quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

What's the differance between being able to buy "carbon credits" and buying "indulgences" in the middle ages?
They both involve religions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

a mental hiccup caused by a double sambucca on the rocks with a splash of water.

Well no wonder. Forego the water next time, it's a distraction.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

As if it is the first time the damn sea has risen or fallen!

And they ignore the benefits of the melting of the Arctic ice:

Access to new oil reserves and at last a northern ship passage across the Arctic Circle. Cruise ships traveling from Newfoundland to Alaska! Sheesh, these people have no imagination. A whole new industry is born.

"I'm on top of the world , Ma!"

Vincent

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

As if it is the first time the damn sea has risen or fallen!

And they ignore the benefits of the melting of the Arctic ice:

Access to new oil reserves and at last a northern ship passage across the Arctic Circle. Cruise ships traveling from Newfoundland to Alaska! Sheesh, these people have no imagination. A whole new industry is born.

"I'm on top of the world , Ma!"

Vincent

Vincent, of course they don't, they see their own shadows and they piss themselves!
I read somewhere that in a thousand years from now the seas will be 120 meters *below* the level they are at now due to the constant incredable pressure on the seabed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Uh oh! - Another "leak"...


The UN Copenhagen climate talks are in disarray today after developing countries reacted furiously to leaked documents that show world leaders will next week be asked to sign an agreement that hands more power to rich countries and sidelines the UN's role in all future climate change negotiations.

The document is also being interpreted by developing countries as setting unequal limits on per capita carbon emissions for developed and developing countries in 2050; meaning that people in rich countries would be permitted to emit nearly twice as much under the proposals.

The so-called Danish text, a secret draft agreement worked on by a group of individuals known as "the circle of commitment" - but understood to include the UK, US and Denmark - has only been shown to a handful of countries since it was finalized this week.

The agreement, leaked to the Guardian, is a departure from the Kyoto protocol's principle that rich nations, which have emitted the bulk of the CO2, should take on firm and binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gases, while poorer nations were not compelled to act. The draft hands effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank; would abandon the Kyoto protocol - the only legally binding treaty that the world has on emissions reductions; and would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions.

A confidential analysis of the text by developing countries also seen by the Guardian shows deep unease over details of the text. In particular, it is understood to:

• Force developing countries to agree to specific emission cuts and measures that were not part of the original UN agreement;

• Divide poor countries further by creating a new category of developing countries called "the most vulnerable";

• Weaken the UN's role in handling climate finance;

• Not allow poor countries to emit more than 1.44 tonnes of carbon per person by 2050, while allowing rich countries to emit 2.67 tonnes.

Developing countries that have seen the text are understood to be furious that it is being promoted by rich countries without their knowledge and without discussion in the negotiations.

"It is being done in secret. Clearly the intention is to get [Barack] Obama and the leaders of other rich countries to muscle it through when they arrive next week. It effectively is the end of the UN process," said one diplomat, who asked to remain nameless.

How unfair - asking those poor developing countries to meet the same standards! That's not what was promised by UN! Their air and water are different. They can't be expected to not generate carbon and still be able to fulfill the Nike sneaker orders under contracted costs! Hell - Nike may as well have a factory in Seattle!

...

One thing that Climategate does is give us an opportunity to step back from the details of the AGW argument and say, maybe these are heat-of-the-moment stuff, and in the long run will look as silly as the Durants’ allergy to Eisenhower. And perhaps, if we can put climate arguments in perspective, it will allow us to put the much smaller nano arguments (pun intended) into perspective too.

So let’s look at some ice.

...

So what does it tell us about, say, the past 500 years? (the youngest datum is age=0.0951409 (thousand years before present) — perhaps younger snow doesn’t work so well?):

...

Well, whaddaya know — a hockey stick.  In fact, the “blade” continues up in the 20th century at least another half a degree.  But how long is the handle? How unprecedented is the current warming trend?

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

As if it is the first time the damn sea has risen or fallen!

And they ignore the benefits of the melting of the Arctic ice:

Access to new oil reserves and at last a northern ship passage across the Arctic Circle. Cruise ships traveling from Newfoundland to Alaska! Sheesh, these people have no imagination. A whole new industry is born.

"I'm on top of the world , Ma!"

Vincent

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Many poor nations are insisting that wealthier nations make deeper cuts in their emissions and contribute more money to help the poorer countries, a split that widened in Copenhagen on Tuesday as competing documents of a potential agreement circulated.

much more info here

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

Climategate: Gore falsifies the record

Al Gore has studied the Climategate emails with his typically rigorous eye and dismissed them as mere piffle

All of it, just 10 year old piffle, signifying nothing...

In fact, as Watts Up With That shows, one Climategate email was from just two months ago. The most recent was sent on November 12 - just a month ago. The emails which have Tom Wigley seeming (to me) to choke on the deceit are all from this year. Phil Jones’ infamous email urging other Climategate scientists to delete emails is from last year.

K.

quote:

Starving polar bears turn to cannibalism New pictures show that polar bears are beginning to cannibalise each other as global warming destroys its hunting grounds.



The images, taken in Hudson Bay, Canada, around 200 miles north of the town of Churchill, Manitoba, show a male polar bear carrying the bloodied head of a polar bear cub it has killed for food.


Polar bears usually subsist on seals, which they hunt from a platform of sea ice. But the melting of sea ice as a result of rising global temperatures has made it more difficult for polar bears to hunt seals at sea, confining the bears to land.



Full article here

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Many poor nations are insisting that wealthier nations make deeper cuts in their emissions and contribute more money to help the poorer countries, a split that widened in Copenhagen on Tuesday as competing documents of a potential agreement circulated.

much more info here

"“People often ask about the costs,” said Kevin Parker, the global head of Deutsche Bank Asset Management, who tracks climate policy for the bank. “But the figures people tend to cite don’t take into account conservation and efficiency measures that are easily available. And they don’t look at the cost of inaction, which is the extinction of the human race. Period.”

Oooh, sounds like the makings of a good disaster movie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well the arctic icecap isn't landlocked, so it's already displacing its mass in the sea at the moment. There could well be problems when the greenland or antarctic ice melts, though.