actually want advice and will listen

actually want advice and will listen (Full Version)

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SueACydell -> actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 12:45:08 PM)
After many years of bad experiences, I finally found someone recently (not on this site) who is both dominant and has treated me well. The sex is great. He is a good listener (though maybe not as forthcoming himself about his own feelings and thoughts), seems to care about my feelings and pleasure, seems to be a substantial and respectable person with many admirable qualities. I felt truly happy that I had met him and hopeful that perhaps this could turn into a long-term relationship. Recently he lied to me about something. It could be considered a small thing, but nonetheless that bothered me. When I told him about it, he denied that he had lied. I am 100% sure that he did (please note, this is absolutely not in question, it's not even 99%) so it disappointed me further that he wouldn't come clean. I don't know how to deal with this. On the one hand, I don't want to overreact nor persecute him for the bad experiences I've had with those who have come before him and assume that because he's lied to me once he's lying about other things or that he can't be trusted. I want to be open-minded and forgiving enough to get over his having lied to me. On the other hand, I don't want to be a sucker. I don't want to be with someone in whom I'm disappointed and who won't 'fess up when he does something objectionable like lying. I don't want to give my love and trust and respect to someone who won't love and trust and respect me in return. I thought that he was doing so, but now that's in question. I would like to know how people think I should handle this situation so that I neither overreact nor don't stand up for myself and the good relationship that I want and deserve.

LaTigresse -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 12:55:47 PM)
For me, it really would depend upon the lie and the circumstance. If he told you he loved a meal you fixed then you found out that in truth he hated it but did not want to hurt your feelings......I could blow that one off. If he told you he had never been married and had no children, then you found out he had and did and still was..........that would be a "good bye!!" for me.

Fitznicely -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:00:24 PM)
Need to know more about the lie, really... As LaT. says, there's lies and lies.

CelticSubM -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:09:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SueACydell After many years of bad experiences, I finally found someone recently (not on this site) who is both dominant and has treated me well. The sex is great. He is a good listener (though maybe not as forthcoming himself about his own feelings and thoughts), seems to care about my feelings and pleasure, seems to be a substantial and respectable person with many admirable qualities. I felt truly happy that I had met him and hopeful that perhaps this could turn into a long-term relationship. Recently he lied to me about something. It could be considered a small thing, but nonetheless that bothered me. When I told him about it, he denied that he had lied. I am 100% sure that he did (please note, this is absolutely not in question, it's not even 99%) so it disappointed me further that he wouldn't come clean. I don't know how to deal with this. On the one hand, I don't want to overreact nor persecute him for the bad experiences I've had with those who have come before him and assume that because he's lied to me once he's lying about other things or that he can't be trusted. I want to be open-minded and forgiving enough to get over his having lied to me. On the other hand, I don't want to be a sucker. I don't want to be with someone in whom I'm disappointed and who won't 'fess up when he does something objectionable like lying. I don't want to give my love and trust and respect to someone who won't love and trust and respect me in return. I thought that he was doing so, but now that's in question. I would like to know how people think I should handle this situation so that I neither overreact nor don't stand up for myself and the good relationship that I want and deserve. Whether it's a bdsm or a "vanilla" relationship, one of the most important things for the health of the relationship is to maintain a sense of proportion. When problem or conflicts arise, we have to deal with each one on its own terms and make sure we don't blow it up to cosmic proportions. It's very easy for little things to get inflated, so that what someone said in response becomes more important than the original issue. It's always good to pause and ask ourselves just what is really at stake, is it worth the dispute? People lie for many reasons. Often it is to manipulate and exploit others. Often also, it is from personal embarassment, or a desire to please others, or not hurt their feelings, or absent-mindedness, or the desire to make a tale a little bit better in the telling. Ask yourself which kind of lying is involved here, and respond accordingly.

SueACydell -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:09:53 PM)
Well ok. I avoided giving the details of the lie both because it seemed too annoying to explain, and because it didn't seem that relevant. What's most relevant is that it was a definite lie, but a small one. I'm going to attempt to explain the details below, but i really want to avoid getting drawn up in these particular details. The question stands as is, what do you do if someone lies to you about something small, and then won't come clean?

DomImus -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:13:10 PM)
Why didn't you call him on it based on what you knew?

wisdomtogive -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:14:35 PM)
Hi SueAcydell It really would depend on the lie.the type of lie. If they tell me they liked my meatloaf and didn't, that wouldnt bother me. If they told me a lie about canceling out in seeing me, and i found out about the lie, it would be a major red flag. With that said, I became very aware recently that I tend to rationalize away these red flag lies, and try to see it as if I was in their shoes. I had learned how I was making excuses for them, when I knew they are lying to me. Hopefully I have learned this and the reasons why i permitted myself to think so mcuh less of me, so not to repeat this mistake. Maybe this will give you something to think on, or perhaps doesn't apply. I didn't think it did for me till I went through it. Rationalizing into oblivion takes more energy then dealing with it though. Blessings wisdomtogive

CelticSubM -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SueACydell Well ok. I avoided giving the details of the lie both because it seemed too annoying to explain, and because it didn't seem that relevant. What's most relevant is that it was a definite lie, but a small one. I'm going to attempt to explain the details below, but i really want to avoid getting drawn up in these particular details. The question stands as is, what do you do if someone lies to you about something small, and then won't come clean? He and I chat every day, often multiple times a day, on Yahoo IM. Usually he appears on most of the work day on IM, although doesn't always respond right away. Today he cancelled our plans on short notice, saying that his parents were unexpectedly in from out of the country (I'm trying not to be suspicious of that because I know things like that do happen, but this lie has made me lean towards suspiciousness). He sent me a message about this that morning. When I came on a couple of hours later, he no longer appeared on YIM. So I went about my business, sent him a YIM, did email etc. I logged into an old email address that I keep for old time's sake and which I rarely log into, just enough to keep it active (maybe once every 3 weeks or so on average). As part of web-based yahoo email, you see a little chat window in the interface. Well, on there he appeared on. This was my old handle, that I used years ago when we first started chatting (we chatted for maybe a few weeks eons ago and only recently reconnected after many months of not chatting). Meaning, he had specifically set himself to invisible for my current handle, but I guess had forgotten my old or had removed it from his YIM list without setting it to invisible. I was stunned when I realized that he was on chat but specifically not visible to me. Actually I had not put two and two together for a while as I went through all the accumulated email. It finally dawned on me that the little yellow smily face in that interface did not match the grey smily face in my free-standing YIM app where I have my current handle. I sent him a brief message using my current handle ("um, hello??"). After a few minutes he went visible. I asked him why he had been invisible to me and he claimed he had just logged on. Clearly untrue but I didn't push it and he logged out a few minutes later and then appeared invisible everywhere. Yahoo! Messenger and e-mail are subject to all kinds of technical glitches. I'd be very hesitant to draw any firm conclusions from something like what you describe. Perhaps that is reason for some degree of increased wariness or vigilance on your part. (Not too much though, look hard enough, and you'll always find reasons to be suspicious about anyone.) In itself, it doesn't sound like something worth being upset about.

SueACydell -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:41:16 PM)
Sigh. As I mentioned in the first post, I'm sure he was on and wasn't visible to me. I'm aware of technical glitches. I'm a web developer. I know what i'm talking about here. If you want to claim otherwise, you're wrong but I won't expend energy arguing. Again: I'm REALLY not interested in debating details. I'd love it if someone would actually answer my question. Again, that question is: how should I deal with someone I'd started to really like and respect telling me a small lie and then not coming clean about it?

SueACydell -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:43:33 PM)
Frankly I was still quite stunned and didn't know what to do. I did ask him once but didn't push it after that. He also logged off after a few minutes.

LaTigresse -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:44:13 PM)
For someone that said they would really listen...........you lied.

SueACydell -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:45:51 PM)
Oh bullshit. Not even worth bothering to counter that with the obvious points. Buh-bye.

LaTigresse -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:47:42 PM)
Don't let the screen door hitcha.

AAkasha -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:49:17 PM)
A couple of things come to mind. How serious is your relationship? If you are not in an agreed-upon mutually exclusive relationship, and if you make him feel (intended or not) smothered/cornered, he may be resorting to this kind of behavior to talk to other women, play the field, or simply have privacy. He may just be keeping his options open. Keep in mind, some men may feel this way even if the woman is not smothering at all. It's just a guy thing. The question is whether or not he's just a huge player and hides stuff like this all the time, or he's honestly into you and this was just a minor thing. I also am not sure if you referred to his age. I think it's not that unheard of for a younger and less experienced (romantically) guy to resort to hiding things instead of being up front, but an older guy would raise some red flags. I think men sometimes don't know how they feel or what they want (emotionally) from women as early on in courting as women do. They don't know how to handle it, and saying to a lady, "I really like you but we're spending too much time together and to be honest I still get a charge out of chatting with other women, but I don't want you to dump me for that, ok?" isn't feasible. I also think the online world has opened up a whole new level of cheating/dishonest/playboy opportunities for men who like to just see as many women as possible - so just protect your emotions and keep and open mind. His maturity level and integrity may both play a role and both will become self evident in time anyway. Most important rule: You set the boundaries with regards to how you are treated by a man, not the other way around. Akasha

dreamerdreaming -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:49:21 PM)
He deceived you. Or he tried, and was caught. Putting up with deceit sets a bad precedent. If you want to stay with a liar, go ahead. If you won't, then don't. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." -Neil Peart (Rush)

Wolf2Bear -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:52:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SueACydell Sigh. As I mentioned in the first post, I'm sure he was on and wasn't visible to me. I'm aware of technical glitches. I'm a web developer. I know what i'm talking about here. If you want to claim otherwise, you're wrong but I won't expend energy arguing. Again: I'm REALLY not interested in debating details. I'd love it if someone would actually answer my question. Again, that question is: how should I deal with someone I'd started to really like and respect telling me a small lie and then not coming clean about it? The actual question is how do YOU think you should handle this? Frankly I don't think asking and possibly taking advice from anonymous strangers will help you determine if your dom was actually lying to you or not. You are the only person who knows if you'll tolerate harmless small white lies or refuse to accept any lie under any and all circumstances.

Level -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:53:21 PM)
If he's worth working through it with, do so. If not, don't. I can't tell you what to do, because I don't know, or care, about him; I'd just as soon push him off the side of a boat. Know what I mean?

LaTigresse -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 1:56:53 PM)
I was under the understanding........though I could be wrong because things were deleted.........that there was some issue that someone appeared to be online but said they were not. I know that on yahoo, especially if a person has DSL and leaves their computer on most of the time like my son does, this is very possible. I keep my yahoo on most of the time here and it will show him as online off and on all day when I know for a fact he is not home. I would not immediately assume anything to be factual when yahoo is involved. HOWEVER, I would be watchful to see if he is consistent in all other things. Another thing to consider...........there are times when I do not have the emotional energy to visit with SOME people like my friend Shannon. Yet I might have it for someone like my sister. I love Shannon and would never want to hurt her feelings by telling her "I am sorry but I just don't feel like talking to you right now but I do want to talk to my sister that makes me laugh."

Whenready -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 2:01:14 PM)
I lie. You lie. We all lie. In small ways. In big ways. None of us are perfect. Ask him. Say to him what you've said here. Listen to what he says. Decide - as above - is he worth it?. If he is, either accept the lie and live with it, and/or make sure he knows how you feel about it. Talk it through. If he isn't, thank him politely for the good that you have had and say farewell, or ask for release if that is appropriate. He will lie again. So will you. You need to decide how much it matters.

CelticSubM -> RE: actually want advice and will listen (11/25/2009 2:03:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SueACydell Sigh. As I mentioned in the first post, I'm sure he was on and wasn't visible to me. I'm aware of technical glitches. I'm a web developer. I know what i'm talking about here. If you want to claim otherwise, you're wrong but I won't expend energy arguing. Again: I'm REALLY not interested in debating details. I'd love it if someone would actually answer my question. Again, that question is: how should I deal with someone I'd started to really like and respect telling me a small lie and then not coming clean about it? No one can tell you specifically how you should deal with anything in your life. At least, I'm not presumptuous enough to do so. I would caution you against making everything in the relationship into some kind of test. When little things like this start to become significant, it's often a kind of test of power, a way for one partner to assert herself or himself by demanding that the other respond in a certain way. That's not a healthy way of handling things. Again, it's all a matter of a sense of proportion. Don't make too much hang on too little. Ultimately, you are happy with the guy or you are not. If we wait for a partner or lover with no flaws, we will all be waiting a long time.

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