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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:16:48 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
What is it about our brains that we need to have some God delusion?

I often ponder this same question when reading political threads.

Kim

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:41:27 PM

switch2please

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There was some debate about my usage of 'belief'...
When I state that I absolutely believe in evolution, I mean that I personally have not proved the theory of evolution - it is not fact, it is just a theory, there is always another option - but from what I've read, it makes the most sense. If I were to have faith in one theory in the creationism vs. evolutionism debate, I have faith in evolution. I've yet to see either of these viewpoints proved conclusively beyond a doubt, but I choose to believe in evolutionism. 'Faith' and 'belief' can be used out of the context of religion, and are necessary when logic (esp. quasi-quantum physics logic) proves only that an abstract cannot be proved, or disproved. The 'absolute' states how certain and secure I am in my belief, though it's as silly as using 'always' or 'never' because nothing is this certain.
I am not a purple donkey's ass. By this, I mean I am relatively certain that I am not, I strongly believe that I am in fact a whole human female of normal pigmentation. The belief in 'I am' should be implied. From Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" we can extrapolate to (source unknown, but it's a common phrase) "seeing is believing" - but there is no definitive proof beyond visual stimuli. You may think I'm off my rocker, but I disagree - there is no rocker.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:42:28 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The factual evidence for evolution is overwhelming....

I don't recall saying it wasn't, but feel free to link the post for me. In the meantime, we'll deal with your memory problem first. This is the post you are (supposed to be) responding to:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think religion would be better off coming clean and just telling people the truth, which is that there is no God.

Science knows this? Or just you?

Please provide the details in your answer. Thank you.

In my opinion, if you are contending that science has disproved the existence of God, then you have absolutely no idea what science is, or what it does. But hey, I'm open minded. Feel free to post a link to the experiment. I'd love to see how they did it.

K.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:45:18 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
What is it about our brains that we need to have some God delusion?

I often ponder this same question when reading political threads.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:45:27 PM

switch2please

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And no, dinosaurs never coexisted with humans. That's just silly.
(And in case anyone's interested, new research has re-categorized T.Rex as primarily a scavenger, rather than a predator. I have a serious nerd-crush on dinosaurs.)

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:47:55 PM

mnottertail

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I can only see the picture of you in black and white, so I cannot attest with any certainty that you are not a purple donkeys ass, but I have seen donkeys asses throughout my lifetime, and your ass bears no resemblence to my asses.

Hope this helps you sort it out somehow.

Ron

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 2:52:15 PM

switch2please

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I can only see the picture of you in black and white, so I cannot attest with any certainty that you are not a purple donkeys ass, but I have seen donkeys asses throughout my lifetime, and your ass bears no resemblence to my asses.

Hope this helps you sort it out somehow.

Ron

Haha thanks

I'm reminded of a French painter (Magritte, I think?) who painted a pipe with a caption "this is not a pipe" - caused an uproar, people were offended and confused. His response? It's not a pipe. It's just a picture of a pipe.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 3:57:31 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

There was some debate about my usage of 'belief'...
When I state that I absolutely believe in evolution, I mean that I personally have not proved the theory of evolution - it is not fact, it is just a theory, there is always another option - but from what I've read, it makes the most sense. If I were to have faith in one theory in the creationism vs. evolutionism debate, I have faith in evolution. I've yet to see either of these viewpoints proved conclusively beyond a doubt, but I choose to believe in evolutionism.

I sympathize with your point of view but I think you are stating a misconception about what constitutes a Scientific Theory. In the scientific method a theory is never proven. It is accepted to a degree of probability based upon the observations and data gathered and measured. Inferences are drawn and peer-reviewed and challenged. Whatever theory you are referring to is never static. It is always open to either adjustment or rejection pending new information or data that do not support it. No need to prove the theory of evolution. Don't let anyone pull that rhetorical gambit on you. The present collection of data from geology, genetics, microbe mutation, etc is pretty convincing.... until some data comes along to suggest otherwise.

The Creationists do not offer any positive new data. Creationism is a "science of the gaps." You see, they say, here's a missing link, there's a missing link, so the theory must be wrong. They refuse to understand or admit that soft tissue fossils are very rare due to decomposition. They reject or refuse to take into account the 5 billion years of time involved in the long algorithmic process of change.

Don't be fooled. When push comes to shove they reach for a supernatural skyhook. It is just theology camouflaged.

vincent

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/29/2009 4:06:34 PM >

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:13:52 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Of course they know it. These guys are real scientists, and they're too smart to waste their time debating people of faith.

You mean they don't go on the internet and start thread after thread trying to prove their theories? WOW, whoda thunkit. I can think of a few people who I wish would take that attitude, but then again I get a real laugh out of some of the posts, so maybe not.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:25:20 PM

EbonyWood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

Haha thanks I'm reminded of a French painter (Magritte, I think?) who painted a pipe with a caption "this is not a pipe" - caused an uproar, people were offended and confused. His response? It's not a pipe. It's just a picture of a pipe.

It WAS Margritte, but he was Belgian.

Off topic and hairsplitting - but there may be Belgians watching...

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:32:38 PM

MasterDonfromPA

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My Personal Beliefs Feel there is No major issues with The debate of creationism and evolution, I asked Myself How Long is a "day" to a being that is Timeless and eternal, The creator could have evolved creatures over Millions of years and when He was satisfied Said, "there we go thats a good days work" and took a break

The Problems I see with this sort of Debate is Everyone is so sure they are right, they won't even consider another point of view, Seems a tremendous waste of supposed Intelligence.........

Oh Well, to each their Own I guess

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It RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:43:41 PM

Brain

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I said before somewhere, this thread or another thread, I didn't expect it to happen for 1000 years. But it is still frustrating especially because this is, at least for me, so obvious.

Somebody said something about hubris before implying my views are perhaps arrogant and all I can say is, for me it's not arrogance, but it is confidence in the facts like Charles Darwin must have had an enormous amount of confidence to bring forward his revolutionary ideas about natural selection and evolution.

I'm confident these professors of astronomy and physics working on these matters today will get to the bottom of it all.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:52:01 PM

Brain

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The Creator you said, like where is this guy? When you pray to him give him a message for me and tell him I want to drop dead right now. Like anythings going to happen to me.

God? Yeah right. I'm confident nothing will happen to me because your Creator is a fantasy in your brain.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:56:53 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

When you pray to him give him a message for me and tell him I want to drop dead right now.

That's not how it works. You have to do it yourself, and you have to really mean it; no half-assed shit.

Kim

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 4:59:19 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The Creator you said, like where is this guy? When you pray to him give him a message for me and tell him I want to drop dead right now. Like anythings going to happen to me.

God? Yeah right. I'm confident nothing will happen to me because your Creator is a fantasy in your brain.

Are you absolutely sure you’re not a fanatic?

Butch

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 5:06:29 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDonfromPA

My Personal Beliefs Feel there is No major issues with The debate of creationism and evolution, I asked Myself How Long is a "day" to a being that is Timeless and eternal, The creator could have evolved creatures over Millions of years and when He was satisfied Said, "there we go thats a good days work" and took a break
The Problems I see with this sort of Debate is Everyone is so sure they are right, they won't even consider another point of view, Seems a tremendous waste of supposed Intelligence.........

Oh Well, to each their Own I guess

No, not a waste of intelligence at all. It is good for people to debate civilly with one another. I am thankful for this Forum

Your line of reasoning is one taken frequently by philosophers and theologians who try to reconcile what seems to be irreconcilable. There seems to be one glaring fault in your position that god is satisfied. You imply that evolution has ended; the human species is the final triumphant product. Very theological, I think.

Your implication ignores Darwin's explanation of evolution. There is an interplay between genetic variation within a species and change in the environment. This concept is called Adaptation.

There is great variation within the human gene pool and the environment is hardly static. It is not beyond the realm of possibility to speculate that there are now present in the human gene pool certain genes that will prove advantageous in future environments. Unfortunately, we cannot go in search of them because their emergence will occur over long periods of time from interplay with changing environment. Someday, someone will look back and say "see MasterDon, evolution continues."

Oh, and what was that whole dinosaur wipeout? Just a mistake? A big god Ooooops?

So, I say to the theists, nice try guys, but no cigar.

Vincent

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 6:03:43 PM

Brain

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What is really amazing to me is that I have to prove God doesn't exist and religious people who have the God delusion don't have to do anything. Why don't they prove to me that God exists? Of course nobody can do that because there is no such thing as a man in the sky who created us and knows everything we do 24 hours a day.

You said,' science knows this?' And the answer is yes they do

There is not one link I can point to where they did an experiment and proved the nonexistence of God.

There is a meeting that I saw on the Internet however, where all of the major scientists involved in studying this matter were present and they found people's belief in God amusing. I think I might have the video bookmarked but it will take time to go through all my bookmarks to find it that is, if I did bookmark it.

I would also like to add that they will not do such an 'experiment' because they are not interested in attracting attention from religious wing nuts, like Sarah, who would demand the government stop funding their work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The factual evidence for evolution is overwhelming....

I don't recall saying it wasn't, but feel free to link the post for me. In the meantime, we'll deal with your memory problem first. This is the post you are (supposed to be) responding to:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think religion would be better off coming clean and just telling people the truth, which is that there is no God.

Science knows this? Or just you?

Please provide the details in your answer. Thank you.

In my opinion, if you are contending that science has disproved the existence of God, then you have absolutely no idea what science is, or what it does. But hey, I'm open minded. Feel free to post a link to the experiment. I'd love to see how they did it.

K.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 6:14:11 PM

Brain

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Why don't you do it? Next time you pray to your Creator tell him I want to drop dead right now. I'm not saying that because I'm a fanatic, I'm saying that because I know nothings going to happen because I'm 100% positive there is no such thing as God. God is a fantasy in people's brains, like Karl Marx said, ' the opium of the masses.' If you want to distract from me telling the truth by calling me a fanatic or using the word hubris to imply I'm arrrogant like someone else did then go ahead and do so. I'm sure it's nothing compared to all the crap Charles Darwin went through.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The Creator you said, like where is this guy? When you pray to him give him a message for me and tell him I want to drop dead right now. Like anythings going to happen to me.

God? Yeah right. I'm confident nothing will happen to me because your Creator is a fantasy in your brain.

Are you absolutely sure you’re not a fanatic?

Butch

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 6:16:10 PM

willbeurdaddy

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There is also great misunderstanding/manipulation surrounding "proof of non-existence", creating an impossible hurdle of "absolute certainty of non-existence". As someone pointed out in either this or the climate thread, theories are never "proven to absolute certainty". All that can be said is that the preponderence of evidence supports the theory, and that there are no known counter-examples.

By that standard the theory that there is no god HAS been proven. Despite millions of people searching for evidence for 100s of years there is simply no evidence of the existence of god..and lack of evidence of existence despite that effort IS a preponderence of evidence of non-existence.

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RE: The puzzle of life - science versus creationism - 11/29/2009 6:16:22 PM

Brain

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You just like being annoying, don't you? Kind of like Dennis the Menace.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Of course they know it. These guys are real scientists, and they're too smart to waste their time debating people of faith.

You mean they don't go on the internet and start thread after thread trying to prove their theories? WOW, whoda thunkit. I can think of a few people who I wish would take that attitude, but then again I get a real laugh out of some of the posts, so maybe not.