Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/23/2009 1:09:37 PM)

An offshoot to a couple of other threads...

What do dominant women think of men who proudly possess all the characteristics of a submissive, but are 100% not kinky?  They have no need or desire for bondage, kinky sex, chastity, S&M or anything of the sort (or femdom outfits, roleplay, etc.) - but, they are of the mold that they get their greatest fulfillment from seeing their lady happy.

In addition, they love to do things for her, like cook and clean, spoil her with affection, they are doting but not sappy, chivalrous and gentlemanly - and in the relationship, in all matters including sexual intercourse and finances, they prefer to defer to the lady. Or, at least, she does get the final say. He is not a pushover, but he's more comfortable in the role of submissive to her.

But he's not kinky and not into S&M. 

Is he still considered a "catch" for a femdom?

I have a lot of girlfriends in "female-led" relationships but they are not kinky at all.  I think that's because many of my peers are corporate/career women and fall into relationships where they are fairly take-charge, and they attract men who want to pamper and spoil a very demanding woman - yet kink is not on the table for either one of them and they don't care for it or miss it.  It's just not in their wiring.  I see some incredibly devoted and unselfish men who, on the surface, seem just as "submissive" (if not more) than my mate, and we're in a femdom relationship.

Do submissive men own the market when it comes to devotion and service?  What do they bring to the table that non kinky men do, if you take kink out of the equation?

Akasha




Lockit -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/23/2009 1:50:56 PM)

Submissive men do not own the market when it comes to devotion and service! I have often commented that vanilla men seemed to be more focused on me and willing to be led by me than men claiming to be submissive. Their focus is me and not what kinky thing I will do to them. A submissive man who is kinky will often times think more of the kinky aspects and how to get them than he will me. There have been times when I thought I just might give up the kink to get the type of focus and devotion that I want and it isn't too hard to bring in some dominant kinky to a man who hasn't had experience or thoughts about it. I can find that route to their more kinky parts when that devotion is there.

I wouldn't expect one to fulfill or crave any sadistic aspects I might have, to whatever degree I have interest in, but there can be kink involved with many or most the submissive men who are not involved in kinky things already. It can simply be how it is presented and shown that it doesn't make you a sick pervert to like or want a bit of spice.




LadyPact -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/23/2009 2:21:13 PM)

I agree with Lockit on this.  Also, I have to ask that, in the way the OP is written, are you asking about males that actually *are* submissive, or are we talking about those males who chose the term submissive, but would be better described as a bottom?

Either way, no, they don't have the corner on the market.  Plenty of vanilla men (not all) know how to treat their wives.  There are a lot of activities that we might describe as service that these vanilla husbands do on a regular basis.  Little stuff like cooking breakfast on a Sunday morning or running a bath after a particularly hard day.  Any man with sense does these things once in a while.  It has nothing to do with power structure or anything else.  Case in point, My husband does such things for Me.  He'll happily tell anyone that he doesn't do it because he's submissive.  He does it because he's a smart man.

What did he bring to the table?  He brought that and every other facet about himself.  That's more important than kink to Me.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/23/2009 2:32:28 PM)

First off, I find it extremely ironic that the phrase being used in the subject is one that comes from a very, very, VERY well known female submissive from back in the days of Usenet on the boards about a subject that is concerning male submissives. But anyhoo.

I think the reason why men seem to feel they have the market on devotion and service in this nature is mainly because they generally tend to be the ones that need to be focused in those categories in order to do well in making a connection. I've been around male and submissive females in many professional and non-professional settings, and way often the female submissives have been able to get away with the ability to not have to devote ANY service related behavior and still get lots and lots of play, whereas the men in those same circumstances had the opposite reaction. Doesn't always work out that way, but it does in more times than I've seen it not.

The female who used to use that phrase was an anachronism herself in that she claimed she was submissive but not kinky, yet was probably one of the kinkiest women I ever knew. This individual is not to be confused with the woman who was running around calling herself "submissive, but not stupid" or the guy who called himself "submissive but not cranky".




XaviersXian -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/23/2009 4:35:11 PM)

Hello everyone,

Everyone has their specific needs, of course, but the idea that Aakasha has put forward in the OP is my idea of heaven.  Where can I find a man like that?

have a lovely day!




Underumam -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/24/2009 9:32:03 AM)

Well OP- there are many of us men who make good catches running around out there who are both kinky and not. I believe that BOTH genders have undergone some dramatic changes over the last 20-30 years, and what used to reveal itself in clearly demarcated lines between so-called real manhood and true womanhood has long since been compromised and become a "grey area" (for lack of a better term), due primarily to the fact that we no longer live in tribal-savage type communities that required men to function as men, and women to function as women. Many women work outside the home and are good at what they do, while many men have been relegated to the role of house dad due to economic necessity, and are flourishing as well. Or pehaps both assume slightly more non-traditional roles as the requirements of would dictate. The "kink" many of us have come to love/need is merely a manifestation of our new roles.

I personally, classify myself as a man who is submissive to my woman in whatever ways she needs me to be, yet am far from submissive to others in my day to day life. I actually prefer/need to express myself sexually to her by being her little bitch at times, yet I also need to express as a so-called real man at other times. It's about being flexible and keeping the air of excitement alive over an extended period of time that will add to our long-term happiness as a couple. Too many fail to understand/validate the dynamic and look at kink as some temporary fantasy form. I function the best in an FLR because it's truly how I believe live is meant to be lived. Not much of anything happens in/around the home without the females approval,(I see this this even in Dom/sub relationships), and men need to respect this fact, as well as understand that SHE is the one who most often has the ability to to make  decisions based on what's truly best for everyone in the family unit.. On the other hand, I won't function well with a foolish woman who is just out for herself and has no consideration for anyone's feelings but her own.. lol.

Deep inside most all males of integrity lies a desire to serve, honor and protect the females in his life. We need to submit to Her, and have her approval/encouragement- it's how we are created for the most part. Females are vastly more intuitive and have a finer, more sublime power that expresses itself through the way they do things. Us males "appear" to be the stronger, more coarse activity, but this is only an illusion that was once rooted in physical survival needs. (It was not females who started writing "tear in my beer" songs.) In reality, females do much better without us, than we do without them, yet for some strange reason, not many ever equate this to strength. .......

Whether dominant or submissive, should a man not open doors, rub tired shoulders, nurture, love and protect the females entrusted to him in life and vice-versa? And should not this be a two way street in which BOTH genders truly want the best for each other? Life is difficult for all of us, and I personally feel that being together as a couple in whatever form it takes- is something to be treasured and protected at all costs by everyone involved. Many never reach the TRUEST levels of compatibility because they can't be completely honest with each other/ themselves. This requires much soul-searching and a level of intimacy between a man and woman that many seem very frightened of these days.

No matter what ones prefernce for sexual expression might be(kink or vanilla), most men are still men, and women are still women- as such, both are subject to the natural orders of nature, and when we don't alighn ourself with and respect it, we get crushed. It's as simple as that. lol.




CarrieO -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/24/2009 11:43:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam
Whether dominant or submissive, should a man not open doors, rub tired shoulders, nurture, love and protect the females entrusted to him in life and vice-versa? And should not this be a two way street in which BOTH genders truly want the best for each other? Life is difficult for all of us, and I personally feel that being together as a couple in whatever form it takes- is something to be treasured and protected at all costs by everyone involved. Many never reach the TRUEST levels of compatibility because they can't be completely honest with each other/ themselves. This requires much soul-searching and a level of intimacy between a man and woman that many seem very frightened of these days.


Amen!

Op- I've held off answering this thread because I don't see myself as a FemDom 100%.  I'm a switch, albeit one who enjoys the more dominant/top role, but switch nonetheless.  As such, my answer is coming from that place so I hope you'll keep that in mind.

I, personally, would appreciate a man like the one you described. The men I've spoken with and met, especially through CM, who label themselves as submissive inevitably come with a list in hand of the kinks they love and or want done to them...and they want it without the benefit of a relationship of any kind.  Now, let me repeat...this is MY experience only, not a generalization of submisive men in any way.
The non-kinky men I've had relationships with in the past were, for the most part, what you described.  It's what I found appealing and what kept my attention. So, with that being said...

quote:


Do submissive men own the market when it comes to devotion and service? 


Absolutely not...thank goodness.

quote:


What do they bring to the table that non kinky men do, if you take kink out of the equation?


It has been my experience that these non-kinky men ( most, btw, do have fantasies and desires that, while not evident on the first or even second meeting/date, they would love the chance to explore.) bring a lack of pre-concieved notions and expectations as to what a dominant female is. They like strong women...women who are in control of their own lives and who enjoy and appreciate the attention of a chivalrous (not wimpy) gentleman.  But...they don't necessarily need her to have the "right" look (black leather/heels/whip in hand) or expect her to cater to every deviant thought that crosses their minds. 

It's the "more" I say I want in a relationship.  It would be fantastic for me to find a submissive/switch man who wanted or offered more than a spank and a cuddle...those, for me, have been very few and very far between.

Just my [sm=2cents.gif]...FWIW.




RumpusParable -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/24/2009 11:50:43 AM)

FR:

CATCH!  While kink is fun, it's easy to find.  I don't mind a non-kinky sub at all, they are a plus to me.




switch2please -> RE: Submissive but not kinky - a catch or a dud? (11/24/2009 3:03:26 PM)

I'm also a switch who prefers a dominant role, but personally, when I do submit, it's been brought to my attention that I am more of a service-oriented submissive. My motivation in wanting to see my Mistress or Sir happy is just that - I want them to be happy. It would not be my place to expect play in return. Kink is wonderful, but not necessary to entice me to serve.
That being said, not being in possession of a broken chromosome, I can't speak for the behavior of male s-types [:)]




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