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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 2:08:23 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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Well, you're never ruffled. So you don't count!

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 2:27:06 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doublesweetness

No person has arrived at the possiblity of gods through thought, reason or evidence,

So you know all people, and all of thier experiences?

Father? ... is that you?

Kim

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 2:31:41 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Well, you're never ruffled. So you don't count!

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 5:47:49 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I ain't ruffled.

She has points. She ignores other points, though.

Very reminiscent of zealots who know it all and ignore what they do not know at all.

I am reminded of the old saying: it takes one to know one, Rule.
Your first reaction was kinder and more accurate. She made some good points.
She was quite thorough and addressed a number of different people with wit and a bit of wisdom.
And what is your response?

You refer to her as a zealot.

Hardly a worthy comment from an intelligent person as yourself, Rule. Surely, you can do better.
Very disappointed in you. Perhaps, I misjudged your intellect.

Vincent

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/2/2009 5:49:22 PM >

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 5:59:20 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Only a coward "blocks." Tazzygirl has clearly defined herself. So, whoever her source of information please carry this to her..... cowardly behavior. Does not have the courage to stand, but runs away. How pathetic.

vincent

I've got to disagree with you on this. There are people such as Rule that I have blocked and it certainly isn't out of cowardess.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 6:02:51 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Only a coward "blocks." Tazzygirl has clearly defined herself. So, whoever her source of information please carry this to her..... cowardly behavior. Does not have the courage to stand, but runs away. How pathetic.

vincent

I've got to disagree with you on this. There are people such as Rule that I have blocked and it certainly isn't out of cowardess.

I accept the exception. But I stand by the particular case I spoke of.

Vincent

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 6:09:34 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML\

I am reminded of the old saying: it takes one to know one, Rule.
Your first reaction was kinder and more accurate. She made some good points.
She was quite thorough and addressed a number of different people with wit and a bit of wisdom.

I think the "wit and wisdom" and the relatively few good points got lost somewhere between where they completely misstated and/or misrepresented many of our beliefs, and lumped us all into one category and called us all ignorant, deluded fools. That was one of the most condescending and dogmatic posts I've read here in a long time, and whomever wrote it is as much of a zealot as any of the people they are challenging. In most cases, much more so. I seldom see any believer here making as many sweeping assumptions and misrepresentations as they did. That was a zealot, pure and simple.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 6:43:38 PM

switch2please

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doublesweetness: I stated that you can't have a god without a universe.
You stated that you can't have a god without people. Occam's razor. I applaud your intellect.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 9:29:23 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML\

I am reminded of the old saying: it takes one to know one, Rule.
Your first reaction was kinder and more accurate. She made some good points.
She was quite thorough and addressed a number of different people with wit and a bit of wisdom.

I think the "wit and wisdom" and the relatively few good points got lost somewhere between where they completely misstated and/or misrepresented many of our beliefs, and lumped us all into one category and called us all ignorant, deluded fools. That was one of the most condescending and dogmatic posts I've read here in a long time, and whomever wrote it is as much of a zealot as any of the people they are challenging. In most cases, much more so. I seldom see any believer here making as many sweeping assumptions and misrepresentations as they did. That was a zealot, pure and simple.

I seem to remember you saying that before. So, you have chosen sides. And that gives you license to call someone a zealot? Perhaps you would be more honorable to engage in the debate rather than call names.

Vincent

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 9:34:45 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I seem to remember you saying that before. So, you have chosen sides. And that gives you license to call someone a zealot? Perhaps you would be more honorable to engage in the debate rather than call names.

So you're calling him dishonorable?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/2/2009 9:48:48 PM >

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 10:20:13 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I seem to remember you saying that before. So, you have chosen sides.

We all choose sides every time we enter a debate. Some people only choose once, and stick with that side on every issue, no matter what position it requires them to take. And no; that wasn't a swipe at you - we both see posters like that every day here; no need to name names. But me, I'm closer to the other end of the spectrum. I pick a somewhat different side on almost every single issue, depending upon what feels like the right side to be on. I criticize Obama as much as I lambasted Bush. I'm as vehemently anti-capital punishment as I am pro-gun ownership. I'm for exterminating every member of al Qaeda we can locate, and I despise Bush for invading Iraq. I'm passionately, almost rabidly anti-religion, and for many of the reasons that doublesweetness is; yet deeply spiritual and more than a little prickly about being called an ignorant fool for that. I'm just a peculiarity on many levels, I'm the first to admit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
And that gives you license to call someone a zealot?

Yes. It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; I have no qualms about labeling it a duck. By their own words ye shall know them....

Anyway, what's the big deal? Since when is "zealot" such a slur? Granted, it's not exactly a compliment, but not necessarily an insult either. It's simply a descriptive term. One who argues with zeal, by one definition. Another would be "fanatic," but even that's not necessarily an insult. That was an entirely appropriate term under the circumstances, and I've got no problem with having used it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Perhaps you would be more honorable to engage in the debate rather than call names.

I did.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 10:21:32 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I seem to remember you saying that before. So, you have chosen sides. And that gives you license to call someone a zealot? Perhaps you would be more honorable to engage in the debate rather than call names.

So you're calling him dishonorable?

K.

You've got a devilish side to you, you know that?

And to be clear, I wasn't calling you a name! Just in case anyone was preparing to pounce...

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 12/2/2009 10:22:39 PM >

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 10:45:52 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

You've got a devilish side to you, you know that?

Yeah, I've always had a thing for low-hanging fruit.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/2/2009 10:46:06 PM >

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/2/2009 11:48:08 PM

Brain

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Wow, before this would be blasphemy but now I guess anything (new tricks) to stay relevant.

Church brings football to Sunday service

EAST ORANGE, New Jersey - The Rev. Dwight Gill figures if there is one thing that will bring more men to church, it’s football. So Sunday at New Hope Baptist Church of East Orange, NFL didn’t stand for National Football League, but rather for New Found Life - as in the church’s annual NFL service and celebration. Between worshipful songs of praise, the congregants broke out in a stadium wave, briefly standing and throwing their arms in the air. A tailgate party, including sandwiches, hot dogs and chips, followed the music-filled service.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/east_orange_church_brings_foot.html

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 12:53:05 AM

Brain

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Get in a religious persons mind, so God believes what they believe.

Believers' inferences about God's beliefs are uniquely egocentric

Religious people tend to use their own beliefs as a guide in thinking about what God believes, but are less constrained when reasoning about other people's beliefs, according to a new study.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091130151321.htm

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 4:05:47 AM

tazzygirl

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Hardly new tricks, Brain.

Rev. Dwight Gill and a choir lead the New Hope Baptist Church in its 4th annual "NFL Sunday Football Service."

From your source.

Good news for church-going football fans! Roger Goodell, the NFL Commissioner, has ordained that church members can view the Super Bowl in — where else? — church. Click here for the WaPo story.

This marks a change of course for the league which, until now, had a restriction that limited TV screens to 55″ at public viewings, except at venues like bars and restaurants that regularly broadcast sporting events. According to this pre-2008 Super Bowl story in the WSJ, airing the big game at events which promote a message, even a religious message, was verboten. Reportedly, in past years NFL lawyers had sent out cease-and-desist letters, and hired undercover investigators to dress as fans and attend parties at churches, movie theaters, casinos and even the New England Aquarium.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/02/21/nfl-let-them-watch-football-in-church/?mod=googlenews_wsj

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 4:31:24 AM

eyesopened

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~ Fast reply

I am supposed to accept that I am delusional. No one will tell me how my delusions are harmful to anyone, including myself. I am in total agreement with evidence. Facts are facts. Still there is no factual evidence that god(s) as I experience It, does not exist. Creation -v- Evolution? I don't have a dog in that fight.

It is equally delusional to think that a world without personal belief in some great Spirit is "a plague" or that it is responsible for more human suffering than secular ills of greed, hatred, and lust for power. That experiment failed in Russia, China, and North Korea.

Here are some facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll

It is also a delsion to believe that Science and personal belief in some great Spirit are in opposition to one another. Here are some facts:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24,0,7022683.story
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1018_041018_science_religion_2.html
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html

Francis S. Collins, Director of the Human Genome Project said this:
"I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 6:38:39 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hardly new tricks, Brain.

Rev. Dwight Gill and a choir lead the New Hope Baptist Church in its 4th annual "NFL Sunday Football Service."

From your source.

Good news for church-going football fans! Roger Goodell, the NFL Commissioner, has ordained that church members can view the Super Bowl in — where else? — church. Click here for the WaPo story.

This marks a change of course for the league which, until now, had a restriction that limited TV screens to 55″ at public viewings, except at venues like bars and restaurants that regularly broadcast sporting events. According to this pre-2008 Super Bowl story in the WSJ, airing the big game at events which promote a message, even a religious message, was verboten. Reportedly, in past years NFL lawyers had sent out cease-and-desist letters, and hired undercover investigators to dress as fans and attend parties at churches, movie theaters, casinos and even the New England Aquarium.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/02/21/nfl-let-them-watch-football-in-church/?mod=googlenews_wsj

Hell, I used to attend some of the polka masses around here every so often and I aint even catholic. Nor do I believe in the god of the bible, but I do believe in accordians.

Ron

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 9:48:53 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
Church brings football to Sunday service

So? For the Mid-American Indians the ball game was a spiritual expression. Surpisingly, the leader of the winning team was afterwards decapitated as highest religious honor.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 12/3/2009 10:17:55 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Your first reaction was kinder and more accurate. She made some good points.

Yes, within limits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
She was quite thorough and addressed a number of different people with wit and a bit of wisdom.
And what is your response?

I responded with wisdom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You refer to her as a zealot.

Well, actually I did not. That merely is your flawed interpretation.
Also, I see that TDP already addressed this issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Hardly a worthy comment from an intelligent person as yourself, Rule. Surely, you can do better.
Very disappointed in you. Perhaps, I misjudged your intellect.

I am thoroughly confused. If I recall correctly, Hierodule implied that I am not intelligent and now you say that I am. What am I? What do you all think?

Upon reconsideration I have resolved this conflict: I am Rule, supergenius with a rather low IQ, so whether or not I am intelligent is not truly relevant.

< Message edited by Rule -- 12/3/2009 10:23:23 AM >

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