RE: History calls (Full Version)

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switch2please -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 6:13:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Examples Willbeur? "

Easy one. Words from a commercial on TV "and our plan usually lets you keep your own doctor". Why would they feel the need to mention that ?

T


ooooh oooooh oooooh! pick me, pick me!! 




eyesopened -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 6:15:21 AM)

In my perfect world we would change our immigration laws to match those of Australia, and immigrants need to have employer sponsors to immigrate.  No one ever beats up on Australia.  Perhaps we could adopt the cute accent as well so we could be better liked?

Perhaps having more LEGAL available workers would create a climate where it would no longer be a benefit to have so many illegal workers.  Just a thought.




switch2please -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 6:18:56 AM)

How is this relevant? The issue is a lack of jobs to support a larger workforce, and you want MORE workers?!?!?!?!




switch2please -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 6:21:55 AM)

wait...I see....you think if we had less illegal immigrants, we'd have more jobs. Logically, this would appear to be correct - we'll just insert our "able-bodied" seniors into the physically strenuous manual labor and service industries? Perfect.




LadyEllen -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 6:23:07 AM)

Indeed Eyes, but you have such a long land border to the south and short sea crossings over the Caribbean that it would be impossible to police; Australia is in the happier position of being comparatively remote and difficult to reach.

Illegal workers are by their nature more profitable to employ; unless the penalties exceed the benefit by some margin, it will be difficult at best to overcome this situation. And policing it would require stronger governmental regulation and cost a great deal of money - two things which detract from economic growth, possibly as much as the illegal workers, and would not be popular with a significant proportion of the population.

The US has to find its own solution here, taking what lessons it can from others' experience certainly, but tailoring them to its unique situation. As the most innovative country on the planet for the last hundred years or so, I refuse to believe that a solution cannot be found.

E




Termyn8or -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 7:41:32 AM)

I live here LE, and I see plainly why it can't.

T




Moonhead -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 10:20:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Illegal workers are by their nature more profitable to employ; unless the penalties exceed the benefit by some margin, it will be difficult at best to overcome this situation. And policing it would require stronger governmental regulation and cost a great deal of money - two things which detract from economic growth, possibly as much as the illegal workers, and would not be popular with a significant proportion of the population.

That's the problem in a nutshell. As s2p says, the reason that illegal immigrants are doing all of the shitwork is because they're a lot cheaper to employ, and will actually do the job for a pittance, rather than refusing point blank to work for that, as Americans tend to. This has always been my objection to the argument that immigrants are stealing jobs.
Unfortunately, as a wannabe Texan, America's last President was very keen on exploiting illegals and did fuck all about the problem. The new guy isn't going to do anything either as the last thing he wants is the GOP accusing him of racism...




subfever -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 11:26:54 AM)

(fast reply)

Socialized programs are nothing but band-aids on a far bigger problem that few care to address... let alone seek to eliminate. It's the same, old, tired, address the symptom and not the cause.

While those at the top of the food chain steal the world's wealth, the peons are pitted against each other to compete for the crumbs. The masses seem quite content to argue and philosophize about how to equitably distribute the crumbs. Wonderful job of indoctrination by the PTB. I have to applaud their ingenuity.





housesub4you -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 11:31:33 AM)

Actually, both would be doing very well, if the US Government paid back all the money it has borrowed from them in the last 20 years.

Something that seems to be lost when discussing how bankrupt Medicare is/will be.  Perhaps if it was funded, instead of cut to pay for a war (all the while borrowing from it) it would be in much better shape




EbonyWood -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 11:51:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

In my perfect world we would change our immigration laws to match those of Australia, and immigrants need to have employer sponsors to immigrate. 


This is absolutely false.
 
I have lived and worked in Australia, actually in labor recruitment for their mining industry. There is no sponsorship requirement. It is merely one way to expediate your immigration.




Moonhead -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:19:12 PM)

Isn't the main reason that Australia gets to be so picky about immigrants that nobody wants to go there?




EbonyWood -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:25:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Isn't the main reason that Australia gets to be so picky about immigrants that nobody wants to go there?


Illogical - LESS choosy would imply that, not more.
 
I like my comedy with SOME logic.




Moonhead -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:27:18 PM)

There's logic there: it's a lot easier to vet a smaller number of immigrants than it is a shitload.




EbonyWood -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:32:34 PM)

I think they only vet people leaving.
 
Checking on sanity etc.




Moonhead -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:34:47 PM)

Seriously? They're probably desperate for any immigrants they can get, then.




EbonyWood -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:39:48 PM)

I think your argument is becoming derailed. But forget that.
 
Why ARE you arguing? Do you dislike the country for some reason?
 
Have you been there?
 
I'm not getting your motivation.




Moonhead -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 12:44:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

I think your argument is becoming derailed. But forget that.
 
Why ARE you arguing? Do you dislike the country for some reason?
 
Have you been there?
 
I'm not getting your motivation.

Cheap attempt at humour. The Australians I've met, I rather liked.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 1:53:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

When Social Security and Medicare were first introduced, the expected longevity of the recipients was expected to be a 5-15 year range.  No one could have predicted the advances in medicine and healthier lifestyles.  The largest growth in the senior demographics are those over the age of 80.  It was expected back in the 40s and 50s that most folks would only be recieving benefits for 5 years and very few might recieve benefits for 30 years.  Now we have senarios where two generations in the same family are recieving benefits at the same time.  My brother and my father are one example.  Who could have predicted that?

The IRS has been looking closely at these figures.  The best solution is to change the age at which we recieve benefits to more closely align with the longevity expectations of the original bill.  Even if we increase the age at which folks become eligible for SS and Medicare to age 75 instead of age 65, the cost saving would be huge without having to decrease benefits or service. People working for an additional 10+ years supplies more tax base.  It really is the best answer.  Change the eligibility age to age 80 and it would be more in line with the original intent.  I don't know anyone who believes they are aged at age 65.


Life expectancy at 65 was actually 2 years then, not 5. And it would only take an phased in increase of full retirement to age 70 to keep the payroll tax where it is, not 75.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 1:58:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

false: Social Security was not intended to be permanent, and yet it's still in effect.

false: Raising the minimum age for benefits would be ideal...and can you imagine the outrage?



FYP.

Raising the minimum age has been done before, without "outrage", and is entirely consistent with economic and population trends.




thornhappy -> RE: History calls (11/25/2009 2:39:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

When Social Security and Medicare were first introduced, the expected longevity of the recipients was expected to be a 5-15 year range.  No one could have predicted the advances in medicine and healthier lifestyles.  The largest growth in the senior demographics are those over the age of 80.  It was expected back in the 40s and 50s that most folks would only be recieving benefits for 5 years and very few might recieve benefits for 30 years.  Now we have senarios where two generations in the same family are recieving benefits at the same time.  My brother and my father are one example.  Who could have predicted that?

The IRS has been looking closely at these figures.  The best solution is to change the age at which we recieve benefits to more closely align with the longevity expectations of the original bill.  Even if we increase the age at which folks become eligible for SS and Medicare to age 75 instead of age 65, the cost saving would be huge without having to decrease benefits or service. People working for an additional 10+ years supplies more tax base.  It really is the best answer.  Change the eligibility age to age 80 and it would be more in line with the original intent.  I don't know anyone who believes they are aged at age 65.

Kill the cap on SS withdrawals and you'd fund it to about 95%.

Right now you pay SS taxes on income up to about $90k nowadays (single).  After that point, you pay no SS taxes.  So the guys hauling down hundreds of thousands pay the same SS taxes as the ones earning $90k.




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