RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates

RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (Full Version)

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AnimusRex -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 11:06:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery The durability of the artificial left/right liberal/conservative theater will probably always continue to amaze me. They tweak policies, but they all follow expansionary policies, endlessly, in bust and boom, leaving the exacerbated structural deficit for later. And yet, people continue to line up on the sides of the theater, happy to have a part in the play. Good point. The entire political debate is still being framed by the Cold War, in which you had one side leaning more towards socialism, and expansionist government policies, while the other wanted to rein in government. But today the old lines are increasingly irrelevant; "Conservatives" are content to deficit spend, and enlarge the Executive Branch, while "liberals" are content to cooperate with corporations in tax breaks and deregulation. I believe we are seeing the beginnings of a significant realignment of parties, a reshuffling of demographic interests similar to the New Deal. I think the biggest breakage in party platforms will be the incomatibility of "strong defense" hawkishness with "limited government" fiscal conservatism. This will be mirrored by those who accept a multi-polar world versus the neocons who want American hegemony.

Moonhead -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 2:08:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex I think the biggest breakage in party platforms will be the incomatibility of "strong defense" hawkishness with "limited government" fiscal conservatism. This will be mirrored by those who accept a multi-polar world versus the neocons who want American hegemony. Doesn't the fact that none of the neocons can see any contradiction there (this silly Republican round robin is nothing if not proof of that) rather spoil that hope, though?

AnimusRex -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 2:39:23 PM)
Moonhead- Interestingly, when the modern conservative movement formed in the early 60's, its main animating feature was anti-Communism. Anti-Communism demanded a robust defense of free market capitalism, but also a strong military defense against the Communist Bloc. Even then, the incompatibility was recognized, but the two ideas were welded together out of necessity. Now that there is no Communist Bloc, the strong defense pillar is weakened; even stalwart conservatives like Pat Buchanan are questioning our need to be abroad. The Red Army needed a conventional military to oppose it; but it is increasingly hard to make the argument that a ragtag group of guys with boxcutters demands a military expenditure of some 900 Billion per year.

Moonhead -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 2:43:03 PM)
Point taken. The spectacle of the CIA spending most of the '50s, '60s and '70s deposing popular and democratically elected foreign leaders and replacing them with fascist * dictators was a horribly depressing one in that light. *(Unlike many on collarme, I'm using that term correctly. Just look at the Shah or Pinochet.)

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 2:48:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex Anti-Communism demanded a robust defense of free market capitalism, but also a strong military defense against the Communist Bloc. Even then, the incompatibility was recognized, but the two ideas were welded together out of necessity. Now that there is no Communist Bloc, the strong defense pillar is weakened; even stalwart conservatives like Pat Buchanan are questioning our need to be abroad. Pat Buchanan has become an outright isolationist these days - which at least shows that his conservatism is consistent. I think you've hit on the core of the problem, though. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Cold War ended. At that point, a re-thinking of American global strategy and objectives was necessary but never occurred. It's hard to justify maintaining a global sphere of influence and the ability to project your power anywhere in the world at a moment's notice when there's no tremendous military threat. It's also pretty hard to convince your allies in the "hegemony" that they need to listen to you and maintain a huge military base in their nation when they're no longer threatened by real or perceived Communist invasion or insurgency. I think a strong attempt has been made to pose al-Qaeda or "islamofasicsts" as an equivalent threat requiring an equivalent resposne - but it doesn't really hold up as a large-scale military is not the appropriate tool to use to fight a diverse and widespread terrorist organization. What we're doing is still fighting the last war when what we need to be doing is thinking about how to go about fighting the next one.

AnimusRex -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 2:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Point taken. The spectacle of the CIA spending most of the '50s, '60s and '70s deposing popular and democratically elected foreign leaders and replacing them with fascist * dictators was a horribly depressing one in that light. *(Unlike many on collarme, I'm using that term correctly. Just look at the Shah or Pinochet.) or Batista, Somoza, Marcos, Trujillo, or Suharto...off the top of my head. There were others I am sure.

Moonhead -> RE: Purity Resolution for Republican party candidates (11/27/2009 3:11:24 PM)
Loads more. Very grim times indeed.

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