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RE: 34,000 - 12/1/2009 4:40:27 PM

willbeurdaddy

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Hows that diplomacy thing goin?

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RE: 34,000 - 12/1/2009 4:45:07 PM

EbonyWood

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As good as the military thing.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/1/2009 6:01:37 PM

OrionTheWolf

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~FR~

My Grandpa taught me to not throw good money after bad. We have not gotten much return on our investment, so I cannot see how 34,000 more lives of investment will improve that. Win the support of the Warlords, and then let them fight with the Taliban. The current regime of Iran has to push some things through quickly, as things are slightly unraveling on them in their own country. If left alone, that region will implode, and I believe that it would be easier then to do anything that might need to be done.

Now radicals getting their hands on nukes changes the whole plan though.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/1/2009 8:30:42 PM

Brain

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It does allow Obama to have it both ways. Maybe that's what some people mean by Obama and deception. I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm just not satisfied with this guy these days, I want real change.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 9:05:20 AM

servantforuse

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I guess you'll have to move to Mexico..

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 9:12:22 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

My Grandpa taught me to not throw good money after bad. We have not gotten much return on our investment, so I cannot see how 34,000 more lives of investment will improve that. Win the support of the Warlords, and then let them fight with the Taliban. The current regime of Iran has to push some things through quickly, as things are slightly unraveling on them in their own country. If left alone, that region will implode, and I believe that it would be easier then to do anything that might need to be done.

Now radicals getting their hands on nukes changes the whole plan though.

Master Orion,

After the last administration, i find myself doubting what i am hearing about all this. Not because i have onformation to the contray, but because i--- we--- have been lied too before.

I am hearing now that Iran is planning to rev up their nuclear production, and that Iran is backing the Taliban. Pakistan has their own nukes and i am hearing there is a great risk that if we pull out, Iran will have their hands on those too.

Am i far off field in what i am hearing?

I dont know. I also dont know how far to trust the administration currently in office. With the information i have, what little i have, i fear pulling out. I also fear leaving our troops there.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 9:14:46 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It does allow Obama to have it both ways. Maybe that's what some people mean by Obama and deception. I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm just not satisfied with this guy these days, I want real change.

You want "real change" overnight? Then move to another country, Brain. It wont be happening here, and not because no one else wants change. Its because everyone fears change, especially those who are voted into office.

I wish we could have term limits. I think alot of this bs would go away if they could only serve so long, then HAVE to leave office. Would omit alot of that... But what would MY constituents think, and how much will it cost me (the politician) to do what I know is right.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 2:12:19 PM

Mercnbeth

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~ Fast Question of Pragmatic Logic ~

Since it's been pointed out to me that reaction and discussion to "the Afghanistan speech" was here; maybe I can get a answer to this question regarding the President's disclosed strategy.

What military commander, "freedom fighter" or "terrorist", would waste one bullet of resource on an enemy who essentially announced his surrender and withdraw in 18 months? I'd save my resources, both collateral and personal, stay out of the way, and come back and take over; letting it be known that anybody collaborating with the occupying forces will be dealt with in 18 months. Okay - maybe I'd spend some money printing and distributing calendars but other than that?

Having read the speech, I don't see any details of a mission to know when or how it will be deemed accomplished. I did see a fixed withdraw schedule.

Did I miss some disclosing gesture, or inflection, that the President made that would clear that up for me?

PS - Does anyone feel, as Chris Matthews known for his tingly leg, does, that the President went "into the enemy camp" for this speech? Should all the cadets be up for treason?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/2/2009 2:58:29 PM >

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 7:34:14 PM

OrionTheWolf

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It won't matter how long. The Soviets were a hell of a lot more merciless than we are, and the tribes just waited them out. The Taliban back then was seen as an ally, because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If nothing is done to bring the tribes and Warlords to what we, or anyone, wants to do in that area, then whatever is done will be temporary anyway.

tazzy, Iran has already stated they are looking to build 10 uranium enrichment facilities/nuclear power plants. Iran has to push this while those in power there still have it. Iran wants to be the powr in that region, with an Islamic leader as the ultimate power. Whether it is posturing or not, the words of their own President says they want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. Threat of violence can be as effective as violence, depending on how it is played. So far Iran has done well playing it. Iran likely supports most Islamic organizations, unless they feel that organization may pose an internal threat to their power.

Now concerning Pakistan, they have problems with the Taliban, and Islamic Radicals as well. The same area we are having problems with in Afghanistan, stretches into Pakistan. Pakistan already has nukes, and the government is not the most stable, the army being the biggest power there.

More soldiers in Afghanistan will not help much, except for maybe relieve the other side of the border into Pakistan, to free those troops up to secure closer to there major cities and military sites. That is a short term and temporary thing though. No lasting effect will come of it, the geographical location is just too good for guerilla fighters to use. Even if we removed every "terrorist" today, give it a year and see what happens.

Now back to Iran, if you want to be the power in the region, you either gain power and/or diminish other players in the area. So while they move towards gaining nuclear power, they can weaken Pakistan, and move closer to their goals. Iran is also making alliances with some of the big players, like Russia and China, so they are playing a very sound tactical game here. If only it were a game.

Back to 34,000 though, again it will not matter in the end. The Islamic radical will always be there, unless those that live there do not want them there. The Warlords have to be brought on board somehow.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/2/2009 8:02:23 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Does anyone feel, as Chris Matthews known for his tingly leg, does, that the President went "into the enemy camp" for this speech?

"Enemy Camp???" That does sound like Matthews...

No. President Obama went to the place where we train the dogs of war, and apparently expected them to lap up a nice vegan porridge. A different speech, a different mission, he could have had them on their feet chanting "hoo-ah!" For that speech, West Point was completely the wrong venue.

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RE: 34,000 - 12/3/2009 6:43:01 AM

mnottertail

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Well, Rich.........

Here these guys are looking for a job, and he's telling them they are going to be laid off in 18 months.

Ron

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