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Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/27/2009 10:41:59 PM   
AnimusRex


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Status: offline 		Compassionate Conservatism at Work

"At a town hall held by Rep. Dan Lipinski (D-Ill.) on Nov. 14,, Dan and Midge Hough spoke about how they believed the death of their daughter-in-law and her unborn child were caused, in part, by a lack of health insurance. Twenty-four-year old Jennifer was uninsured. According to her in-laws, she was not receiving regular prenatal care and was not properly treated when she got sick. She ended up in an emergency room with double pneumonia that developed into septic shock, had a heart attack, a brain bleed and a stroke. The baby died and Jennifer died a few weeks later.

Midge Hough was heckled by anti-reform crowd members. "You can laugh at me, that's okay," she said, crying. "But I lost two people, and I know you think that's funny, that's okay.""
local Tea Party organizer falsely claimed that the couple had made up the story and tried to justify the town hall behavior, according to the Southtown Star.

Catherina Wojtowicz, of Chicago's Mount Greenwood community, an organizer for a Tea Party splinter group, Chicago Tea Party Patriots, falsely claimed that the Houghs fabricated their story. In an e-mail, she called them operatives of President Barack Obama who "go from event to event and (cry) the same story."

The audience, Wojtowicz later explained, was exasperated by stories of isolated tragedies that cloud debate over the health care bill itself.
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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/27/2009 10:45:34 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
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Damn, the conservatives are getting lazy.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/27/2009 11:30:24 PM   
chiaThePet


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Sensationalistic headline which did not match the video.

I am sorry for the families loss, it is tragic and reaffirms the need for health care overhaul.

Both sides need to temper their approach.

chia* (the pet)


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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/27/2009 11:36:36 PM   
BKSir


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Status: offline 		I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/27/2009 11:41:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.


thousands of times every day? stick to the burgers and lay off the pipe.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 1:09:10 AM   
Hierodule


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Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		  C'mon now don't you see??? Obviously god didn't want that baby to live. Its our duty to save the lives of the ones that are going to be aborted, not the ones whose mothers are sick and in desperate need of care...

Right to life my ass.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
 Twenty-four-year old Jennifer was uninsured. According to her in-laws, she was not receiving regular prenatal care and was not properly treated when she got sick. She ended up in an emergency room with double pneumonia that developed into septic shock, had a heart attack, a brain bleed and a stroke. The baby died and Jennifer died a few weeks later.


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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 1:38:17 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


Sensationalistic headline which did not match the video.



Are you saying they were not heckling and laughing?

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 4:48:15 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.


thousands of times every day? stick to the burgers and lay off the pipe.


How many is too many, willbe? Come on, give me a number. How many lives lost is too many?

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 6:22:03 AM   
HunterS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.


thousands of times every day? stick to the burgers and lay off the pipe.


Is it your position that everyone with whom you disagree is a drug addict?

H.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 7:25:13 AM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


Sensationalistic headline which did not match the video.



Are you saying they were not heckling and laughing?



No, I didn't say it, I wrote it.

Watch the video, the "hostile mob of hooligans" becomes quite silent when the woman
begins to speak and tell her story. At one point, something is said, whether a question
or a statement, to automatically label it as heckling should be taken with caution as the
author of the article is advancing their own agenda also. She apparently hears someone
laugh toward the end, I could not distinguish a laugh, and if there was, we do not know
to what any laughter was directed. Then a still shot of a man smiling with many around
him looking the opposite direction is spliced into the video for that added effect. Again,
the author of this article has their own agenda to advance. If someone did laugh at the
speaker or her story, shame on them, but I take what both sides say and do with a fair
amount of caution. I'll write it again, sensationalistic headline which did not match the video.

chia* (the pet)

< Message edited by chiaThePet -- 11/28/2009 7:26:43 AM >

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 7:30:35 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Fair enough, but does that mean you regard the tea parties as pointless wastes of time whose attendance was massively exaggerated by a news network with an ideological axe to grind as well?

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 7:57:07 AM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Fair enough, but does that mean you regard the tea parties as pointless wastes of time whose attendance was massively exaggerated by a news network with an ideological axe to grind as well?


I think of it this way. It's not a one way street on which we travel, my Momma told me to
look both ways before stepping into the street, otherwise you might end up with tire tracks
down your back. The subject here is the video and accompanying story. Agenda again.
To answer your question however, there have been many "tea parties" for many reasons.
To completely tell all those involved their views are a pointless waste of time is in itself
a waste of time. We would all appreciate our voices being heard. If a news network
exaggerates to advance their agenda, then they should be called on it. Or as we like
to say here at the collarme hive, "Let me tell you a story about the Fox and the Hounds"

chia* (the pet)


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Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 8:14:55 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Yeah, I have to agree, that the video is so edited, it's impossible to tell what happened.

All there is, is a woman saying someone is laughing, then a cut away to some dude, in a still shot, that I guess we are supposed to assume is laughing at the death.

Anyway, it could be true, it might be exaggeration, it may not be as proposed, the video doesn't appear to be anything but splices. I'd need to see the unedited footage. I'm sure it exists.

And it didn't appear it was the whole audience laughing from the still shot, but rather one dude. So, one dude laughing in a still shot, is evidence now.  Notice she said, YOU, as in one person, she didn't say YOU GUYS, Or ALL of YOU.


However, whichever, way the story happened in reality,  these stories of tragedy, without any background, don't help the debate.

I live in Illinois, and we do have programs for pregnant women. So, is this a case caused by "lack of insurance", "lack of education", "lack of utilizing available services", "lack of responsibility". I don't know.

The story itself, gives no evidence of failure though, as it states little back story.







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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 8:33:15 AM   
Sanity


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They must be unbelievably backwards in Chicago. Do they still get around in stagecoaches there, fighting off Indians wherever they go? Do they start fires by rubbing sticks together there?

Here in Idaho we're far more advanced than that. We use state and federal programs which aggressively seek out pregnant women who may be in need of prenatal care and make sure that they have all the prenatal care and education they could possibly need in order to deliver healthy babies. We have free clinics here that serve anyone based on a sliding scale, and low income people don't pay anything at all.




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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 8:48:33 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.


thousands of times every day? stick to the burgers and lay off the pipe.


How many is too many, willbe? Come on, give me a number. How many lives lost is too many?



It dependsl on the cost and how many are actually preventible. Health care, besides being a service subject to supply and demand, is also subject to the exponential costs for improving "quality control". If improving to 95% "quality" costs $X, each incremental % increases that cost by 2-4x.

So you tell me, how much $ is too much $?

What are the facts behind this family? Why didnt the daughter have insurance coverage? Why didn't she seek out free or very low cost pre-natal care?

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/28/2009 8:53:13 AM >

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 8:49:44 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

I don't know if I'd call them "isolated tragedies" as they're very common and happen hundreds if not thousands of times every day across the nation.  I know of many of these myself, personally.  Unfortunately I haven't the money to help pay their doctor bills, or I'd send them.  I do, however, have enough to pay a little bit higher taxes each month, and would be glad to do so if that's what it takes.  The likely raise in taxes that health care would really cost would cut me back from... uh... well, I might just have to not go and get a burger a couple times each month.  Probably better for me that way anyway.


thousands of times every day? stick to the burgers and lay off the pipe.


Is it your position that everyone with whom you disagree is a drug addict?

H.


No, just those that are clearly delusional. That is a far more likely explanation than that they are sober but insane.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 9:17:28 AM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		Well in my neck of the woods (gleaned from the sparce info here) the case would have been headline news on any major daily newspaper. The nationwide government run TV news would have carried it and eventually the minister of Health would have been hauled over the coals by the journalists. Lots of calls for his resignation, which wouldn't happen, but the goverment would take a stinging whack in the opinionpols. A 200k + - insurance pay out would have been given to the bereaved family.

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RE: Compassionate Conservatism at work - 11/28/2009 10:12:47 AM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		 IL has the IHW (Il healthy women) project. But if you are married and ,as a couple, you make more than $2,428 a month you don't qualify.  When I was married we made 2500 neither of us had insurance. I used to joke with my husband that we couldn't have a baby because it would cost more than we made in a year. Ironically,  I would have been covered if we already had a kid. Our income was considered low for a three person household but not two. Now that I am single, I qualify.

How do they aggressively seek out women in Idaho? I mean we have bus stop ads here. They don't go door to door looking for pregos.
I tried to search your state program. All I found was this:
Idaho Women's Health Check
What does it cover? · Annual clinical breast examination (CBE); · Annual mammogram; · Annual Pap test: After three consecutive normal  Pap tests, Women’s   Health Check will cover one Pap test every three years; and · Diagnostic services, if needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


They must be unbelievably backwards in Chicago. Do they still get around in stagecoaches there, fighting off Indians wherever they go? Do they start fires by rubbing sticks together there?

Here in Idaho we're far more advanced than that. We use state and federal programs which aggressively seek out pregnant women who may be in need of prenatal care and make sure that they have all the prenatal care and education they could possibly need in order to deliver healthy babies. We have free clinics here that serve anyone based on a sliding scale, and low income people don't pay anything at all.





< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/28/2009 10:15:41 AM >

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