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RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 9:11:51 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		We need Ralph Nader.

quote:

Brain, its taken 60 odd years to get a health care reform bill up, how long do you think its gonna take to do something about poverty. not in my lifetime no matter who is in power...its the same in the UK and Canada, there are growing portions of the population that are invisible to the majority, denied, dismissed and derided.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 9:13:01 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

People and companies that make a lot of money should pay more taxes.


They do.

????


Did you read his link?

Here it is again:


http://www.bloomberg.com


The rate decline looks “a little extreme,” said Robert Willens, president and chief executive officer of tax and accounting advisory firm Robert Willens LLC.

“I was definitely taken aback,” Willens said. “Clearly they have taken steps to ensure that a lot of their income is earned in lower-tax jurisdictions.”

U.S. Representative Lloyd Doggett, a Texas Democrat who serves on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said steps by Goldman Sachs and other banks shifting income to countries with lower taxes is cause for concern.

“This problem is larger than Goldman Sachs,” Doggett said. “With the right hand out begging for bailout money, the left is hiding it offshore.”

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 9:13:21 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		We need Ralph Nader.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 9:41:23 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Military Spending is another outrage.

"Cashing in the War Dividend": As Healthcare Reform Limited by Deficit Concerns, Military Spending Continues to Grow

As lawmakers hash out the final details of legislation to reform the nation's healthcare system, one of the key questions is: How much will it all cost, and how will it affect the federal deficit? While $900 billion over ten years may sound like a hefty price tag, it is a mere fraction of this country's spending on the military, which is expected to grow by at least $133.1 billion over the next decade. [includes rush transcript]

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/21/cashing_in_the_war_dividend_as

AMY GOODMAN: While $900 billion over ten years may sound like a hefty price tag, it’s a mere fraction of this country’s spending on the military. Consider that the Pentagon’s budget for 2010 alone is $704 billion.

ANJALI KAMAT: And Jo, can you talk about the states that are in debt, their budgets are in deficit? Can you talk about the numbers? How much would it take for federal spending to give to these states?

JO COMERFORD: Well, actually, one of the figures that we’re looking at now is that the combined total budgets of states, of the forty-eight states projected to be in deficit for 2010, is $689 billion. And when you compare that to our nation’s military budget for 2010—it’s $704 billion—it’s striking that the total state budgets, forty-eight states, is less than our nation’s military expenditures.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 9:46:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Here is part of the problem. When the government bailed out these companies, they screwed up. If they had filed for bankruptcy before the government stepped in to help, bonuses, among other things, could have been renegotiated, or even terminated.

Bet some wish they had pushed that bonus tax... lol

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/22/2009 10:03:07 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Isabel Sawhill and Ron Haskins -- Five myths about our land of opportunity

4. If we want to increase opportunities for children, we should give their families more income.

Of course money is a factor in upward mobility, but it isn't the only one; it may not even be the most important. Our research shows that if you want to avoid poverty and join the middle class in the United States, you need to complete high school (at a minimum), work full time and marry before you have children. If you do all three, your chances of being poor fall from 12 percent to 2 percent, and your chances of joining the middle class or above rise from 56 to 74 percent. (We define middle class as having an income of at least $50,000 a year for a family of three.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/30/AR2009103001845_pf.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Brain, its taken 60 odd years to get a health care reform bill up, how long do you think its gonna take to do something about poverty. not in my lifetime no matter who is in power...its the same in the UK and Canada, there are growing portions of the population that are invisible to the majority, denied, dismissed and derided. 


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 9:22:01 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

People and companies that make a lot of money should pay more taxes.


They do.

????


Did you read his link?

Here it is again:


http://www.bloomberg.com


The rate decline looks “a little extreme,” said Robert Willens, president and chief executive officer of tax and accounting advisory firm Robert Willens LLC.

“I was definitely taken aback,” Willens said. “Clearly they have taken steps to ensure that a lot of their income is earned in lower-tax jurisdictions.”

U.S. Representative Lloyd Doggett, a Texas Democrat who serves on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said steps by Goldman Sachs and other banks shifting income to countries with lower taxes is cause for concern.

“This problem is larger than Goldman Sachs,” Doggett said. “With the right hand out begging for bailout money, the left is hiding it offshore.”



See, rule, here's the thing...

This would have been a good example to discuss in the news thread, if that hadn't become a cat fight.

The problem is the reporting is superficial, and people are jumping to conclusions. Yes, indications lend support to those jumps. But finishing the connection is all the difference.

On balance, I've no problem with corporations or individuals taking advantage of tax credits. It's why they were created, to give incentive to actions and projects we want done. Ideally, it's a win/win scenario.

And yes, on the other hand, they are abused, and this certainly is a precipitous decline in taxes. So the next question, journalistically vs mere commentary, is investigating which tax credits and how, instead of gathering people's attitudes about the headline.

Sure, could turn out I'm outraged. I'd like the whole picture first, though. I'm weird that way. Or, could turn out they've a genius for a CFO and we all should take lessons.

Most likely, given Ockham's razor, the truth is somewhere between those extremes.

But the comments presented on this thread, prompting my comments, simply denounced profits. Profits pay for things--like jobs and products and tax revenue--and taking away profit kills the incentive to do any of that. They were simplistic reactions.


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 9:53:20 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We need Ralph Nader.



I agree.  He has a lot of money.  Tax him!

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 9:54:47 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We need Ralph Nader.



By the way, I am very grateful for his 2000 presidential campaign. 

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 10:20:30 AM   
VAcontroldom


Posts: 65
Joined: 6/5/2005
Status: offline 		The auto companies and the UAW got bailed out. Bailed out as in we aren't likely to ever be fully repaid. Goldman paid back their TARP money. They paid their TARP dividend to the government. The government sold them back their warrants. The government (taxpayers) made a 29% return giving money to GS at a time the overall market went down 10%. I still don't get what you want. For them to not earn it? To give bigger bonuses to their employees? Less to the employees and bigger dividends to shareholders? Or they should just stop earning money because that will somehow help someone?

If you don't think the regulatory climate in DC lead to the moves by GS and others to move stuff overseas then I think you are mistaken. So the "tax them at 80% they are rich" routine just leads you to taxing very few people as people spend more time developing tax shelters and offshore strategies instead of making too much money and paying too big bonuses to people who spend money and hire employees who can spend money and do that whole capitalist thing.

(in reply to MichiganHeadmast)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 10:32:12 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think that works for me, being patient, when you take care of your friends on Wall Street first and he still hasn't done anything for main street except some phoney crap that's designed to help pull the wool over people's eyes rather than do anything serious that helps people. Those banks are still foreclosing on people and making ridiculous profits doing it and Obama and Chris Dodd have done nothing to stop it.

Obama asks Americans for patience on economy

WASHINGTON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Saturday urged Americans to show patience over the economy and argued that his just-concluded Asia trip was critical for U.S. exports, countering criticism he had returned empty-handed.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20091121/obama-asks-americans-patience-on-economy.htm


quote:

ORIGINAL: VAcontroldom

The auto companies and the UAW got bailed out. Bailed out as in we aren't likely to ever be fully repaid. Goldman paid back their TARP money. They paid their TARP dividend to the government. The government sold them back their warrants. The government (taxpayers) made a 29% return giving money to GS at a time the overall market went down 10%. I still don't get what you want. For them to not earn it? To give bigger bonuses to their employees? Less to the employees and bigger dividends to shareholders? Or they should just stop earning money because that will somehow help someone?

If you don't think the regulatory climate in DC lead to the moves by GS and others to move stuff overseas then I think you are mistaken. So the "tax them at 80% they are rich" routine just leads you to taxing very few people as people spend more time developing tax shelters and offshore strategies instead of making too much money and paying too big bonuses to people who spend money and hire employees who can spend money and do that whole capitalist thing.


(in reply to VAcontroldom)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 12:10:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Brain, I don't think anyone running for the office is a "leader."
They're "politicians" plain and simple.
I'd like to see a good "manager" running for Prez. Lawyers are lawyers, they just don't seem to work out as managers.
You don't hire a "carpenter" to unclog your pipes.


I agree with you, but not for the same reasons.

I think a big part of the problem is we have anointed these people as "leaders" when they should be our representatives.





Rule, don't get me wrong, we do need lawyers but to do "lawyering", they shouldn't be so overrepresented in Washington.
I just don't think it's a good thing for one profession to be "prominant" in running our country, they tend to pass laws that will put more money in their pockets.
What if 30% of the congress were , truckdrivers say? Besides having GREAT roads everywhere truckdrivers would be making $300k per year!
Yeah, and "leaders" don't stiff bartenders and waitresses like Ted Kennedy was "famous" for doing!
The guy was probably worth $500m and he'd stiff some hardworking waitress trying to make a living?
For years I was embarrassed to tell people that I was from "Massachusetts" because of him! I'd tell them I was from, "New Hampshire."
WTH were those people doing "re-electing" him for 44 years!!!???
We need *term limits*!
We elect people to public office to represent our wishes not to try to tell us what to do! Those are not "leadership" positions they're "messenger" positions!
As for the people on "Wall Street" aren't they paying them enough anyway without the "need" for bonuses?
How about people who work at places like Walmart for $10 an hour? Do they get $40-$60k "bonuses"?
I don't think that someone who's making $300k per year needs a "bonus."
And if you're doing business with any of those Wall Street cos. *your money* is going to pay those bonuses and that means they're charging *you* too much for their "services."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/23/2009 12:12:22 PM >

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RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 12:19:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We need Ralph Nader.


Not as much as the Republicans needed him in 2004.

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RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 12:22:42 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We need Ralph Nader.


Not as much as the Republicans needed him in 2004.


No, The Country needed him in 2004!
"Oh Lovey! Who are those POOR people stuck to the electric fence?"
"They'd better not get their blood on my Bugatti!"

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 12:27:09 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Is there anything to this story about the Republicans funding him, do you know?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: As Wall Street Posts Record Profits and US Hunger R... - 11/23/2009 10:52:12 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The bailout was wrong. Many leading economists have suggested it:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/08/do-we-really-need-giant-banks.html
The Wall Street, big banks and the US government are de facto a single unit not separate things (hand washes hand).
There are signs we are living the end game of the system (stimuli are not working, banks are still insolvent, jobs are not created, etc...). The next financial collapse is possibly near (perhaps the next year or year after).
The way US and UK are running the world financial system can not continue much longer. Perhaps China-US odd relationship (the Chinese produce, US pays with toilet paper) will break down and the last will trigger the tsunami. My guess is Wall Street guys  feel it intuitively and they try to suck as much blood out of the dying corpse as possible. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain the arrogance.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 36
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