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Have you ever had any problems with any service people ... - 11/27/2009 7:40:18 PM

winterlight

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or anybody that did work for you?

Any really bad stories out there and what you ended up doing?

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/27/2009 7:42:02 PM

Underumam

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I'll share what I did after the statute of limitations runs out..lol.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/27/2009 8:17:25 PM

Lockit

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LOL... you are so bad! You just said that to get out of working around here didn't you! Didn't work! hehe

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/28/2009 1:24:53 AM

DesFIP

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Don't go for the lowest possible bid, the only way to do a job at half the cost is to cut corners.
Do get references and check with the Better Business Bureau.
Learn about what you want done so you can check up on the job and the bid.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/28/2009 2:02:18 AM

rockspider

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As an electrician finishing his training in 1971, and been in the trade ever since, here under 15 years as either co director or independent contractor i feel my words should count for something.
When choosing a contractor, get references from people you know and trust. If that is not avaliable, look for a company which is local and has served the comunity for years. Today you can look them up on the net. There is plenty of review boards for that kind of things. Look for negative input as often a contractor getting that, will write fake glowing reports on the boards in hope that it will overshadow the bad. Remember the old saying "paying peanuts will get you monkeys" is stil valid. Choosing a contractor purely on the price quoted is dangerous unless you really of the kind who can totally write a perfect specification on the job, so that you are sure that different quotes is identical in both the scope of work and the quality of the materials. Also remember the real good contractors will if they can work for the real good clients. When i had my own bussiness i refused to work with the general public because i had plenty corporate clients. The hasles working for the public can be quite severe. Just as the horror stories abound about the bad contractors, so do the horror stories about moronic and notorius bad payers abound among the contractors.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/28/2009 4:40:57 PM

pahunkboy

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No problems. They are actually pretty good in bed. Among the HOTTEST!

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/28/2009 6:25:31 PM

littlewonder

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I've had lots of problems with contractors in the past.

Some never showed up.
Others never completed the work.
Other had poor craftsmanship.

Never pay the entire amount up front. Give them a percentage and always get everything in writing.
Always read the contract very very carefully.

I had one guy who claimed he slipped and fell in my yard while installing flooring. He tried to get me to pay for his hospital bills. First of all where he said he supposedly fell was someplace he shouldn't have been anyway. He didn't use the sidewalk. Instead he jumped over the bushes as a shortcut. I told him to talk to his employer. He never bothered to come back to finish the floor despite my numerous calls to the company that went unanswered for months. Fortunately I had a friend who helped me out and finished it for me.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/28/2009 8:46:11 PM

MsFlutter

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Angie's List can be useful

< Message edited by MsFlutter -- 11/28/2009 8:47:23 PM >

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 8:00:10 AM

Termyn8or

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FR

I have heard of Angie's list but I have no faith in anything.

Years ago Mom had a new bathroom put in. This licensed, bonded and insured contractor came in and did the work. Well later I became her contractor, and when I tore out the other side of the wall I found a wire cut off from an orange extension cord used to feed the new outlet he installed. It was a GFI and always tripping.

Further investigation revealed that he had also wired it backwards, that is he reversed hot and neutral. If you know how a GFI works, you know that this makes a GFI more dangerous than a regular outlet ! When it trips, your body no longer shares the current with whatever is plugged in, you get it all ! That's because when it tripped it interrupted the neutral instead of the hot.

Licensed bonded and insured just means that when they burn your house down they do not lose their's. That is all it means. Professional means they get paid, that is all that means. We have gross incompetence at the highest strata of society, what do you expect elsewhere ?

Another one, the last time I used a contractor was in 1995. The house burned on January third. In many aspects they did a great job. However the drywall crew was trying to sell me stucco cielings. To me a stucco cieling is a coverup for people who don't know how to mud drywall. To me walking into a room with a nice perfectly smooth and flat cieling is wonderful. After making my wishes known the guy said "You'll be sorry" to which I replied "I am going to trust you to do your job right". I was sorry and I bitched. Not only that, a friend managed some propeerties and one had a fire. This job is a little too big for a DIY approach, as was mine. Well that same company put in a bid and he rejected it summarily stating "They don't know how to tape and paint". So not really on purpose, I cost them a big job simply because it was known that they fall flat on their face when it comes to certain things.

In the end personal references are the best. Find friends and associates who have had such work done and listen to them, see if they were satisfied with the work. It also helps if it was done years ago and A. Everything is fine and B. The company is still in business under the same management.

Sheepskins and credentials aren't worth a shit. I have walked into people's houses to fix their TVs after a college grad with a CET certification tried to fix it and fucked it all up. The proof is in the putting and when they again see a picture they might ask me "Where did you go to school for this ?" to which I reply "What's school ?". I am a tenth grade dropout. I have no professional certification whatsoever nor have I been to any seminars or technical schooling whatsoever. But I fixed the damn thing didn't I ?

Incompetence is so pandemic today the only real way to protect yourself is to understand what needs to be done, what is going to be done by whom, and how it is to be done. When my house burnt in 95, that contractor was very surprised to find someone like me keeping an eye on the job, one who could do the job but didn't want to. Other than the roofing I could've done it all, better and cheaper than them I might add. They had no idea of this as they chased the firetruck down the street so long ago.

If it happened again, I now have built up a crowd that really, I would just use my own people and function as the main contractor. Most people can't do that though. It can be a hard way to go if you don't know what you're doing.

A diploma is a fine thing to hang on the wall indeed, but it is not of much use in building a house. In fact I might go into business with this crew of mine, and if so I will probably tout not being licensed, bonded and insured as a good thing. That if I burn their house down I might lose mine. Wouldn't you think that would make me a bit more careful ?

Let's put it this way, wanna see a careful driver ? Put his kids, Grandma, other of his loved ones in the back of a pickup truck with no carseats or anything and flip him the keys. Give him some risk. Insurance is for the incompetent.

T

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 11:16:42 AM

rockspider

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Well Termyn. I do see you as one the loose bullets when it come to contracting. I have over the past 7 years undertaken quite a DIY project. A 1860 farmhouse restored and modernised to modern standards. I am an electrician with the diploma you don't really find worth anything. Well here at least those is a guarantie that a tradesman has passed his aprentiship and final exams. Nobody gets to do anything for me or my boss for that matter unless they have that. Most of the work i did with my own hands. But as my family and friends really have nearly every single trade represented nothing where i was in any way in doubt was done without consulting one of them. As the job was progressing i often invited one around to do an inspection and had my ass kicked a few times. Minor stuff, but without correcting could have cost plenty later. Now it was dealt with in the upstart phase and really no big deal. Some of the stuff i was quite aware i wasn't capable of doing. Like installing the double glasing thermal window. Expensive stuff and mounted incorrectly will give endless shit. So my cousin who has done it for 30 years did that. He also did the plastering as i put new electricals tube in the walls as i ripped every bit of electrics out as it was from 1920 + -. VIR wiring and the main cable lead paper with tar. Touch it at your peril

. Plumbing has to be done by licensed plumbers so the one my company has used for ages did that. It did take nearly 3 years before i could say it was finished. The first 1½ year i was living on a construction site in the room which was least damaged or in a caravan borrowed from a friendly soul. Well that one still here as my barn is dry and he used to park it on his front lawn. Something for something. The main reason being that i had to do that way was, it had to be done as money and time was avaliable.
Off course i could have taken out a bankloan and got contractors in to do it all in 3 months. If i had done it like that my loan repayments to day would be at least treble. Not really an option as i doubt any banker would have done that. I recon i made more money in those 3 years than i earned at work. Nice feeling today. Sitting with a mortgage lower than if i had purchased a 1 bedroomed old apartment in Copenhagen. But every bit of the house i know is up to the best standard.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 12:27:46 PM

LaTigresse

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Yes, a body shop that put a rusted, used rear end of a car that was rust free prior to being rear ended. The new paint began to bubble within two weeks and the computer that was located in trunk. The car was in and out of the body shop 6 times and I still wasn't satisfied. I finally just got rid of it.

How could I have forgotten the contractor that built our garage??? He made a special point to bring us flags to put in the ground so that he would know EXACTLY where we wanted it. After much deliberation and debate, we placed the flags so that the garage would sit at an angle, to avoid drifting snow piling up right outside the doors.

We came home the following day to find a foundation set facing straight west and further away from the house. After a HUGE debate with GD, it was left that way and every winter he curses he did not listen to me, when he has to shovel out 2-4 foot snow drifts.....

I also wanted a steel post building ( bigger building for less money )but nooooooooo, he had to have a traditional suburbia type garage, then threw a tantrum the first winter I stored hay in his fancy smancy suburban garage. Ohhhhhhh welllllll!

Not to mention the project was supposed to have been done in June and it was not completed until November.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/30/2009 12:40:23 PM >

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 12:47:43 PM

BKSir

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Myself personally no, but even I was getting sick of the contractors our neighbours across the street were using. 3 guys building an awning in late spring, beautiful weather, very easy access to the work area, nothing tricky about the job. Should have taken 3 or 4 days, yeah? Maybe a week tops? Hell, I can guarantee I could have done the same exact work in a week by myself. But it took them a month and a half. At that point I wanted to go over and fire them. Incompetence and inefficiency in labour is something I have no patience for though...

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 12:53:28 PM

Hillwilliam

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I'm a real estate broker and get a lot of people raising hell because their agent wasnt any good and all agents are crooks and blah blah blah. First thing I ask them is "Did you pick your agent for Experience and knowledge or from the glamour shot in their advertising?"
That usually gets me a sheepish look and they shut up. Im not saying a good looking person cant do a job, but if someone seems to us a pertty picture as their main qualification, then you get what you deserved.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 12:56:57 PM

Celene

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was just reading a message from someone on here who's had to take the contractors to court.... when I was there I saw what they were up to and suggested exactly that avenue.
incompetent is too kind a word for them -- and they were very well paid
There is no excuse for that kind of "work".

edited to say to Hillwilliam
so does life imitate collarme or collarme imitate life?

So true that you cannot and should not select things that matter to you based on looks alone... but look and then check it out - thoroughly!

< Message edited by Celene -- 11/30/2009 1:02:44 PM >

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 12:59:52 PM

subtlebutterfly

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We're still waiting for the contractor that was going to change windows in the building...........2 years ago...........
he says he's coming next year

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 11/30/2009 5:40:48 PM

DesFIP

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The Man's a high end remodeler. He has horror stories about clients you wouldn't believe.
How much does a bathroom remodel cost? Between 5,000 and 20,000 depending on materials and how much custom work is done.

Inevitably clients complain because they want a $20,000 job done on a budget of under $5,000. And they want it done in half the time it takes to do it right. Home Depot tile is of all different color lots. If you insist on buying it yourself to save money, expect it to look horrible. Discovering this and expecting the contractor to take double or triple the time estimated in order to mix the different lots so it comes out looking good and refusing to pay him for this extra time is not fair.

When you're told to go to a top end tile house, go there. Their tile will be in square footage. Home Depot's incredibly cheap tile is perhaps $0.75 per 4 inch tile. Which makes it more expensive than a $2.50 per square foot tile from the tile store where the tiles are all the same lot and dye color.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 12/1/2009 8:01:49 AM

Termyn8or

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"I am an electrician with the diploma you don't really find worth anything."

I didn't really mean to imply that. It's more that this "Licensed, Bonded & Insured" means pretty much nothing. You obviously know what happens when you wire a GFI circuit backwards. Also it was an addon to old outdated wiring which is against code here. And it's not all that bad even if you do something wrong but the result is right. Did he just not bother to try to identify the neutral or did he not know how ?

Why would he care anyway since he's insured ? IF there were damages IF they are traced to his work IF he can be found IF our lawyers are better than his insurance cos. lawyers we MIGHT collect something. Doesn't sound all that reassuring does it now ?

Upstairs is an apartment, it was wired by licensed bonded and insured people. It's not so bad but I would've done it differently. It is a one BR so six circuits were adequate. So they ran up three runs of 14/3 and went from there. There are two window units (AC) and when they are on there is about forty volts between neutral and ground because they are both on the same side of the 240. I certainly wouldn't do the job that way. In the planning stage I give thought to outlets near the windows and anticipate the possibility that someone might plug in an AC unit. In a kitchen I figure they might use a big microwave, a toaster and an electric skillet at the same time, so I don't want to throw all that on the same circuit. Does everyone think like that ? I doubt it.

I have three electricians in the family and one friend who all went through the apprenticeship at Local 38. They are/were all quite competent of course. But then none of them will touch residential work unless you are family and/or twist their arm. During their schooling they learned many things of course, which are not known to me. I can and will wire a house and have done it more than once. I can get Local 38 stickers that will make the inspectors just walk on by and pass the job summarily.

However, I firmly believe that if someone does a wiring job wrong and it causes death or injury, the last of their problems should be losing their house. They shouldn't need it because they belong in jail.

So I am a decent hack who will do the job right, but I also know my limitations. No matter what I do at work and how complex it gets at times, if someone asked me to wire up an overhead crane in a factory I would turn it down. It's just not something I've ever taken the time to learn. But I can bend and hang pipe and pull wire. Residential is pretty simple and I am well able to plan and execute the whole job, a complete update or even new. This hack has also had his work inspected by the imfamous Ivan the Terrible, one of the toughest inspectors in town. Passed with flying colors.

Like my buddy the bricklayer. That union school has much to teach. He could lay bricks before he had ever set foot at the Local 5. But then what they taught him during those school years in the union was really something. I saw the books.

I don't dismiss the diploma as useless, but I give it less weight than diligence and concern for the quality of one's work. That is something very hard to judge.

T

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 12/1/2009 8:08:11 AM

Aynne88

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Hey Des. Having been the second half of a high end home building business for 20 years I could fill a book with horror stories of clients not paying, wanting change orders for no cost, trying to railroad my subs, wanting to provide their own cheap sub-par materials, the list never ends. Meanwhile, we pay up the ass for payroll, insurances, worker's comp, and they want to compare my bid to the idiot with a pickup truck, a toolbox, and no insurance or overhead. The idiocy of the general public is mindboggling. I am grateful for the few wonderful clients that we get, but lately they have been in the huge minority. Hopefully the new year will bring some better propects. It's been a long year.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 12/1/2009 8:29:28 AM

rockspider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Yes, a body shop that put a rusted, used rear end of a car that was rust free prior to being rear ended. The new paint began to bubble within two weeks and the computer that was located in trunk. The car was in and out of the body shop 6 times and I still wasn't satisfied. I finally just got rid of it.

How could I have forgotten the contractor that built our garage??? He made a special point to bring us flags to put in the ground so that he would know EXACTLY where we wanted it. After much deliberation and debate, we placed the flags so that the garage would sit at an angle, to avoid drifting snow piling up right outside the doors.

We came home the following day to find a foundation set facing straight west and further away from the house. After a HUGE debate with GD, it was left that way and every winter he curses he did not listen to me, when he has to shovel out 2-4 foot snow drifts..... I also wanted a steel post building ( bigger building for less money )but nooooooooo, he had to have a traditional suburbia type garage, then threw a tantrum the first winter I stored hay in his fancy smancy suburban garage. Ohhhhhhh welllllll!

Not to mention the project was supposed to have been done in June and it was not completed until November.

Iowa must be the first place i have heard where you can put a garage up without submitting plans, giving all details, to the local authorities. You simply don't put a spade in the ground before those has been returned from the building inspectors office with an aproval certificate.

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RE: Have you ever had any problems with any service peo... - 12/3/2009 8:59:50 AM

Termyn8or

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rock, what you said brings up alot of things. First of all it is my property and I'll have on it what I want, whether it is a treehouse, outhouse, whatever. But there are other factors. Being me, I know how to do things and how to do them right, but what if I didn't and had to hire someone to do the job ? What's more what if I decided to rent the place out ?

The answer lies somewhere between the rock and the hard place.

Reminds me of my first interlude with Ivan the Terrible, whom I did not find terrible at all. In fact I gained respect for him for doing his job right. As an inspector, or most people with a brain he does not want to see babies burnt to death in their crib. Whatever trouble he caused for electrical contractors is fine with me, they are supposed to know their job.

I remember when I pointed out to him a 4X4 in the basement, a support, which had #12 THHN stapled to it like phone wires running to an outlet. I asked him "Now who does something like that ?". He replied "A handyman". Not very handy IMO. As an electrician, some of the things I saw in that house would put hair on your chest, curl it and take it off all in one fell swoop.

So, if I don't know the job and hire someone to do it, how can I protect myself ? Well some say by making sure contractors are operating above board, but that doesn't work.

How can anyone ? Take your car into the mechanic's and listen to the mumbo jumbo. Although I know that mumbo jumbo many don't. How do I know I need a whole transmission when all I really need is a second gear actuator solenoid ? How would someone know their TV needs a picture tube and not just a fuse ? How does someone know their chimney has been rebuilt instead of just tuckpointed ? How does someone know the depth of the cement in their driveway ?

The list goes on. But how do we know ? In any case, if one cannot do the work correctly themselves, how can they judge ?

That list is only the beginning. An exterminator says he must tear out a wall to accomplish his job, an auto mechanic says he needs to tear the top end of your engine down for further diagnosis, the furnace Man says you need a new compressor. Costly mistakes, if they are mistakes. And they could be scams.

Have you ever changed a hot water tank at midnight ? I have, there is money in that. The permit offices are closed, the people need to take a shower in the morning. What do you do ? In this case the homeowner knew about all this and made us dispose of the old tank because if someone sees it the city will be on his ass. In this same community BTW someone got a visit from the cops because someone called them. The reason ? Because they had a jetski in their own driveway !

Code can be made so strict that you need a permit to flush the toilet. That invites selective enforcement. Code can be broken and I can handle them if they come, or consider if there were no code, what is to stop abuse, scamming, incompetence ?

Actually the system in place doesn't work anyway. It's not just buying off inspectors, there is also the issue on competence and diligence on their part. And inspectors in urban areas are frequently overloaded with work. So they go around and even without bribes will quickly inspect and pass work done by contractors who are presumably paying taxes, while the poor schmuck who studied and learned how to do the job right waits for an approval with his porch up on stilts until next November.

Just like anything in life it seems, it all adds up to a big mess. Why is that ?

T

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