range of things I find funny. The only thing I could come up with was the movie "Ferris Beuler's Day Off." Most of the characters in the movie have both a negative side and a good side - but no one is dehumanized in my view. Even the overzealous dean or principal of the school isn't dehumanized, he's just the subject of endless pratfall type jokes like the Inspector in the old Pink Panther movies. I'd say everyone in that movie is shown in a humorous light at some point or other and no one is belittled because they are a mere "type." I looked at your list again and I would tend not to read jokes about those types as the subject matter of a joke. I have cats, they are plenty funny when I need a lift. I have a tuxedo cat whose main attack move I refer to as "Death from above" - I never tire of laughing about that.

IronBear -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 10:39:04 PM)
OK edumication time again for this dumb Aussie ..... WTH is an AGGIE????????????????????????

BitaTruble -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 10:41:20 PM)
quote: WTH is an AGGIE???????????????????????? Someone who supports Texas A&M University Celeste

truesub4u -> RE: Free speech? (3/13/2006 10:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: WTH is an AGGIE???????????????????????? Someone who supports Texas A&M University Celeste Never seen Best Little WhoreHouse in Texas with Dolly Parton and Burt Renyolds?... lol oops that was ment for Ironbear.. not you celeste.... lol... sorry

Level -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 2:46:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear OK edumication time again for this dumb Aussie ..... WTH is an AGGIE???????????????????????? LOL IronBear......as Celeste said, an Aggie is a supporter or student of Texas A&M university...."Aggie" is short for "Agriculture", one of the focuses of their school.....there is a long standing "feud" between them and the University of Texas (known as Longhorns), a school I support especially in the way of athletics. Level

Mercnbeth -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 6:13:31 AM)
quote: Is it possible that a combination of Gay + AIDS + diarrhea just isn't funny? Again, if you don't know you just don't know. Do you find it possible that a joke about the way Jews died in gas chambers could be funny? Why or why not? Do you find jokes about black people hung in trees funny? Why or why not? No one survives life, but AIDS is a much shorter death sentence and it's not particularly funny. Diarrhea is one of the known horrific complications of the illness once it defeats a person's immune system. Chaingang, I'd refer you to the thread regarding "Confidence". Confidence is the ability to laugh at yourself and your situation. NYC, where I lived until 2002, was one of the first places where AIDS was a epidemic. Visiting my friends and friends of friends in hospitals was not funny. But many of the jokes they told about themselves and their situation were. Like Guage, I have the ability to differentiate. I feel sorry for the people who instead of seeking humor and a silver lining, dig and analyze until they see the worst. It's a difficult life Ferris Bueller isn't deprecating? The discipline of the school mocked? Because it's pratfall it's excluded? So if an AID's joke had reference to end stage infirmary and the patients inability to walk, to you THAT would be funny? People's sympathy of chronic and maybe terminal disease (Like AIDS) used to get out of classes? Parking lot attendants stereotyped as joy riding thieves? Parent's mocked for their gullible stupidity? The movie even included inferred incest. Isn't the maitre d' a belittled stereotypical gay man? quote: I looked at your list again and I would tend not to read jokes about those types as the subject matter of a joke. Then you don't read any of the humor section? It's a shame, everyone should when they are too serious about themselves and don't have the confidence to smile or laugh at the ironies of life. I'm glad you have a humor outlet with your cat. Be careful if it attacks someone allergic is attacked unless you would find that trip to the hospital humorous.

Chaingang -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 8:20:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I'd refer you to the thread regarding "Confidence". Confidence is the ability to laugh at yourself and your situation. Context matters - and that's certainly one of my larger points. If the OP isn't gay and therefore telling a joke about his own community (which he is not, I just went to look and his profile says he's straight) then he isn't laughing about this from the inside as a member of that community, but rather from the outside and poking fun at what is "other." It's quite hard to say where the lines are drawn but I'd rather people at least attempted to err on the side of consideration for the feelings of others. If a gay man calls another man "faggot" or a black man calls another black man "nigger" - many are still offended because those words have a history beyond the intent of the individual speakers. It's possible that there is something to be said for reclaiming words like "queer" - as in "Queer Nation" - but most people just find that inflammatory anyway. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Ferris Bueller isn't deprecating? The discipline of the school mocked? Because it's pratfall it's excluded? Yeah, I think so - in my own sense of it there is a comedy tradition of the bungler...who could be anyone. Think Marty Feldman. Pratfall humor is when someone - anyone - slips on the banana peel. If the person slipping on the banana peel is gay the pratfall is not any the funnier - or if it is, then it's because the person that laughs harder at the gay man slipping has a hateful prejuidice. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Parking lot attendants stereotyped as joy riding thieves? Parent's mocked for their gullible stupidity? The movie even included inferred incest. Isn't the maitre d' a belittled stereotypical gay man? I think you're stretching here in attempt to show that all humor makes fun of "types" - but I disagree with that assertion. You must distinguish types from situational circumstances that could happen to anyone - hence the term "situational comedy" aka "sitcom." Joy riding thieves? Aren't the main characters doing the exact same thing with one of their father's car which they DO NOT have permission to take? So they are joy riding teenagers then, right? The point is that the car has irresistible allure - we are supposed to identify with all of them. The parents are not mocked. Ferris is just an expert manipulator - which is in my view almost a criticism of him (he is shown manipulating parent, lover, friend, and foe - all alike). By the end of the film we almost "want" him to get caught which is why the race sequence is so exciting. The maitre d', if he is a type, is the quintessential gatekeeper - I don't really recall anything about him that was gay specific (your personal prejudice showing perhaps?). Gay or not gay, he is being made fun of as a gatekeeper - whcih could be anyone in that precise situation. BTW, not that I defend this movie overmuch, I just remember thinking it was reasonably even-handed. Consider the drugged-out guy played by Charlie Sheen who ends up being surprisingly on target with his advice to the character "Jean." I think in small ways all of the characters actually defy expectation in numerous ways. That's also the point of another Hughs movie "Breakfast Club" - that characters that can be easily "typed" defy expectation and all have a human side with which many can relate. Just out of curiosity could you explain the inferred incest bit? I can't recall or figure out any such reference...

incognitoinmass -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 8:56:28 AM)
This is just plain silly. Some people really need to get over themselves.

sissymaidlola -> RE: Argument sketch (3/14/2006 9:20:31 AM)
NO IT ISN'T !! [sm=ugh.gif] Erm ... just one moment, Gauge. Is this only a five minute argument, or the full half hour? `·.,¸¸,.·´¯"§§ _ sissy maid lola _ §§"¯`·.,¸¸,.·´ To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. - Douglas Adams

Mercnbeth -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 9:37:56 AM)
quote: You must distinguish types from situational circumstances that could happen to anyone - hence the term "situational comedy" aka "sitcom." Then if the "offensive" joke, the subject of this diatribe, was told by a cast member of "Will & Grace" it would have been okay because it's a situation comedy that includes gay characters? It would seem to take your position you must be consistent. It is either offensive all the time said by every and anyone or it isn't offensive. What is your position? quote: The parents are not mocked. Ferris is just an expert manipulator The gay man wasn't mocked, the "doctor" in the story was just making a point regarding the biologically intended use of an anus. You appreciate and can differentiate the intended deep challenging perspective of Ferris Beuler, but not of a joke posted in the humor thread? Perspective is a bitch huh? quote: Just out of curiosity could you explain the inferred incest bit? quote: SLOANE Oh. Um. Yeah. Very. She was a terrific lady. Very hip. Very old. Yeah. DEEP VOICE Oh, Sloane! Dear! Sloane looks across at the Ferrari. Rooney looks. THEIR POV Ferris is looking out across the roof of the Ferrari. He's careful to keep his nose and mouth below the roofline. FERRIS Hurry along now! EXT. SCHOOL Rooney's suspicious. Sloane smiles and bids Rooney a hasty farewell. SLOANE I guess that's my Dad. Thanks. See ya. She hurries to the car. Rooney watches her. Something does compute for him. FERRIS You have a kiss for daddy? INT. SCHOOL. JEANIE She's watching out the door. She sees the Ferrari pull away. EXT. SCHOOL. ROONEY He can't quite put his finger on what's bothering him. INT. FERRARI Sloane shrieks with delight. She leans across the console and gives Ferris a kiss. By your reasoning, isn't that offensive to incest victim abused by their father? quote: Consider the drugged-out guy played by Charlie Sheen who ends up being surprisingly on target with his advice to the character "Jean." Implying that drug use is "healthy" and by using it you can provide insightful and "on target" advise? The mom would have been better at her parenting and providing advise to her daughter if she took some drug? Yes, like the rest of your arguments, you are right on target with the indication that my reference toward the Maitre d' was prejudicial induced. It's the same prejudice I have against Italians and redheads and I don't try to hide it. In fact personal experience with "those types" bears out the appropriateness of my attitude. Italians are good at organizing unions and laying concrete. Redheads are sluts, whose sexual needs are insatiable (YES!!!)! To give any other response, or take your reply seriously would provide unwarranted credibility. In the two worlds we represent, I'd rather portray honest emotional response versus going through some sort of analyzing process and be a paragraph or two behind in the conversation or in the joke. Because of that attitude I can always disarm the true prejudicial jerk. Yes - I do take offense. I may not take offense as much as you, but daily I have to deal with the most offensive and prejudicial portrayal of one group that I never hear challenged. The portrayal of men in any commercial advertisement. Want to see prejudice and see characters be offensively represented? Turn the TV on and watch any commercial. The man, if not always the middle aged white man, is the butt of every joke, is the dumb guy who blows up the grill while his wife is demonstrating the new Pella windows. Is lazily eating chips with his cronies looking out the window while the woman executive works hard at her computer. Is the guy who sets his kitchen on fire, while waiting for Bank of America to answer his customer service call. If you want a cause why not take up the banner of the misrepresented middle aged white guy? Unlike the joke you didn't have to read in a humor section that you don't find funny, if you watch TV without TIVO you are forced to see dumb white guys every 12 minutes or so. But I pick my spots. My favorite recollection of one such oaf who was trying to sell something to me and my company. During the pre-requisite deal making 3 Martini lunch he proceeded to "entertain" me by telling some of the most offensive black jokes I ever heard. I didn't know this guy, and he sure as hell didn't know me. It wasn't professional. Unlike a section of an internet site titled Humor", his attempt at entertaining me wasn't appropriate for the venue or the audience. At the end of one, where I was tired of routine, I decided to say to him that my mother was black. End of deal and end of lunch. I'll let you determine if you think she is or not. The challenge remains - provide a joke that is not at the expense of someone or something. Not a movie that you liked and didn't think conveyed any sort of stereotypical or prejudicial behavior, but a joke. In public company do you ever tell one?

Chaingang -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 10:28:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth What is your position? My position is that offense is taken by some even when "insiders" attempt to reclaim a given word. How was that not clear? quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth By your reasoning, isn't that offensive to incest victim abused by their father? Well, it's not exactly accepted - it's seen as odd. The principal should probably have done something but the situation is awkward with a death in the family - and then once they drive off I think he realizes it's Ferris in actuality. I don't see how incest victims are made fun of, it's not funny that she may be the victim of incest - it's funny that Rooney brings Sloane out of class and basically hands her over to Ferris. So WTF? The incest scenario is pretty quickly defused... quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth ...if you watch TV without TIVO you are forced to see dumb white guys every 12 minutes or so. Yeah, I'm not a big TV watcher. But I actually do know someone else that is offended by the same representations that you point out - he hates Homer Simpson passionately. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth The challenge remains - provide a joke that is not at the expense of someone or something. I think the challenge is better stated as "tell a joke that is not a put down for who or what someone is." See, this allows one to tell a joke about a stupid person but not a joke about Polish people because they are supposedly stupid (i.e. the traditional pollack joke). Can you see a difference? Anyone might be stupid within a joke's context and it doesn't attack any one group. The way you state the challenge I think it's impossible to meet your criteria. ... Cartwheeling for Cash -------------------------- One day a little girl came running into her house yelling, "Mommy, I got five dollars!" The mother was curious, so she asked her child where she got the five dollars from. The little girl replied, ''Tommy down the street gave me five dollars for doing cartwheel while he sat in the tree. The mother told her daughter, "Don't you know that Tommy is just trying to see your panties." ''OOOOhhhh'' said the little girl. The next day the little girl came running into the house yelling, "Mommy, I got ten dollars. The mother asked, "Where did you get the ten dollars from?" The little girl replied, "Tommy down the street gave me ten dollars for doing a cartwheel while he sat up in the tree and laughed." The mother replied, "Didn't I tell you that he is...'' Before the mother could finish, the little girl said, ''Wait Mommy. I tricked him, I didn't wear any panties today.'' ... Now maybe something there flies over my head, but I think the joke is about sexual naiveté. Plus we aren't laughing at the little girl, we laugh merely at something she may be too young to understand. I don't find the joke mean, just kinda of cute. Like: "Awww, look how innocent she is!" So she is the subject of the joke because she is an innocent, but the joke is not a put down because of that fact. Assuming Tommy is also a child, which I do, the joke is totally harmless.

sissymaidlola -> RE: two thumbs up (3/14/2006 10:29:48 AM)
quote: I think you're stretching here in attempt to show that all humor makes fun of "types" - but I disagree with that assertion. You must distinguish types from situational circumstances that could happen to anyone - hence the term "situational comedy" aka "sitcom." Joy riding thieves? Aren't the main characters doing the exact same thing with one of their father's car which they DO NOT have permission to take? So they are joy riding teenagers then, right? The point is that the car has irresistible allure - we are supposed to identify with all of them. The parents are not mocked. Ferris is just an expert manipulator - which is in my view almost a criticism of him (he is shown manipulating parent, lover, friend, and foe - all alike). By the end of the film we almost "want" him to get caught which is why the race sequence is so exciting. The maitre d', if he is a type, is the quintessential gatekeeper - I don't really recall anything about him that was gay specific (your personal prejudice showing perhaps?). Gay or not gay, he is being made fun of as a gatekeeper - whcih could be anyone in that precise situation. BTW, not that I defend this movie overmuch, I just remember thinking it was reasonably even-handed. Consider the drugged-out guy played by Charlie Sheen who ends up being surprisingly on target with his advice to the character "Jean." I think in small ways all of the characters actually defy expectation in numerous ways. That's also the point of another Hughs movie "Breakfast Club" - that characters that can be easily "typed" defy expectation and all have a human side with which many can relate. Well, a big, big heart-felt thank you to Roger Ebert (a.k.a. Chaingang) for the wonderfully profound autopsy of that perennial comedy favorite, the 1986 movie "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"! I think we can all agree that was a "two thumb's up" [sm=sodoff.gif] for Ferris Bueller! [;)] Coming up next on the "Comedy Movie Anal Discussion Forum" we will be deconstructing the 1989 movie, "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure". And then, on the hour, our resident TV and movie maverick, Sissykel, will be anally dissecting the 1982 classic, "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". Finally, coming up later tonight, back by popular demand, we will be repeating the Sissykel and Dilbert in-depth over-analysis of the 1998 classic comedy film, "There's Something About Mary". So please stay tuned so that you can read right here in your favorite discussion forum all of our scheduled anal-retentive retrospective deconstructions of old American comedy flicks. You may also care to check out our sister TV channel, C-MAD TV. But right now we must take a very quick break here for forum identification and the obligatory word from our sponsors ... [sm=moon.gif] `·.,¸¸,.·´¯"§§ _ sissy maid lola _ §§"¯`·.,¸¸,.·´ To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. - Douglas Adams

Chaingang -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 10:40:23 AM)
It occurs to me that my signature is a quote from a funny man whose whole area of humor turns on semantics. ... My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted. If you shoot at mimes, should you use a silencer? I was walking down the street wearing glasses when the prescription ran out. I bought some batteries, but they weren't included. Last night somebody broke into my apartment and replaced everything with exact duplicates... When I pointed it out to my roommate, he said, 'Do I know you?' I have an existential map. It has 'You are here' written all over it. I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place. It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. - Steven Wright

Mercnbeth -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 10:52:59 AM)
quote: ''Wait Mommy. I tricked him, I didn't wear any panties today.'' Now maybe something there flies over my head, but I think the joke is about sexual naiveté. Plus we aren't laughing at the little girl, we laugh merely at something she may be too young to understand. I don't find the joke mean, just kinda of cute. Like: "Awww, look how innocent she is!" So she is the subject of the joke because she is an innocent, but the joke is not a put down because of that fact. Assuming Tommy is also a child, which I do, the joke is totally harmless. Recovering victims of sexual predators would cringe at that joke; predators may be inspired. quote: Can you see a difference? Anyone might be stupid within a joke's context and it doesn't attack any one group. The way you state the challenge I think it's impossible to meet your criteria. That is the point - it IS impossible. I'm glad that you agree. Keep that thought in mind if you decide to read any more jokes in the Humor section. And no - I see no difference. The second largest group of people (men are first) needing protection against prejudicial stereotypical representation are "stupid people". They are the ones providing the knee jerk reaction to the latest buzz word filled talking point. They are the ones who most often, and easily are manipulate by politicians and/or the media. quote: `·.,¸¸,.·´¯"§§ _ sissy maid lola _ §§"¯`·.,¸¸,.·´ :Well, a big, big heart-felt thank you to Roger Ebert (a.k.a. Chaingang) for the wonderfully profound autopsy of that perennial comedy favorite, the 1986 movie "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"! I think we can all agree that was a "two thumb's up" for Ferris Bueller! Can I be the "other guy"?

Chaingang -> RE: Free speech? (3/14/2006 10:58:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Recovering victims of sexual predators would cringe at that joke; predators may be inspired. Stretch, stretch, stretch - I don't think you are making the points here that you think you are. A boy named Tommy must now be a sexual predator so that you can score a hit. A joke about shooting mimes and silencers is actually advocacy of violent acts? Not. To meet your absurd criteria of: "...at the expense of someone or something" is impossible because a joke must have some kind of content, SOME THING it is about... Duh!

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